How is your keyboard connected to your mixer?

[Dufffy]

If you are using a mixer with your keyboard sound system please describe your cable choices and how you have the elements of the sound system hooked up.

 

Describe your speakers and subwoofer and how you have them set up.

 

I have not found a lot of discussion surrounding the topic of wiring up your sound amplification system.

 

I am configuring my leisure home playing sound system with j.b.l. nearfield 5” monitors and the j.b.l. matching 200w Subwoofer.

 

I am using xlr cables and a trs to twin ts splitter. 
 

Keyboard 1/4” output thru splitter into twin xlr cables to Yamaha mg10xu mixer channels 1 and 2 inputs. Then mixer main outs to the subwoofer inputs and thru the sub outputs to the inputs on the near field stereo monitors

 

Keyboard is a Yamaha inexpensive psre373. 

 

My sound thru this system is excellent and silent at rest. Zero hissing or other sound system noise. The keyboard voices are loud and clear with a warm resonance. The sounds are very rich and clear after adjusting the mixer parameters.

 

The sound is very excellent when compared to the sound from the built in speakers.

 

I am interested in how you hooked up your system and any suggestions.

 

Thank you.

[AROIOS]

[Dufffy]

Hmmm ... That's worse than how mine used to look. 

[EscapeRocks]

In my live rig, I have two boards 

Left and Right from each go to my rack mounted Focusrite 18i20 which, besides being my audio i/o for when I use MainStage, it’s a great standalone mixer. 
 

The left and right outputs then go thru my Radial Pro-D2 DI.   Then to the house’s monitor desk or FOH. 
 

I set it up the same way at home/studio.  Couple of JBL powered speakers. 

[Moonglow]

I use two keyboards, as well. I run the left and right outputs from each keyboard into the corresponding L/R inputs on channels 1 and 2 of a Radial Key Largo mixer. I run the L/R XLR main outputs of the mixer to FOH and the L/R quarter-inch monitor outputs of the mixer to a pair of old EV or JBL powered speakers. When running mono, it’s basically half of the preceding connections, and of course, only one powered speaker.

[stoken6]

7 hours ago, Dufffy said:

Keyboard 1/4” output thru splitter into twin xlr cables to Yamaha mg10xu mixer channels 1 and 2 inputs. Then mixer main outs to the subwoofer inputs and thru the sub outputs to the inputs on the near field stereo monitors

Seems fine to me. Although you might not need the mixer at all (unless you're using it for gain staging): keys->sub->tops might be sufficient. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[ImproKeys]

I think you dont need the 1/4 to xlr adapter / splitter. If you are not using a high value DI Box there will be no benefit in using the xlr ins on your yamaha mixer. Just go straight 1/4 to a stereo input or two mono on your mixer.

[J.F.N.]

7 hours ago, AROIOS said:

 

Would love to hear that remix!

 

 

[JamPro]

In my studio, the L and R outputs of the digital piano go to channels 7 and 8 of the mixer.  The L(mono) output of the digital organ goes to a MS-145 Pro.  If I want to record the organ, I set up mics around the MS-145 and run them to the mixer.  The mixer is interfaced with my studio computer, and the Control Room outputs connected to a pair of 5" powered monitors.  I monitor the digital piano thru the Control Room monitors.  I monitor the digital organ thru the MS-145.

[cphollis]

A lot of the choices have to do with the space you're using, e.g bedroom studio, barn, outdoor gig, etc.

 

Since I play in a lot of different spaces, the "ideal" setup in each is quite different: connections, mixer, speakers, etc.

 

If you don't have a nice pair of open-back headphones, start with those. 

A very small space can be driven by high-end DAW speaker/sub combos and sound great. 

A restaurant or small church can sound great with columnar speakers and integrated subs. 

Larger venues are better served by familiar point source speakers and subs. 

And I'm about to pull the trigger on a $25k festival system with line arrays and multiple subs.

 

If I'm playing through my PA, I have a 4 channel powered DI in the rack to avoid the signal-sapping passive DIs.

