NYT Says Taylor Swift Is Bigger Than The Beatles!? WTF

[stoken6]

18 hours ago, ProfD said:

Maybe a Freudian slip.

Nah... a Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Tusker]

5 hours ago, CyberGene said:

I’m sure of that, big acts always have top gun musicians. 

 

For sure. And a professional pop operation is bigger than that. It's talent recognizing and collaborating with talent. Jack Antonoff with Taylor, Brian Eno with U2, George Martin and the Beatles, Quincy Jones with Michael, Glen Ballard with Alanis and so on. I am the biggest fan of Sir Paul, but he didn't score the strings for Eleanor Rigby.

[nadroj]

The hate I see for Taylor Swift is usually from older guys who have never listened to her, or younger guys who just think it’s cool to dunk on her (similar to the guys who think metal is the only good music in the world). Most of her detractors haven’t taken the time to listen to her. They just think “pop music bad”, or get stuck thinking “if it doesn’t sound like the music I came of age to it sucks” mindset.

 

Honestly, I think she is a world apart from the other pop princesses of the day. She is an excellent songwriter, she can play her own songs, and the collaborations she’s done (Bon Iver, The National, etc) are mostly with respectable pop artists of today, and are genuinely good. 
 

1989 is an excellent pop album, and they’ve only got better from there, but her stripped down lockdown stuff (Folklore/Evermore) was what really won me over, as they showed how mature she can be as a songwriter, and how she is a step above the usual mass produced pop drones. 
 

My only gripe with her is her ticket prices. My daughter and wife (and me to an extent) are massive Swifites, but we just couldn’t get tickets. The Eras Tour itself

is a marvel, and very well done, but the live show was restricted to a small percentage of her fans. 
 

It is ok to like Taylor Swift and Charlie Parker and Paul McCartney and The Allman Brothers and Slipknot and whoever the hell else you like.

 

Musical gatekeeping (especially the kind performed by a specific demographic) needs to stop. 

[Tusker]

45 minutes ago, nadroj said:

It is ok to like Taylor Swift and Charlie Parker and Paul McCartney and The Allman Brothers and Slipknot and whoever the hell else you like.

 

QFT

[CyberGene]

Well, it’s also OK to like Charlie Parker but dislike Taylor Swift. Or, is it not? Because I’m getting some hints of a bitter note that one is not allowed to dislike certain artists if they are very popular 🧐

[J.F.N.]

3 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

Well, it’s also OK to like Charlie Parker but dislike Taylor Swift. Or, is it not? Because I’m getting some hints of a bitter note that one is not allowed to dislike certain artists if they are very popular 🧐

 

Political correctness can be a b*tch!

 

🤣

[CyberGene]

On 6/30/2024 at 12:23 PM, Tusker said:

 

It also depends how lyrically oriented you are.

I forgot to reply to that. That’s a good explanation. I think I’ve commented along the same lines in the Rap thread. I’m more about music and always listen to music first and only if I like it, I will then see what the lyrics are. I’ll do that even with Bulgarian songs (my native language). With English songs I often can’t hear all the words well, so I have to search for the lyrics online. So, it could also be a language barrier for non-native English speakers and artists like Taylor Swift. And yes, to your point, musically TS is completely uninteresting to me. 

[ProfD]

43 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

Well, it’s also OK to like Charlie Parker but dislike Taylor Swift. 

Not that anyone else's opinion matters or permission is required but it is perfectly fine to like and dislike any artist or type of music. 

 

What is not so cool is to judge or criticize music or anything else that is of little or no interest personally.  

 

Especially when it comes to art that is not intended for your consumption anyway. 

 

If it does not sound good or is unrecognizable or whatever, just skip that music and write it off as something for another audience.

 

Taylor Swift's music is intended for a certain demographic.  Of course, outside folks are free to listen as well. 

 

Again, no need to judge or criticize.  Besides, that young lady is a billion dollar industry all by herself.😎

[MathOfInsects]

It's been vaguely hinted at but I don't anyone's mentioned something I think might be a factor, which is her babydoll voice. It's not raspy or weary, it's straight-down-the-middle "girl" voice with no vibrato, more like speaking than singing. I think it can give a sort of sheen or polish to her songs that make them sound less weighty to some (male) folks, and in my observation, most "converts" tend to be those who go in for a deeper look and discover the lyrics or humor underneath it, then listen differently after that. 

The great thing about those two pandemic albums was that she really mined her lower register, and felt older and sadder with those songs, only using her sing-song voice for sing-song sentiments. 

 

Also, I've mentioned this before, but as someone whose daughter is the undisputed boss of the music in the car, I've put my TS time in for sure, and I am reasonably sure at this point that she does not Autotune. If she does, they do any outstanding job of letting her wander off-pitch in a very human way while keeping the rest where it should be. So one more element "we" would otherwise find favorable, if it weren't embodied by the hot 6ft blonde with the babydoll voice and (poll be damned) mostly female fanbase. 

[nadroj]

It’s absolutely fine to not like her. Lots of people don’t. 
 

But I do think there’s a lot of unfair criticism aimed at her, from people who haven’t even listened to her. 
 

It’s the latest trend in people online (again, usually of a certain demographic…) spending their time and energy on something they don’t like/care about. 
 

It’s like the old Ricky Gervais joke of the guy who walks down the street and sees a sign for guitar lessons. He phones the number on the sign and tells the teacher “I DONT F**KING WANT GUITAR LESSONS”. 

