Jobs in Music Film/TV going away

[Docbop]

Since there is a bunch of Music biz threads going on I thought this is related seeing how Film/TV composer and related work jobs are going away.   Anne-Kathrin Dern is a composter in LA I've been watching her YT's for years, she has a lot of good videos on music theory,  composing, and gear. 

 

  

[AROIOS]

3 hours ago, Docbop said:

Since there is a bunch of Music biz threads going on I thought this is related seeing how Film/TV composer and related work jobs are going away.   Anne-Kathrin Dern is a composter in LA I've been watching her YT's for years, she has a lot of good videos on music theory,  composing, and gear.

 

Not to point fingers, but by using sample libraries extensively, composers/producers like her contributed to the plight of human players. Sample an orchestral musician once, and you've taken away 99% of the need to hire him going forward. This is the same fear actors in the strike she mentioned had over their deepfake "digital replica".

 

Writers in the strike also feared LLMs trained on their screenplays will spit out scripts one dime a dozen. And the same thing is already starting to happen to music composition and production.

But "the creatives" I knew all proudly claimed "A.I. can never become creative", when I told them what's coming in 2015. Heck, even at this very moment, there's still no shortage of folks who believe in that self-soothing delusion.

[Docbop]

1 hour ago, AROIOS said:

Not to point fingers, but by using sample libraries extensively, composers/producers like her contributed to the plight of human players. Sample an orchestral musician once, and you've taken away 99% of the need to hire him going forward. This is the same fear actors in the strike she mentioned had over their deepfake "digital replica".

 

She works like everyone does most of the use of sample libraries is for making the composer cue mockups they send to directors for approval.  Then once film editing and other changes are done then they move to studio and record the soundtrack with real musicians.   Now some films are trying to save money and only recording major parts with live musicians and other smaller parts using the samples.   It's all driven by the film director and the budget he has.    So don't blame her for how the film industry works. 

[AROIOS]

3 hours ago, Docbop said:

...So don't blame her for how the film industry works. 

 

3 hours ago, AROIOS said:

Not to point fingers...

1) there wasn't any "blaming"; 2) only big productions use real orchestra these days, and films aren't the only place such economics apply, most games use sample libraries to various degrees; 3) my reply wasn't intended as a moral discussion. Even if it was, your line of defense is no stronger than "don't blame the doctors in Auschwitz for how the system works"

[CrossRhodes]

4 hours ago, Docbop said:

 

She works like everyone does most of the use of sample libraries is for making the composer cue mockups they send to directors for approval.  Then once film editing and other changes are done then they move to studio and record the soundtrack with real musicians.   Now some films are trying to save money and only recording major parts with live musicians and other smaller parts using the samples.   It's all driven by the film director and the budget he has.    So don't blame her for how the film industry works. 

 

I work on feature films on the previs/postvis side and games as well doing animatic and cinematic editorial. I've worked with some amazing composers and that is the workflow. Games often have really big budgets for music and it's great to see the composers being able to hire orchestral players and really bring their vision to life. 

[CHarrell]

15 hours ago, CrossRhodes said:

 

I work on feature films on the previs/postvis side and games as well doing animatic and cinematic editorial. I've worked with some amazing composers and that is the workflow. Games often have really big budgets for music and it's great to see the composers being able to hire orchestral players and really bring their vision to life. 

 

On the other hand though, especially on the indie side--and this is for various forms of media--there are a lot of projects that have small overall budgets and if we as composers had to split that for hiring players, booking sessions in studio spaces, etc., we wouldn't have anything to buy groceries with, or more accurately, would be in the negative since we'd have to spring for it out of pocket. When I first started, I had a very anti-sample stance, but I learnt quickly that not using those meant not getting any work at all.

 

I think the majority of keyboardists here have also, in some situation or another, have had to cover horns, strings, and lord knows what other instrument parts on stage as well.

[AROIOS]

15 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

...and lord knows what other instrument parts on stage as well.