 

If I'm playing through someone else's PA, I use a beat-up XR-18 to mix my boards, do a little light sound processing, mix in whatever FOH monitor signal they're sending me and back to my IEMs.

[Dufffy]

10 hours ago, EscapeRocks said:

In my live rig, I have two boards 

Left and Right from each go to my rack mounted Focusrite 18i20 which, besides being my audio i/o for when I use MainStage, it’s a great standalone mixer. 
 

The left and right outputs then go thru my Radial Pro-D2 DI.   Then to the house’s monitor desk or FOH. 
 

I set it up the same way at home/studio.  Couple of JBL powered speakers. 

 

Out of my yam psre373 stereo output trs jack is a trs to trs cable terminating with twin trs female plugs into which special cables are inserted - trs 1/4" inserted into the female trs plug and at the ends of the cables are xlr male plugs which are plugged into ch1 and ch2 on my mg10xu mixer. Then xlr from main outs to xlr sub dual inputs. Thence xlr on to the jbl nearfield monitors.

 

This is one of the best wiring designs that I was able to develop but I am not sure if it is exactly like I think it is in terms of correctness. 

 

The bottom line is that it is a well thought out design and it works very well, as planned, and the speakers are silent when idle with zero noise or hissing. I am happy with the sound.

 

Note:  I'm learning as I go. I am expecting my 2 channel passive di box and xlr cables today. I am inserting the di box before the mixer to protect from accidentally switching on the mixers phantom power and burning up the keyboard. The di box will protect the keyboard from damage in the event that phantom power is accidentally turned on at the mixer. Don't want that.....

 

So the 2 channel di box will be added next and the system should be safe.

 

Furthermore I ordered an additional cable to hook up the keyboard directly from the stereo output jack on the keyboard straight to twin rca jacks and into the rca pair on the inputs of ch5 of the mixer's stereo channel.  This is another option for safely connecting the psre373 to the mixer and this does not need the di box, completely avoiding the hazard of phantom power damaging anything. Because phantom power is not present on the stereo channels.

 

I was not aware that phantom power was a hazard in my current set up. But I am concerned and the di box will protect against this.

 

In summary I prefer to use the all xlr signal path including the 2 channel passive di box because I read that by using the xlr cable pathway into ch1 and ch2 the resultant signal passing is much stronger than simply using the trs/rca pair cable method into ch5. I want to have the extra signal strength but I am not sure how much difference will be noticeable between the 2 cabling methods. I am guessing that the xlr pathway will sound noticeably better.

 

I am definitely an amateur hobbyist when it comes to this but I have some basic understanding of electronics and sound systems. I have a decent digital multimeter, for instance; and I have decent soldering tools, skills and a nice radio shack digital soldering station. 

 

I'm concerned about these cabling decisions because it is important and I don't want to ruin my new nicer keyboard that I haven't hooked up yet (yam ck61).'The ck61 has dual trs 1/4" output jacks and it will connect straight to the di box with xlr cables. I already have this plan in progress.

 

I am interested if my wiring plan is similar to that of your system. As far as I can tell my system follows a very similar path to that of your system. Except that I am using the mixer rather than the focus rite interface.

 

Your comments are appreciated. Thank you.

[vonnor]

12 hours ago, AROIOS said:

Ah... the shortcomings of A.I.

 

~ vonnor

[Dufffy]

10 hours ago, Moonglow said:

I use two keyboards, as well. I run the left and right outputs from each keyboard into the corresponding L/R inputs on channels 1 and 2 of a Radial Key Largo mixer. I run the L/R XLR main outputs of the mixer to FOH and the L/R quarter-inch monitor outputs of the mixer to a pair of old EV or JBL powered speakers. When running mono, it’s basically half of the preceding connections, and of course, only one powered speaker.

I like this set up. The Key Largo seems like it makes things easier and in addition it provides a very useful mixer type preamp and useful outputs. I can see where this is ideal for when you need to have maximum portability and maximum control over your monitor mix. I like this approach and the Key Largo is a great recommendation and it is a very nice very small mixer that seems ideal for situations like this. The Key Largo is a great design made to make life easier for people like us. I'm going to think about getting one of these very compact gems.

