Does Anyone Think Collectors Will Value Some CDs Highly in the Future?

[Anderton]

I've been ripping my collection to put everything on a hard drive. Frankly, I'd forgotten how incredible some of those CD box sets are. There's a 5-CD set of Miles Davis Live at the Plugged Nickel, his complete Jack Johnson sessions, Coltrane collections, all the Motown hits, Stax/Volt, etc. all with booklets, lavish illustrations, etc. Even the EDM double- and triple-CD sets had cool artwork, and several are enhanced CDs with video material or Shockwave-compatible files (Shockwave is dead, but you can still find it and run it on Windows).

 

There's CD packaging that's simply gorgeous, and the mini-books that come with some of them are exquisite. 

 

Do you think at some point, collectors will covet these the same way they covet vinyl? It's a way better experience than streaming...and the fact that you can't download this kind of material is another reason why streaming devaluates music. Sure, I can stream Miles Davis or Yes or whatever...but that doesn't give me the background on the material, who was on it, how it was recorded, the cultural significance, etc.

 

These CD box sets remind me of when music was revered, not just thought of as something you consume in the background while you do other things.

 

[Thethirdapple]

Could see a similar interest in cd’s for audiophiles chasing SIDS and SPARS codes, similar to the sought after  “Japanese vinyl pressings”…

 

And for “marketing” and memorabilia collectors, I can see cd box sets retaining value. And there are a bunch of well produced packaging which makes them very similar to records, just smaller. Not everything got thrown into jewel cases…

 

No picture discs or weird cd plastic such as in the vinyl days, so its all about the packaging and not the actual cd which is too bad. i have a ton of specialty vinyl which are fun conversation pieces but cant for see ever selling. Almost forgot about bootleg editions which were huge! I have some great Beatles bootlegs from the late 90’s which were highly produced out of Germany.

 

Also I find cd’s of recordings from the 78rpm days a real value when listening repeatedly. 

 

At least some decent attempts were made in the marketing of cd’s, unlike in audio cassettes which always seemed like something we were stuck with, but nobody really wanted… 

 

 

 

PEACE

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[David Emm]

Someone will always value the artifacts of Back Then as contrasted with Now. I greatly enjoyed the added information and occasional stickers/poster/toys I got with LPs. Alice Cooper's "Muscle Of Love" came with a small inflatable heart, heh. I've always enjoyed the wild world of album art, but it was a distant second to the music for me. The libretto about the musicians and gear mattered more, aside from the inflatable pig hovering over the band when I saw "Animals" live. 

 

Picture discs played like crap and were only good for tacking to the wall. Japanese and German releases were excellent. OSHA nixed the use of certain chemicals in the U.S. that led to lousier pressings here, whereas the other two simply built closed systems that kept them in-house. I'd commit those to tape on the first playing and be in great shape. My cassettes of those things are nice & full, so it depends on the quality of your deck. I had a Pioneer that was kissin' sweet.  

 

I'm glad I got to embrace the LP Age and colorful consumer crap like t-shirts. Likewise getting to see 2- and 3-band concerts for $15. $1700 to see Beyonce? How fortunate to be a few light years too far back to be enmeshed in this phase of things. As Zappa once said, "I don't care much for concerts. I don't need a 13-year-old person puking on my shoes." 🤨 

[Notes_Norton]

Everything popular becomes valuable if you keep it long enough.

 

I suspect some limited runs of some very successful artists will be worth a lot someday. But my CDs are worth a lot to me right now, in listening enjoyment. 

I have some CDs that you can't find online because I have very varied tastes. My tastes run from the common to the very uncommon. Many of these titles can't be found on YouTube, and IMO the fidelity of the CD usually sounds better than the streaming compression anyway.

 

I suspect something I own will be worth a lot of money someday, but I'll probably not know it.

I had a Selmer Mark VI saxophone when I was young. I bought it new for $600, which was retail price. I gigged with it for years, and traded it in on newer saxophones. Well the Mark VI became the absolute most collectable sax ever made.

