So how about the Michael Jackson thing?

[Super 8]

I haven't followed this case at all, and I know many of you are probably irritated that it's even news, but it is entertainment news. And Jackson has certainly done his part to keep it entertaining.

 

The guy apparently can't just show up in a suit and tie. He's got to have some extravagant outfit on, so we all know that he's someone special.

 

On the daily show, they did a clip of him hobbling into court with his back injury....hardly able to walk. Then, one of his fans shouts his name, and he suddenly straightens up, twists around and start waving.

 

I really think MJ is a person obsessed with his own myth.

 

I find it odd that there is even a question about whether he is guilty or not. Okay, like I said, I haven't followed the courtroom drama. But think about it.... If he were sleeping with little girls in his bed instead of little boys, would we even be having this discussion???

 

The whole thing is just bizzare. Jackson is a bizzare person.

 

I don't think there is any question that Jackson is a pedophile.

 

But enough of what I think. I'm more interested in what you guys think.

 

I seriously doubt "The Bruce" will be entering this thread, for obvious reasons, and I understand that. But if he wanted to come in and vouche for MJ's character, I would be more than willing to listen.

What I think about MJ doesn't matter....what I think could be wrong.

 

I'd hate to see an innocent man get put away just because a situation looks bad. But if he's guilty, I hope they break his balls, for using his status to take advantage of others.

 

Thoughts?

Opinions?

[Bill Roberts]

The only person that knows if Michael is guilty is Michael.

 

As far as I am concerned, I like Michael, always have and always will.

 

When people reach the level of fame as Michael has, everyone and their sister is gunning for him. Becomes a money thing.

 

I personally believe that Michael, in his mind, feels that nothing he has done is other than the childrens best wishes. I cannot ever believe that Michael would ever force himself on anyone...ever.

 

Right or wrong in the courts eyes, publics eyes or any other eyes, you have someone that really has nothing to gain and everything to lose here.

 

I stand by Michael 100%. Like it or not.

 

Flame me, flame others..but Michael is a very unique person with unique skills and in my heart, there is no way he would want to cause ANYBODY any harm, ever.

 

Just my personal observance and yes, I have met him.

I may be biased...but I believe what I believe.

 

That is my heart and I am sticking to it.

[John Sayers]

I'm with you Bill

 

cheers

john

[popstar]

I don't believe that Michael is a pedophile. I believe that he's a child trapped in an adult body. Like Bill said, the only one who knows if he's truly guilty of the accusations is Michael. But I don't think pedophilia is his thing.

 

poPsTAr

[Henchman]

Originally posted by popstar:

I don't believe that Michael is a pedophile. I believe that he's a child trapped in an adult body. Like Bill said, the only one who knows if he's truly guilty of the accusations is Michael. But I don't think pedophilia is his thing.

 

poPsTAr

I'm not saying he is guilty or not guilty.

But, would you feel the same way if it was someone who isn't famous, exhibniting the same behaviour?

[Alndln]

Originally posted by Super 8:

The guy apparently can't just show up in a suit and tie. He's got to have some extravagant outfit on

Well,he hasn't had a video or TV special in a while so I guess this will have to suffice.

[TrancedelicBlues]

I just don't know for sure...

 

But my impression is that we've got a prosecutor with a vendetta and a plaintiff out to make a big score...

 

It's easy to tell lies in the media--especially the internet, but also the traditional media--you don't have to look anyone personally in the eye...

[nickthepick]

Diane Diamond!! Whats up with her? She seems to be on a mission to nail MJ. I forget who she's reporting for. So much for unbiased reporting.

[Sergievsky]

Originally posted by Bill Roberts:

The only person that knows if Michael is guilty is Michael....

Uh, the kids know too. I'd personally take the word of an innocent child over someone who needs to constantly surgically alter his face, change his skin color, marry for her fathers assets, and someone who dangles his own child outside the window of a building. So you're telling me someone like that wouldn't take advantage of a person totally in awe of him sleeping in his bed?

 

And BTW, I always liked his music, and thought he had a rockin' voice as a kid, and really think he's a talented artist. But this guy is psychologically disturbed, and is a danger to children.

[LiveMusic]

He is one of the most bizarre humans alive. But I have always thought that it's like someone said above, he is a kid trapped in an adult body. But I don't think he's a pedophile. No way I could know but I just don't think he is. If he's proven to be so, that's very sad.

 

People are strange.

 

And if I were betting, I'd bet on acquittal.

[Alndln]

Originally posted by LiveMusic:

he is a kid trapped in an adult body.