 

In my home environment it is easy for me to control my sound but I can imagine that it is more difficult when you have to send your sound to someone else that controls the front of house system. I would wish to have this additional control over my own stage monitor, close at hand, at least.

 

Thanks for your comment.

[Stokely]

Yeah I have done the same with the KL monitor out.  I used to have it wired to the input of a Rolls headphone amp (that also got a keys-less monitor mix coming from FOH) so that I could use in-ears but keep keys under my control.  Or I can wire it to a speaker if not using in-ears.

I've used other mixers, all simply had line outs though the KL is the only one with a DI built in.   One flaw iirc of the KL is that if you connect L and R to any channel then the outs are stereo, so if you intend to go mono you need to only hook up one side from each keyboard.  I'd much prefer a mono/stereo switch on the thing, that way I could use my regular stereo mini-snakes to connect my keyboards up and just hit a switch if I need mono.  But anyway...

At home I'm all in the box now but it used to be the same way.  Main outs or control outs of a mixer to the input of an amp.  The last time I did this was so long ago I didn't have powered speakers so that's why I say an "amp"   (Actually I'm still using a Crown reference amp from 1997 or so with my KRK unpowered speakers from the same era!)

[Dufffy]

2 hours ago, cphollis said:

A lot of the choices have to do with the space you're using, e.g bedroom studio, barn, outdoor gig, etc.

If I'm playing through my PA, I have a 4 channel powered DI in the rack to avoid the signal-sapping passive DIs.

 

 

I am not an expert about these things. In regard to blocking phantom power from the mixer - the use of a dual channel 'passive' di is recommended to protect against the phantom power getting into and destroying the keyboard.

 

Therefore my question is - does the 'active' 4 channel di box block phantom power and is the powered di itself protected from damage by phantom power? Evidently phantom power can get into 'other' active circuits connected to phantom power and do damage to those other connected instruments, etc. The passive di box is recommended specifically because it is 'unpowered' and will not be damaged by phantom power. Maybe the powered di box is specifically protected from phantom power. I have no idea about this and I have no experience with figuring this out. Maybe it's protected, maybe it isn't, I don't know.

 

I'm not sure about some of these things, but I'm interested.

 

It seems like the Key Largo solves both of these problems.

 

[vonnor]

1 hour ago, cphollis said:

...mix in whatever FOH monitor signal they're sending me and back to my IEMs.

I thought I was the only one who did that, Chuck.

 

At home I have two rigs. At my home-office desk I use an Akai Advance-61 and all virtual sound sources, running thru a Focusrite Scarlet 2i4 audio interface to powered 5" JBL studio monitors. I do mostly sound creation for patches that I'll use live, then xfer them to the live laptop. Also if I'm woodshedding cover parts off U-Toob or the like.

 

Other side of the room I have the live rig, but instead of the signal destination being ear-bugs or a QSC K10, it's a pair of powered M-Audio 5" shelf monitors.

 

Live I run L/R audio out from the Nord and Kronos into an RME Fireface UCX-II interface and use a 2-in-1 Win10 laptop for mixing in the boards with the VSTs and the monitor return. I can route the monitor signal coming back from the main board, as well as the click, just to one set of outputs for the ear-bugs. The other set of outputs are just the sound sources (VSTs, HW Boards, WAV Samples) for sending to FOH. Depending on the Sound Tech preference and room/stage size, I can switch from Mono to Stereo with one button on the laptop app, and run a output to the ear-bug xmitter or the QSC K10.

 

Cable-wise, the sig from the keyboards to the RME is a multi-chan snake from Redco Audio, 24/26ga TRS per chan. Outputs are all TRS or XLR.

 

~ vonnor

[Dufffy]

5 hours ago, stoken6 said:

Seems fine to me. Although you might not need the mixer at all (unless you're using it for gain staging): keys->sub->tops might be sufficient. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

I am using the mixer for sound shaping into a jbl near field monitor/subwoofer sound system and for gain staging. Also my mixer has excellent effects and the mixer allows me to play leisure listening music thru its high quality sonic system and it sounds absolutely great! I enjoy listening to music thru the jbl speaker/sub system! The best sound quality yet for leisurely listening. 