 

One in good shape, with original lacquer goes for about $6K today. $600 in 1960 buys what $6,260.12 buys today. So if I didn't play it much, didn't have it relacquered 3 or 4 times, I would be worth about what I paid for it in 1960. I suspect many collectables simply are hedges against inflation. Some probably do much better and others much worse.

So instead of saving it for a hedge against inflation, I played it. I became first sax in the all-state band every year I was in school, I went on the road and eventually opened for headliners in concert, recorded in Motown, and was treated as a peer by the stars of the day. I used my sax to meet and become intimate with more than my share of pretty girls/women. 

I traded that VI for a VII, then an H.Couf, followed by a Grassi, followed by a custom-made in Taiwan horn, and I have it and a Yamaha now, both of which have better intonation than my 1960 Mark VI. They make saxes better now.

 

Some of my LPs and CDs may be worth some money, but unless they are worth a fortune, I'm really not interestd.

 

Notes ♫

[ProfD]

On 6/10/2024 at 3:32 PM, Anderton said:

I've been ripping my collection to put everything on a hard drive.

 

Do you think at some point, collectors will covet these the same way they covet vinyl? 

The short answer is...Nope. 😁

 

Vinyl collectors are shrinking. 8 track and cassette tape collectors never really existed. 

 

While a few younger people are digging it, the vinyl resurgence mainly appeals to Gen-Xers and baby boomers. 

 

CDs already consist of digitized data.  All of that data will eventually get ripped and end up in a Cloud.

 

Artists and musicians don't even have to burn CDs nowadays. Whether studio or live gig, just record and upload the files for download.

 

A generation of people (Millennials and future) will have grown up with mp3 players and streaming data.  They do not have the same attachment to physical media.

 

CD players have been removed from both computers and vehicles.  Just USB ports. 

 

If someone became enthusiastic about CDs, they would have to track down a CD player.  That will be a niche audience. 😎

[Anderton]

5 minutes ago, ProfD said:

If someone became enthusiastic about CDs, they would have to track down a CD player.  That will be a niche audience. 😎

 

Blu-Ray, XBox, and other optical players can still play audio CDs. So as long as there's optical media (which is iffy, but you never know...), there should be a way to play CDs. I see vinyl as similar to classic cars. No one really drives them around to go to the supermarket, they just like the classic cars. Some niche audiences stick around. Besides, I think collectors would be collecting the elaborate packaging more than the sound - just like the vinyl people who are more interested in the album jackets than the albums.

 

But I wouldn't count out optical media just yet. A recent process has the potential to create optical media that can store 125 Terabytes of data. Although commercial applications won't be here for a while, the financial incentives to create a storage medium that can store this much data in a CD-sized disc is HUGE. Remember, linear tape remain the preferred storage medium for many enterprise operations that need to archive huge amounts of data. 125 Terabyte optical discs would end tape's dominance.

 

Chinese researchers at the University of Shanghai are developing a different process based on multi-layer discs that could potentially store a couple hundred terabytes of data.

 

Again, the financial incentives to make either option happen are off the charts. Hopefully one or the other process will become commercially viable!

 

[Ivan May]

Oh come on now! I could never get rid of my CD collections, let alone any of my CD players! I'd miss those things a lot!

 

I still own a lot of CDs. I cannot tell you how many Fleetwood Mac CDs I have worn out, along with my Heart and Beatles CDs. I wish I could buy some of those remastered imports, but I am not rich. Tis a pity.

 

I still collect CDs (kids, ask your parents if they remember CDs, they were these tiny silver discs that you put into your car's stereo.) A lot of people said that the CD would be phased out by 2000, and unfortunately tey were right. But I am a very retro kind of person, and I still take my time and go to thrift stores to find as many CDs and DVDs I could come across.

[Anderton]

In my case, a lot of it's about convenience. Once they're digitized, I can dedicate a old computer as a server, and have music anywhere in the house. It also means my phone can have a LOT of music on it, and I can open up more space on the walls for art instead of piles of CDs. 