 

 

[J.F.N.]

27 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

It's been vaguely hinted at but I don't anyone's mentioned something I think might be a factor, which is her babydoll voice. It's not raspy or weary, it's straight-down-the-middle "girl" voice with no vibrato, more like speaking than singing. I think it can give a sort of sheen or polish to her songs that make them sound less weighty to some (male) folks, and in my observation, most "converts" tend to be those who go in for a deeper look and discover the lyrics or humor underneath it, then listen differently after that. 

The great thing about those two pandemic albums was that she really mined her lower register, and felt older and sadder with those songs, only using her sing-song voice for sing-song sentiments. 

 

Also, I've mentioned this before, but as someone whose daughter is the undisputed boss of the music in the car, I've put my TS time in for sure, and I am reasonably sure at this point that she does not Autotune. If she does, they do any outstanding job of letting her wander off-pitch in a very human way while keeping the rest where it should be. So one more element "we" would otherwise find favorable, if it weren't embodied by the hot 6ft blonde with the babydoll voice and (poll be damned) mostly female fanbase. 

 

Auto-tune is industry standard, and if it's done with competence just to fix up tiny things, you won't hear it.

[Tusker]

The internet can be a sour place. Our community has been very supportive since I first signed on here.

 

I think people accept fair criticism and they rush to defend an artist when they feel that criticism is unfair. TS is not the only person to get criticized in our community. One of the prog keyboardists gets hit from time to time. A younger female jazz pianist gets hit from time to time. Neither of them are as popular as TS but they are generally well regarded in their genre. What could make criticism feel unfair?

 

A perception that an artist is held to different standards than other artists? 

A perception that objective information is ignored in favor of personal hunches?

 

The most honest opinion we can share is whether we like someone's music or not. That should always be considered fair.

[MathOfInsects]

41 minutes ago, J.F.N. said:

 

Auto-tune is industry standard, and if it's done with competence just to fix up tiny things, you won't hear it.

It certainly is. What I've noticed in her tracks is a prevalence of the types of small things that are usually pitch-corrected away. I can also attest to the fact that a whole generation of singers who have come up post Melodyne have learned an exactness of pitch that previous singers didn't necessary strive for; they think that's how they're supposed to sound. I get the impression TS is in a middle ground, with some pitch inexactness partially because she really speaks more than sings, but also with a very nicely developed sense of pitch when she does sing. As I say, it's possible it's just a very generous humanization setting, or they just let the mix take care of it and her moments off-pitch are what they are. I like it, either way. It's refreshing. 

[HSS]

2 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Well, it’s also OK to like Charlie Parker but dislike Taylor Swift. Or, is it not? Because I’m getting some hints of a bitter note that one is not allowed to dislike certain artists if they are very popular 🧐

Assuming you are Bulgarian, you should be careful when publicly expressing negative opinions about a major industrial American pop icon like Taylor Swift or we Americans might sanction your country. /s.  🙃

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, Tusker said:

The internet can be a sour place. Our community has been very supportive since I first signed on here.

True.  KC is supportive for the most part.

1 hour ago, Tusker said:

TS is not the only person to get criticized in our community. One of the prog keyboardists gets hit from time to time. A younger female jazz pianist gets hit from time to time. 

Add the YouTube influencer to that list. 🤣

 

KC is a great place to hang but the majority demographic here plays some part in how artists and musicians are judged.😎

[HSS]

This curmudgeon's radio DJ career is over:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-13583931/Greatest-Hits-Radio-presenter-Ken-Bruce-refuses-play-Taylor-Swift-songs-writes-isnt-ex-boyfriends.html

 

 

[Tusker]

51 minutes ago, HSS said:

This curmudgeon's radio DJ career is over:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-13583931/Greatest-Hits-Radio-presenter-Ken-Bruce-refuses-play-Taylor-Swift-songs-writes-isnt-ex-boyfriends.html

 

 

 

How about this one about her grandma? Should somebody send it to him? Maybe he would de-cancel her. Or would he find another reason? 😄

 

 

 

 

 

[BluMunk]

10 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

The great thing about those two pandemic albums was that she really mined her lower register, and felt older and sadder with those songs, only using her sing-song voice for sing-song sentiments. 

Concur, and I think that's part of why those albums really stand out to me (and, while I don't consider myself a fan, it's those albums that made me sit and take notice, and provided a gateway to the rest of her catalog).

In some ways, what I like about Taylor Swift is what I also like about Bruce Springsteen... he's got a very distinct voice, and his albums all sound like Bruce Springsteen albums, but he's taken many different approaches to genre, orchestration, songwriting, and subject matter over his career (despite the fact that popular discussion seems to think that Born to Run and Born in the USA are the be-all and end-all of his sound).

For my taste, I start to get tired of the extensive "writing about personal relationships, all of which sound bad in the same ways" songwriting (not 100%, but a high percentage). To carry over the Springsteen comparison, I think Tunnel of Love is a great album, but I don't need more of it. But that's just me. It also could be just the velocity with which she's released music lately and the repetitiveness with which my spouse plays those albums 😛  .

[J.F.N.]

 

 

[NewImprov]

Are we sure it wasn't just a misprint, and they meant to say that Taylor Swift is bigger than the Beato's?

[J.F.N.]