 

I have a big handmade wooden desk/bookshelf converted into keyboard station. It's nice. Dual layer keyboard setup with mixer mounted on the front before me, to the side at arms reach for quick changes.

[cphollis]

24 minutes ago, Dufffy said:

I am not an expert about these things. In regard to blocking phantom power from the mixer - the use of a dual channel 'passive' di is recommended to protect against the phantom power getting into and destroying the keyboard.

 

Therefore my question is - does the 'active' 4 channel di box block phantom power and is the powered di itself protected from damage by phantom power? Evidently phantom power can get into 'other' active circuits connected to phantom power and do damage to those other connected instruments, etc. The passive di box is recommended specifically because it is 'unpowered' and will not be damaged by phantom power. Maybe the powered di box is specifically protected from phantom power. I have no idea about this and I have no experience with figuring this out. Maybe it's protected, maybe it isn't, I don't know.

 

I'm not sure about some of these things, but I'm interested.

 

It seems like the Key Largo solves both of these problems.

 

Damage by phantom power isn't a thing for relatively modern keyboards.  I have never, ever heard of this happening.

[Dufffy]

14 minutes ago, vonnor said:

I thought I was the only one who did that, Chuck.

 

At home I have two rigs. At my home-office desk I use an Akai Advance-61 and all virtual sound sources, running thru a Focusrite Scarlet 2i4 audio interface to powered 5" JBL studio monitors. I do mostly sound creation for patches that I'll use live, then xfer them to the live laptop. Also if I'm woodshedding cover parts off U-Toob or the like.

 

Other side of the room I have the live rig, but instead of the signal destination being ear-bugs or a QSC K10, it's a pair of powered M-Audio 5" shelf monitors.

 

Live I run L/R audio out from the Nord and Kronos into an RME Fireface UCX-II interface and use a 2-in-1 Win10 laptop for mixing in the boards with the VSTs and the monitor return. I can route the monitor signal coming back from the main board, as well as the click, just to one set of outputs for the ear-bugs. The other set of outputs are just the sound sources (VSTs, HW Boards, WAV Samples) for sending to FOH. Depending on the Sound Tech preference and room/stage size, I can switch from Mono to Stereo with one button on the laptop app, and run a output to the ear-bug xmitter or the QSC K10.

 

Cable-wise, the sig from the keyboards to the RME is a multi-chan snake from Redco Audio, 24/26ga TRS per chan. Outputs are all TRS or XLR.

 

~ vonnor

 

Nice. I can appreciate this set up. Excellent. 

 

I might consider a focus rite and I'm sure it can have a beneficial effect upon the resultant sound coming from the speakers because, I guess, of the high quality signal path within the interface. 

 

 

[Dufffy]

4 minutes ago, cphollis said:

Damage by phantom power isn't a thing for relatively modern keyboards.  I have never, ever heard of this happening.

Good.

 

I suspected that modern keyboards are not susceptible to this problem. However, the concern has continued to be clearly stated as a potential very costly outcome.

[cphollis]

@duffy anyone who plays on antique gear live deserves what they get.  I had a bass player that thought they stopped making good bass gear in 1975.  I had to let him go, as he couldn't get through too many gigs without something malfunctioning.

[Dufffy]

No one has mentioned that they just run a cable into the dual rca jacks on a stereo mixer channel. A lot of people seem to be using the trs/xlr channel connections on an interface (focus rite).

 

Using an unbalanced rca input to the mixer probably does not sound as good as when using balanced xlr cables. Less powerful of a signal. I am not aware of all of the details but there are evidently substantial differences in sound between the 2 cabling methods.

 

 

[Dufffy]

10 minutes ago, cphollis said:

@duffy anyone who plays on antique gear live deserves what they get.  I had a bass player that thought they stopped making good bass gear in 1975.  I had to let him go, as he couldn't get through too many gigs without something malfunctioning.