 

If I was going to live forever, I might hold on to them

[ProfD]

7 hours ago, Anderton said:

Blu-Ray, XBox, and other optical players can still play audio CDs.

Yep. I use a PS4 to play DVDs and streaming on a non-smart TV.

7 hours ago, Anderton said:

But I wouldn't count out optical media just yet. A recent process has the potential to create optical media that can store 125 Terabytes of data...a storage medium that can store this much data in a CD-sized disc is HUGE.

Agreed. An optical device of some kind will always exist.

 

A storage device capable of holding 125 TB would be a PPC (Personal Portable Cloud). Maybe I should trademark it. 😁

 

A 125 TB PPC would hold an entire collection of music and movies. It would eliminate a bookshelf or box filled with CDs and DVDs.😎

[Notes_Norton]

When something old becomes valuable, it's usually not for its utility, but for its nostalgia and rarity.

It's a strange, but universal human behavior. That Model T Ford won't get you to the grocery store comfortably, take the Toyota. That Van Gogh is as beautiful as a good reproduction, and he couldn't sell it while he was alive. The LP in the “Yesterday And Today” isn't different between the butcher cover and the replacement. That baseball that Mickey Mantle had a home run with and signed isn't really worth more than a generic baseball. Those “Ruby Slippers” from Disney's “Oz” movie aren't worth millions, neither is one of Eric Clapton's early guitars.

What makes these items collectible and worth a lot of money? We do. Collectibles are not about their functional value, but their collectible value, and nothing more. I have a copy of Led Zeppelin. The one that doesn't have the old blues masters names under the song titles. It's pretty worn out from having less than pristine stereo equipment, plus many intoxicants ingested while playing it. If pristine, how much would it be worth? 

 

I wore out more than one LP of Stan Getz's "Focus" LP and now have the CD.

 

Or how do we know when something will become valuable, decades down the road? If you saved the first edition of “Mad” Magazine, it would probably be worth a fortune today. But in 1952 did you know that? Mrs. Notes saved the first edition of “Omni” magazine by accident. We found it while cleaning storage, and it wasn't worth anything.

 

So I suppose, in years to come, some CDs, VHS tapes, and early pre-IBM-PC computers will be worth some money. But which ones? How valuable? And do you have the room to preserve everything in pristine shape in the chance that one of those pieces of nostalgia will be worth a fortune?

Just thinking out loud here.

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, Notes_Norton said:

When something old becomes valuable, it's usually not for its utility, but for its nostalgia and rarity.

It's a strange, but universal human behavior. 

What makes these items collectible and worth a lot of money? We do. Collectibles are not about their functional value, but their collectible value, and nothing more.

 

Just thinking out loud here.

You're spot on in that assessment.

 

In our lifetime, we have seen things go from cheap when initially sold and worthless when superseded by technology and over-priced on the used market. 

 

Electromechanical KBs and analog synths are great examples.  Both became useless when the Yamaha DX7 hit the market. 

 

ROMplers and samplers turned electromechanical KBs and analog synths into junk throughout the 1990s. 

 

Nowadays, electromechanical KBs and analog synths have become *vintage gear*.  Used prices reflect it.

 

The funny thing is that newer technology is a *better* value in terms of features, functionality, reliability and maintenance.

 

Right now, there is a used Yamaha CS-80 synth listed for $62k.  A brand new Yamaha Montage M6 is $3.5k🤣😎

[Nowarezman]

Every time I hear someone say, "nah, no one will ever want this old junk", another little voice inside me says, "hmmm...sounds like something to hold onto or buy more of now while everyone thinks it's worthless".  

 

There are always reasons to think something will never be a desirable thing - the TB-303 comes to mind.  A total failure, what a piece of crap!  Said just about everybody circa 1981 -  and they were right if you consider the context of the times when it was produced.

