The size of plastic 88s

[The Piano Man]

What is it with plastic 88 key boards? So many are incredibly bulky… 

 

Kross 88

Krome 88

MX88

MOXF8

Kurz SP7, PC4 

etc

 

In contrast, RD88, RD08, PX5s etc seem to achieve a strong feature set in a sleeker case. I far prefer the shape of these models.

 

So, any thoughts?

 

What is Roland and Casio doing that others are not managing?

 

Yamaha has sleek cases for P145/225 etc but seem unable to get a bigger feature set in such a case, in the way Roland have managed with the RD88/08

 

Ultimately, I prefer a pro board with a metal case and internal power supply but for a 2nd board, a compact lightweight 88 is cool.

[JamPro]

It may have to do with the length of the keys inside the board and the mechanism of the key action.  So I suggest you play  an RD-88 or a PX5 before making conclusions.

 

I love the action of my RD-2000, but it is a heavy beast for gigging.  If Roland has a similar action in the RD-88, I might switch.  I am guessing the onboard sounds are roughly the same in the two boards. 

[Reezekeys]

I bought the Korg Liano specifically for its compactness and low weight. That's what I care about more as I age - I don't want to deal with the schlep anymore. 13 lbs and about as small a footprint as you can have in an 88. Features-wise it comes up short compared to others, but I don't care since I use an iPad or iPhone for my sounds and I have a NanoKontrol if I want to do anything beyond a simple piano gig. Of course the action has to meet a minimum standard for me to enjoy playing it, and it does. What's a drag is that all the commercially available bags are too big - I went with a custom made one and it costs almost half as much as the keyboard itself.

 

I believe the Numa Compact is slightly shallower but a tad bigger in height - but that's another 88 to consider if you want small and light. It most definitely has more features but most definitely costs about double what the Liano does!

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, The Piano Man said:

What is it with plastic 88 key boards? So many are incredibly bulky… 

...

So, any thoughts?

 

A,plastic chassis is relatively cheap to manufacture, except that the fabrication costs for the initial mold are quite high. So companies look to use the same basic chassis on numerous models over a period of years. My guess is that Korg designed the 88 Kross/Krome chassis to be usable, not just for those two boards, but also to increase its potential to be used again in future boards, even if those future designs would require the availability of more internal space.

[The Piano Man]

9 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

A,plastic chassis is relatively cheap to manufacture, except that the fabrication costs for the initial mold are quite high. So companies look to use the same basic chassis on numerous models over a period of years. My guess is that Korg designed the 88 Kross/Krome chassis to be usable, not just for those two boards, but also to increase its potential to be used again in future boards, even if those future designs would require the availability of more internal space.

Perhaps it may be reasonable to expect that Korg will put a new slimmer model in for the Kross and Krome 88 replacements then, or at least use the B2/XE20 chassis which is less bulky than the Kross/Krome 88 one. Perhaps said replacements will begin with the letter N too. 
 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

Well, some of them are doing lots of sound duties so they stick pitch and mod on them.  If they stick them on the left where many like them, the box gets longer.  Shorter 88s with those controllers have the pitch and mod up top. 
 

Depth wise, there seems to be some requirement for the action to have long enough keys for a nice velocity response along the entire key.   Some manufacturers have looked for a compromise on key length to shave some depth.  
 

Same with height.   Some actions require some height and a stable bottom.   
 

As far as weight, the more plastic they use the lower they get the weight.  Some customers like that, some prefer quality materials and studier builds.  
 

Thankfully there are many options to choose from.  
 

For a supportive second tier set of keys you may consider a cheap controller with MIDI and just wire it to your pro board.  But there are also light and small options like the VR-09.  

[DeltaJockey]

I like the horizontal compactness of the RD88, but as a weighted action, the tradeoff is the bulky height, (also to house the speakers). It sits very high on stands compared to other weighted boards I have.

I have to have the stands as low as possible to help with this. I sometimes put it on one of those apex style stands, because they allow continuous height adjustment.

In a side profile, the RD88 looks like a keyboard sitting in a long plastic bucket

But in practice, it is very manage-ably light, and the depth of the ribbing/bracing because of it's height makes it very rigid.

 

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

3 hours ago, DeltaJockey said:

I like the horizontal compactness of the RD88, but as a weighted action, the tradeoff is the bulky height, (also to house the speakers). It sits very high on stands compared to other weighted boards I have.

I have to have the stands as low as possible to help with this. I sometimes put it on one of those apex style stands, because they allow continuous height adjustment.

In a side profile, the RD88 looks like a keyboard sitting in a long plastic bucket

But in practice, it is very manage-ably light, and the depth of the ribbing/bracing because of it's height makes it very rigid.

 

 

 

It’s interesting that the RD88 is 6.31” high where the RD2000 only requires 5.51” in height.  A bit more than an inch difference.  
For comparison CK88 is 5.8” high, while the CP88/YC88 is 5.5”/5.6” high.  So very minor differences in height.  

[Stokely]

Agreed.   Contrast two weighted boards I've owned/own--Moxf8 and Forte 7.   The Forte is quite a bit heavier, but it fits into a 61-key case and is way easier to pick up and move.   Granted, it's one less octave but I'm just making the point that weight isn't the only issue with shlep.   The Moxf8 was always in danger of being dropped when handled because it was so bulky with sloping angles.

[Delaware Dave]

19 hours ago, JamPro said:

It may have to do with the length of the keys inside the board and the mechanism of the key action. 

This is a big piece ....

[cphollis]

As you can see, a real grand piano action is quite bulky and heavy. 

The smaller and lighter the keybed action, the less likely it's going to play like the real thing.

 

[The Piano Man]

On 8/26/2024 at 3:13 PM, cphollis said:

As you can see, a real grand piano action is quite bulky and heavy. 

The smaller and lighter the keybed action, the less likely it's going to play like the real thing.

 

By this logic, the Kross 88 should have a better quality piano-like action than the Casio PX5s and the RD88…

[DeltaJockey]

On 8/26/2024 at 11:27 AM, ElmerJFudd said:

It’s interesting that the RD88 is 6.31” high where the RD2000 only requires 5.51” in height.  A bit more than an inch difference.  
For comparison CK88 is 5.8” high, while the CP88/YC88 is 5.5”/5.6” high.  So very minor differences in height.  

Yeah, I put that down to the fact that the RD2000 goes back further, allowing more horizontal for the hammer mechanism, rather than like the RD88 needing more depth under for the folded part of the action, (and speakers). Not sure of the rational for Yamaha, though they both start at a fairly slim height, and both have more backward depth than the RD88. The alternative is to have them slim in height and backward depth like the Casio, and have annoyingly short pivot lengths.

[bfields]

On 8/25/2024 at 5:31 PM, ElmerJFudd said:

Well, some of them are doing lots of sound duties so they stick pitch and mod on them.  If they stick them on the left where many like them, the box gets longer.

The Casio PX-560 has 88 keys, pitch & mod wheels on the side, but still isn't especially wide, at 52".  So it's possible to make them a lot more compact than most do.

[ElmerJFudd]

18 minutes ago, bfields said:

The Casio PX-560 has 88 keys, pitch & mod wheels on the side, but still isn't especially wide, at 52".  So it's possible to make them a lot more compact than most do.

That’s true, I have a 560 which I selected for compactness, lightweight and sounds.  Casio accomplished this width by making the end piece and wheels fairly slim.  It of course could be shorter yet if placed up top.  
 

Looking at the Roland A88 in contrast.  It adds a lot of extra width to the board by placing all its controls on the left rather than up top.