 

I know what you mean.

 

[octa]

Stage (full rig): Key Largo XLR outs to FOH, 1/4" outs to KP-610s or pair of QSC K12s

 

Stage (small setup, no pedalboard, often single kb): I just bring Radial JDI-duplex and do the same XLR to FOH, 1/4" to KP-610s, or maybe no amp if there's a decent stage monitor (sometimes regret not bringing an amp in this case)

 

Home: I mostly play VST's from MacBook to RME UFX II through studio monitors or headphones and have an Ashly LX308B (in same rack as RME) which is handy for using hardware kbs, drum machine etc.

[Dufffy]

2 hours ago, Stokely said:

Yeah I have done the same with the KL monitor out.  I used to have it wired to the input of a Rolls headphone amp (that also got a keys-less monitor mix coming from FOH) so that I could use in-ears but keep keys under my control.  Or I can wire it to a speaker if not using in-ears.

I've used other mixers, all simply had line outs though the KL is the only one with a DI built in.   One flaw iirc of the KL is that if you connect L and R to any channel then the outs are stereo, so if you intend to go mono you need to only hook up one side from each keyboard.  I'd much prefer a mono/stereo switch on the thing, that way I could use my regular stereo mini-snakes to connect my keyboards up and just hit a switch if I need mono.  But anyway...

At home I'm all in the box now but it used to be the same way.  Main outs or control outs of a mixer to the input of an amp.  The last time I did this was so long ago I didn't have powered speakers so that's why I say an "amp"   (Actually I'm still using a Crown reference amp from 1997 or so with my KRK unpowered speakers from the same era!)

I appreciate your comments. I like using the small yam mg10xu mixer with effects because it was the best way I could think of to quickly make changes to my sound quickly, without button pushing and menu diving. I wanted analog knobs and switches, although there is nothing wrong with digital mixers. Plus I already had the mg10xu and wasn't using it. The present use is the best use that I have used the little mixer for. It allows me to fill out some of the weaker keyboard voices to my preference and the panoply of controls allows for optimizing the sound from the monitor subwoofer system.

 

I like to control the gain staging and other variables. I am unfamiliar with the use of interfaces to perform these tasks. The mixer produces vastly superior sounds compared to the unaltered sound of the jbl speaker/sub system. Without the mixer it is difficult to make any but the most simple adjustments to the sound from the speaker system. I want to be able to easily reach up and turn some knobs, make some adjustments, etc., quickly, on the fly.

 

It seems, however, that the Key Largo is a great option to the standard audio mixer. It seems like a very smart piece of equipment to have. It seems to be a very easy and portable way to do some of the things I'm trying to accomplish. 

 

[Stokely]

KL has no EQ or effects, it's main thing (to me at least) is to submix transparently and "safely" as it has DIs built in.

I used a Soundcraft Notepad for many gigs, it's more similar to your Yamaha.  Also a couple different Mackies way back when, and a Rolls that ended up not getting much use.

If I had a bunch of hardware modules/keyboards and was recording onto a computer or other recording device, I'd personally want something as quiet and transparent and simple as possible, whatever that is.   Any effects or EQ I'd handle in the DAW, any mixing for that matter (I'd set the mixer channels all at nominal for gain/noise).   But different strokes there   

[Dufffy]

4 minutes ago, octa said:

Stage (full rig): Key Largo XLR outs to FOH, 1/4" outs to KP-610s or pair of QSC K12s

 

Stage (small setup, no pedalboard, often single kb): I just bring Radial JDI-duplex and do the same XLR to FOH, 1/4" to KP-610s, or maybe no amp if there's a decent stage monitor (sometimes regret not bringing an amp in this case)

 

Home: I mostly play VST's from MacBook to RME UFX II through studio monitors or headphones and have an Ashly LX308B (in same rack as RME) which is handy for using hardware kbs, drum machine etc.

 

I like your various methods.

 

The kl is obviously very popular and for a variety of reasons and purposes. I can clearly see its utility.