Who also has sexual desires,and who does a kid usually want to have sex with? Usually another kid.Iv'e never heard of Michael having anything to do with any other women except that fat biker chick(Debbie Row?)who was basically a surogat and I don't think he had sex with minors thinking there was anything particularly wrong with it in his way of thinking,but I do think that happened,and I do think the accusers in this particular case are taking advantage of that aspect to shake his money tree which complicates matters.

[monster]

You guys are snoozin'.

[Sylver]

This guy has been absolutely off his rocker for years and no one has helped him. He should have power of attorney signed over to a reasonible party and be under psycological supervision 24/7 so that he is not a danger to himself and others.

 

Too bad he's too rich to be able to trust anyone.

[Bruce Swedien]

Super 8 sez-------->I seriously doubt "The Bruce" will be entering this thread, for obvious reasons, and I understand that. But if he wanted to come in and vouche for MJ's character, I would be more than willing to listen.

 

What I think about MJ doesn't matter....what I think could be wrong.

 

Brucie sez-------->That shows you how little you know! Especially about me! I'm here.

 

I can't truly vouche for Michael's character. No one can do that but Michael. I have worked with him closely since he was 17 years old. I have never personally seen him do any of the things that he is accused of. Have you?

 

I have been told things that would curl your hair about Michael. I have not seen any of those things. Have you?

 

I am doing an interview for the BBC about my life with Michael in half an hour.

 

By-the-way, when I was asked to come forward for Michael, I couldn't do it! Not with any good conscience.....

 

Bruce Swedien

[Anifa]

I've always felt that Michael Jackson was deprived of a normal childhood and thrown into the hands of wolves at such an early age of stardom. IIRC, he was only 10 years old when the Jackson 5 was signed to Motown records in 1968; he had been performing with his brothers for some time before that in local talent shows.

 

My guess would be, if for any reason he REALLY does prey on young boys for sexual gratification, is that perhaps Michael experienced sexual abuse himself in the hands of others handling his career as a young boy... I don't know, but it's a possibility. Nobody knows this other than Michael and those that may have abused him. To him, the behavior may seem to be a normal practice and he has never developed beyond the mentality of his youth. He doesn't recognize or understand the consequences of doing that which he feels is natural....

 

I'm just taking a wild shot in the dark with the above, but I actually sort of feel sorry for the guy; he has definitely got serious issues whether he's a pediophile or not. He's very introverted, and probably for good reason with his exposure to the press at such an early age while continuing into his adulthood.

 

However, there is certainly one BIG issue that I have with all of this hodgepodge media. After the very first incident where Michael was accused and tried on charges of molestation; why would ANY parent allow their children to continue going to the ranch in knowing there was a slight possibility of foul play? I sure to hell wouldn't be allowing my son to "go Play" with a grown man that had been accused of a sex crime.... not even after aquittal. The parents of these boys filing charges should have charges of child endangerment filed against them in KNOWING there was the potential of sexual abuse from previous episodes. This is where I tend to think that the incidents are bogus or, if anything else, staged traps to get Michael caught up in a multi million dollar sex crime lawsuit.

[Tedly Nightshade]

One thing I know is that Manson was right when he said "The truth has never been in your courtroom!". Courtrooms have hardly ever been used to determine the truth. The prosecutie lies as needed to hang the guy, the defense lies as needed to get him off the hook. The cops aren't too concerned if you're guilty of what they're dragging you in for. They usually figure you got away with something else at some point, probably pretty often, and if you aren't guilty this time you're guilty in general and this will have to do to punish you with.

 

Personally I am quite convinced that Jackson is more than guilty of hoarding and exploiting far more than his share of the resources of the world, but of course nearly every rich piggie is guilty of that. He's guilty of various serious crimes of fashion. As for whether his gratuitous excesses there at Neverland Ranch include "bad touch" with any of the kids, I can't tell you- I just know that our cultural taboo against that kind of thing is a very live wire and very few people keep any sense of proportion when such charges are discussed. We're back to Salem. Everything's insanely sensational. Nobody's very interested in the truth- they're all interested in pushing their agendas and cashing in.

 

Like Michael has been for so very long. At the expense of whoever. Extreme wealth is not a victimless crime, and this guy wants his bizarre, mutilated mug pasted all over everything to boot. And he gets it!

 

"The truth isn't in your courtroom. It's never been in your courtroom."

[Bill Roberts]

My stance on the criminal justice system is this.

 

You are innocent until PROVEN guilty.

Sure we know Michael is out there. In my earlier writing, I mean everything I say. If he is proven guilty beyond any shadow of a doubt, justice should be served. Just doubting the prosecution dictates aquittal. This is written in stone in the laws. Any prosecution or defense that "manufactures" facts with no basis should be held accountable.