 

 

[ProfD]

Technology creates budget cuts across the board (no pun intended).

 

Synthesizers, samplers and Romplers have been in play for a long time.

 

Mike Post got do many miles out of a Yamaha DX7 that surely carrying it to the airport allows him to fly anywhere around the world for free.😁

 

When it comes some of the incidental music heard in TV and Film, there's absolutely no reason to hire an orchestra or real musicians.

 

Any KB workstation with a sequencer will suffice. Musicianship optional too.🤣😎

[David Emm]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

When it comes some of the incidental music heard in TV and Film, there's absolutely no reason to hire an orchestra or real musicians.

Any KB workstation with a sequencer will suffice. Musicianship optional too.🤣😎

 

While visiting Poland, I believe, Frank Zappa encountered a young musician who had used various modules to create some meaningful orchestral results. Even he was impressed, no small feat. The year escapes me, but I immediately envisioned E-mu Proteus series pieces. Even today, some of those appear in serious racks. I hate seeing some musicians lose work over it, but up to a high point, project studios are the friends of those with less-than-Zimmer-sized budgets. Besides, I'm too hooked to be impartial. I love laying hands to some sky-splitting mega-patch that makes me feel like unto a god.⚡

[CHarrell]

58 minutes ago, David Emm said:

 

While visiting Poland, I believe, Frank Zappa encountered a young musician who had used various modules to create some meaningful orchestral results. Even he was impressed, no small feat. The year escapes me, but I immediately envisioned E-mu Proteus series pieces. Even today, some of those appear in serious racks. I hate seeing some musicians lose work over it, but up to a high point, project studios are the friends of those with less-than-Zimmer-sized budgets. Besides, I'm too hooked to be impartial. I love laying hands to some sky-splitting mega-patch that makes me feel like unto a god.⚡

 

Zappa was pretty notorious in the 80s for wanting to remove "the human element" of performance, and used the Synclavier to realize many of his later pieces of music. He was actually shocked that people could play some of the music he wrote at the end there! He even ended up sampling some of those players and using those for his last (posthumously released) project.

[MorayM]

And Conlon Nancarrow before him!

 

The thing is that tech has always killed jobs, but then new ones spring up. Computer FX killed the model makers but created 3D artists. Digital photography killed the film labs but created data wranglers. Tape ops are now Pro Tools ops. The wheel keeps turning.

 

I think what will happen is that film making will become far less centralised, and given the rents in LA that can only be a good thing. I know a great composer for example who scores films from a small village in Yorkshire, something that wouldn't have been possible 20 years ago. It'll widen the pool of talent, and more diverse talent can only mean more interesting art.

 

P.S. Another recommendation for Anne-Kathrin's videos for anyone interested in composition in general, not just films!

[Geoff Grace]

It doesn’t necessarily have to be all or nothing. There is a notable amount of indie films that get by with a small string ensemble and a handful of other instruments. 
 

Best,

 

Geoff

[CrossRhodes]

22 hours ago, David Emm said:

 

While visiting Poland, I believe, Frank Zappa encountered a young musician who had used various modules to create some meaningful orchestral results. Even he was impressed, no small feat. The year escapes me, but I immediately envisioned E-mu Proteus series pieces. Even today, some of those appear in serious racks. I hate seeing some musicians lose work over it, but up to a high point, project studios are the friends of those with less-than-Zimmer-sized budgets. Besides, I'm too hooked to be impartial. I love laying hands to some sky-splitting mega-patch that makes me feel like unto a god.⚡

This reminds me of a buddy of mine who is a composer on everything from feature films to indie projects and he is constantly scaling up and down as budget permits. He has a pretty sweet modular set up that he always uses for tension drones and unsettling pad sounds. He could easily just pull up some VST presets and save a lot of sweat equity but what’s the fun in that? I also think it gives his scores a bit of an edge and helps them to stand out. Kinda how Trent reznor and Atticus Ross have leveraged hardware synths and modular’s to make a name for themselves in the film scoring world.