 

My 2 kb's (yam psre373, yam ck61) have built in speakers for totally self contained portability and simple low volume practicing.

[Dufffy]

1 minute ago, Stokely said:

KL has no EQ or effects, it's main thing (to me at least) is to submix transparently and "safely" as it has DIs built in.

I used a Soundcraft Notepad for many gigs, it's more similar to your Yamaha.  Also a couple different Mackies way back when, and a Rolls that ended up not getting much use.

If I had a bunch of hardware modules/keyboards and was recording onto a computer or other recording device, I'd personally want something as quiet and transparent and simple as possible, whatever that is.   Any effects or EQ I'd handle in the DAW, any mixing for that matter (I'd set the mixer channels all at nominal for gain/noise).   But different strokes there   

 

I understand. Noise is a big concern. I paid attention to this factor and tried to design a plan that would result in minimal noise, using available resources at hand. At average volume my system is silent. No noise or hissing. 

 

I understand that many of these factors can be manipulated virtually, resulting in significantly less noise.

 

My biggest noise problem is 'popping' sounds from the sound system resulting from unplugging components or the keyboard from the sound system. Similar to the popping from a PA system when unplugging something from the 'hot' system.

 

That popping always bothers me and it can result in expensive damage. It is a minor issue with my small 250w +/- sound system, whereas with a big PA this same condition could easily produce a spine tingling 'boom' that is sure to draw the attention of the sound man, audience and any others standing nearby.

 

I wish I knew of a easy way to mute the system from 'popping' sounds without needing to first shut down the whole sound system or PA. A mute button somewhere close at hand maybe ... My system is low power but with a 1000w monitor it sounds very different, for sure.

 

I still need to learn to disconnect /switch effects units etc., without making a loud 'boom'. I'm not an expert or professional but I know for sure that any sound man is going to go bezerk if you produce a super loud 'boom' thru his expensive speakers ... Furthermore I don't want to ruin my own expensive equipment. 

[Stokely]

Simply put, power down the amps/speakers.   I plug or unplug nothing without first verifying that the PA isn't live, and also it's good to give everyone a heads up for their monitors especially with in-ear systems.   Granted, everyone should have a limiter in their system but still.  I had our singer fiddling with her wireless mic before a show and it caused me a jolt in my ears, I was a bit unhappy.   Just tell me when you are messing with stuff like that and I'll take out my ears/turn way down.  I do have a limiter in my monitor mixer but it still got me a little bit.

[AROIOS]

The two common issues people encounter when they connect devices with a mixure of "consumer" audio I/O and "pro" audio I/O are:
1) volume; 2) noise from ambient electrical interference
 

1), volume mismatch, originates from the level difference between "consumer" and "pro" devices, the former are usually a lot quieter than the latter.
2) is usually a problem with unbalanced connections and doesn't affect balanced connections.
 

Your PSR-E keyboard has unbalanced output, which makes its connection to the mixer susceptible to 2), noise/interference, IF the cable runs long. Since you don't experience that, the cable is likely short enough, and/or the environment it operates in doesn't suffer from excessive electrical interference.

 

Your PSR-E's volume knob can boost the headphone/line output level at will. So problem 1) shouldn't be a concern. For gain staging, I would release the PAD button on mixer, set both the input GAIN and LEVEL at 0, play a demo tune on the keyboard, and gradually turn the keyboard volume knob until PEAK on the mixer starts flashing , then back off a bit.

 

Since you run XLR from mixer to the monitors, it's almost certainly a balanced connection. You're good in that leg of the audio connection.
 

As some folks already mentioned, you might get away with bypassing the mixer, since you can use the volume knob on your keyboard for gain staging, and most active speakers have a switch to select between -10dbv (consumer level) and +4dbu (pro level) input voltage. In other words, problem 1) is solved already without the mixer.
 

Regarding problem 2), unless the cable from the keyboard to the speakers are picking up too much noise, you're essentially just adding two extra volume knobs and a simple EQ to the signal chain. That said, there's little harm from doing that, as most modern mixers are transparent enough.