 

I totally agree with Anifa's last paragraph. it just does not make any sense to me at all for a parent to allow their young ones around someone if their is a "questionable" situation possible. Where I live, they are having a huge "gay and lesbian" weekend bash. 60,000 plus to attend and this is about the population of the city and most will be from out of town.

 

Whether you are pro "gay/lesbian" or not, would you feel comfortable allowing your children "free mingling" amongst an openenly sexually active crowd as this? I could not imagine if I had a young child in early grade school to ask me..Daddy, why are those two men kissing like that? (and I do mean this bash will contain very open display of affections for same sex..and the city encourages this bash...for cash.)

 

I believe Michael is being railroaded here. it is just my opinion. It is the parents responsability to shield their children from behavioural patterns that they do not deem appropriate. I don't think it is appropriate to smoke grass or watch HBO in front of the kids but parents allow this all the time in our society. I do not think it is appropriate for a grown man to sleep with others children...innocent or not..it is simply something here where you have parents that have not a clue in the proper upbringing of children to allow them to "sleep over" with a grown Man..Michael or not.

 

No way would I have any of the neighborhood children over here overnight. This may sound strange to many..but I don't even want them in my yard. Too many people have over active imaginations and you just cannot open yourself up to and situation where you don't have control over it.

 

Michael is a strange boat..no doubt. Lets put the blame where it belongs.

[Henchman]

Let's not forget. His actions show the typical pattern of a pedophile.

 

After the first lawsuit, he should never of had sleepovers in his room.

If he wanted a place for kids to have fun and stay over, then he should have had a complete separate guesthouse for them with nannies etc.

 

You can build a complete masnion, and playground with rides. But you don't think of having a separate place for the kids to sleep.

 

Right.

[Tedly Nightshade]

Originally posted by Bill Roberts:

Where I live, they are having a huge "gay and lesbian" weekend bash. 60,000 plus to attend and this is about the population of the city and most will be from out of town.

 

Whether you are pro "gay/lesbian" or not, would you feel comfortable allowing your children "free mingling" amongst an openenly sexually active crowd as this? I could not imagine if I had a young child in early grade school to ask me..Daddy, why are those two men kissing like that?

I'd take the kids down and show 'em around. I'd keep an eye on them and keep a dialogue going, and I'd explain why those two men were kissing like that. But I wouldn't let them run around unattended any more than I would at the state fair or a football game or any other crowd of who knows what kind of people. The kids are most likely to be molested by a family friend or family member, but I wouldn't be taking chances with a random crowd no matter who they were or why they were there.

 

But it's critical to give the kids the truth straight up. They need to know. They're discovering the world and it's various takes on sexuality, compassionate and exploitative both, every day whether we like it or not. Hell, if you have a TV, you have a lot of explaining to do about what's shown, and I hope you all are keeping up a dialogue with the kids instead of letting them process all that on their own.

 

As for justice being served by our injustice system, that would be a chance fluke at best.

[Bill Roberts]

Ted, I agree with what you are saying but to be perfectly clear:

 

This "bash" is going on it's 30th year here. Their are 3 of them. memorial day, 4th July, Labor day. It is all over the TV, the papers, the radio and is so widely known..the crowds just keep getting bigger. The kids know about it. The kids are even told in school that this will be happening. They are highly educated on social structure these days, starting with second grade. It is (well used to be) a fairly isolated event as well. You would have to "go out of your way" to attend. Many events are happening as well. This does not mean that it would be a "good idea" to take them to the rallies if you don't want your kids "openly exposed" to it.

 

To give an anology, it would be very simalar to taking a seven year old into a gay bar at midnight. It is not allowed for obvious reasons because of all of the adult behavour. The way the thing is set-up here, you are very forewarned where this "event" is talking place. Children will be there as well.

 

If you are not pro G/L, their is no need at all to go down there..unless you simply like to be entertained by it all. If you attend, you are "assumed" Gay. No questions about it.

 

Here is the deal though.

 

It is no longer isolated like it was due to the hurricane. Their is not enough manpower in the state to keep open displays of lude and lacivious behavor at bay. In this state, it is a felony to display open sexual behavor (of the raw kind) and it will be "all over".

 

When I say "bash" I mean...it is wild.

 

PS, I am not going.

[Murphman]

Originally posted by Bill Roberts:

The only person that knows if Michael is guilty is Michael.

With all due respect, I think that the statement may be wrong. IF (big if) Michael has committed the crimes he is accused of, he may not actually see it as wrong, therefore he may not know if he is guilty or not. His perception may be skewed enough to keep him from seeing the reality. And Macaulay Culkin says that he didn't get molested. I didn't either. Why didn't they call me as a witness? Just because I've never been to the ranch...

 

Yeah, he should have been in a seperate room or had more witnesses. He shouldn't have installed that peculiar alarm system. And the parents shouldn't let their children stay overnight unattended with a man who has been accused of such behavior.

 

By the way Bruce, I admire your candor. It's not our job to determine his innocence or guilt, it's the jury's. You never saw him doing anything that he was accused of, but what if you said something that made the jury think, "He is strange, he could've done it..." Those hair-curling stories could be damaging, true or not.

 

My two cents. Feel free to give me change.

[Anifa]

Originally posted by Henchman:

Let's not forget. His actions show the typical pattern of a pedophile.

 

After the first lawsuit, he should never of had sleepovers in his room.

If he wanted a place for kids to have fun and stay over, then he should have had a complete separate guesthouse for them with nannies etc.

 

You can build a complete masnion, and playground with rides. But you don't think of having a separate place for the kids to sleep.

 

Right.

Granted, he should have realized the vulnerable situation that he had placed himself in and restructured the program. But, in his warped mind, he wants to be a PART of the playground in which he created..... He wants to be one of them; the life he never got to enjoy as a kid. He's a freak of nature and a victim of his own circumstance; there's not doubt that he is imbalanced.

 

BUT, where is the responsibility of the parents who are aloof or STUPID enough to allow their children to enter into harms' way? The kids see an idol, a superstar, a freak show and they are entranced with the idea of becoming a part of the fantasyland created.... they are innocent. The PARENTS however, are obligated to watch after the needs and the safety of their children. To permit their children unsupervised OVERNIGHT stay with a grown man that has already established a reputation for child molestation... well ... those parents are substantially guilty of neglect and child endangerment; THEY should know better.

[Extreme Mixing]

None of us really know what any other person is doing in their private moments. But if I were constantly having sleepovers with 17 year old girls, taking showers together, drinking wine, having tickle fights, and looking at porn, I think you would all assume that it wasn't just a "charming", innocent little get together.

 

By the way, Bill, the standard is reasonable doubt, not a shadow of a doubt.

 

Steve

[GY]

Bruce.... all I can say is... I love ya' man!

[Tedly Nightshade]

Actually Bill, I think I would stay home or take the kids out to the woods or something. That kind of thing really doesn't give a useful perspective on sexuality- very little of it is genuine, mostly a lot of show-off and gloating and that. I'd rather introduce the kids to a nice gay or dyke couple with a clean house and a garden.

 

Originally posted by Extreme Mixing:

None of us really know what any other person is doing in their private moments. But if I were constantly having sleepovers with 17 year old girls, taking showers together, drinking wine, having tickle fights, and looking at porn, I think you would all assume that it wasn't just a "charming", innocent little get together.

Make 'em 18, and it'd be perfectly legal! It sounds so fun the way you say it... I'd draw the line at looking at porn though. Plenty to look at already. Although all these college kids look like children to me- I can't get into it.

 

We draw the line in some pretty arbitrary places. Some things are an unspeakable crime, other things are just fine but maybe bad manners. That doesn't make much sense. And of course, someone like Jeff Dahmer can have all you can eat boat children and homeless kids and the cops smile and wink- it's not until someone from "a good family" becomes a victim that anything is done. And of course, the very injustice system itself would rigorously prosecute anybody "taking the law into their own hands", even as they dilly dally with the child molesters. There's a couple well known and active ones in our neck of the woods here- a lot of frustrated folks would like to do something about it, but vigilantism is enforced even as child molestation is not. Actually, the sheriff here was in a big child porn scandal a couple years back.

[Enrique]

"You are innocent until PROVEN guilty."

 

Not if you are Michael Jackson or R Kelly.

 

Even if he is found "innocent" of theses charges, he has already been tried in the court of public opinion.

 

Many people will just say he got away again or this is just another case of celebrity justice.

 

Why didnt the media cover the pedophile priests as much as they have covered

MJ?

[Bill Roberts]

"The Vatican has many many times more Money than MJ will ever have in 15 lifetimes!"

 

[Franknputer]

Actually, there has been tons of coverage of pedophile priests too. There would have been more if the priests were showing up late to court, dancing on cars outside the courtroom, etc.

 

MJ brought a bunch of this on himself. No matter what his issues, he should have recognized the 1st time around that this man-child routine looks really bad. I think he needs to grow up, already.

[Henchman]

Originally posted by Enrique:

"You are innocent until PROVEN guilty."

 

Not if you are Michael Jackson or R Kelly.

 

Ah yes. R. Kelly. Another shining example.

 

Also, being found Not-Guilty doesn't always mean you're innocent either.

[Bill Roberts]

What does Orange juice and your last post hench..have in common???