 

Right now, in our context, with unlimited streamed music available for free or close to it, it seems that no one will need the old junk, the personally owned physical recorded music thingie.  But contexts can change - who knows?  It could maybe be a crime to stream music at some point in the future.  Or the internet will come under strict control, dolled out as a public utility, each bit and bite censored and charged for according to market or governmental dictates.  Maybe someone like me will only be able to afford four hours of government-streamed music per month or something....things will change, no question.  There's no reason to believe that access will just keep getting easier and cheaper and more comprehensive forever.   We can all see various possible crises rolling this way...plus the ones we can't see.  Things will change and not always for the better by a long shot.

But of course some things will be rendered totally obsolete.  Well, then they are historical artifacts, no?  And markets spring up around just about anything scarce.

 

What I see now is the rapid disappearance of wooden furniture.  Grandma's old clunky Mediterranean sideboard?  Ugly, old, needs repair, coated with a grimy film of nicotine, no one wants this kind of stuff.  I'd like to fill some warehouses with all the unwanted wooden furniture like that - if not for my sake, for the sake of my heirs....

 

nat

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

Before people write off cassettes, check out this video (and much of what is said is relevant to the CD discussion as well)...

 

 

[Anderton]

2 hours ago, ProfD said:

What makes these items collectible and worth a lot of money? We do. Collectibles are not about their functional value, but their collectible value, and nothing more.

 

According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, "Dutch tulip mania was an early example of the greater fool theory—the willingness to buy an asset not because of its fundamental value but because of the belief that someone else is likely to pay an even higher price than you did."

 

In other words, cryptocurrency 😆🤣 

[ProfD]

3 hours ago, Nowarezman said:

There are always reasons to think something will never be a desirable thing - the TB-303 comes to mind.  A total failure, what a piece of crap!  Said just about everybody circa 1981 -  and they were right if you consider the context of the times when it was produced.

Right.  Another example of how something becomes of value after someone uses it creatively and successfully. 

 

We assign value to things based on its importance or popularity in use.

 

3 hours ago, Nowarezman said:

Right now, in our context, with unlimited streamed music available for free or close to it, it seems that no one will need the old junk, the personally owned physical recorded music thingie.

The transition from vinyl to tape to laser disc was seamless enough.  If the same information has been digitized and stored in multiple places, there's a good chance it won't get lost. 

 

Besides, there's already plenty of discarded physical media floating around already.  Locally, there is a shop that has hundreds of boxes of old vinyl.  They have CDs and DVDs too.  Similar places will always exist just like libraries and bookstores.

 

3 hours ago, Nowarezman said:

What I see now is the rapid disappearance of wooden furniture.  Grandma's old clunky Mediterranean sideboard?  Ugly, old, needs repair, coated with a grimy film of nicotine, no one wants this kind of stuff. 

At one point in time, good furniture was a family heirloom passed down from one generation to the next. 

 

Furniture has definitely become a disposable good within project planned obsolescence.  Exhibit A....IKEA.🤣

2 hours ago, Anderton said:

According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, "Dutch tulip mania was an early example of the greater fool theory—the willingness to buy an asset not because of its fundamental value but because of the belief that someone else is likely to pay an even higher price than you did."

 

In other words, cryptocurrency 😆🤣 

I cannot take credit for the quote that preceded your message.  That quote belongs to Notes_Norton.😎

[David Emm]

There are two treasured collectibles that are staying right where they are:

 my E-mu Planet Earth module and my Max Rebo, the Star Wars cantina band "keyboardist."

[analogika]

On 6/10/2024 at 9:32 PM, Anderton said:

Do you think at some point, collectors will covet these the same way they covet vinyl?

 

Yes: 
https://www.discogs.com/digs/collecting/most-expensive-cds/

 

But mostly just for the rarity, and not at all for the "vibe", that we associate with vinyl. 

Though of course vinyl prices are dictated by rarity, as well. 

[Anderton]

Thanks, I looked at the list. Of course, I don't have any of these CDs 😬 

[Thethirdapple]

Perhaps “value” is here as it is always…

in the eye of the beholder

 

Value in the items I collect is personal, and most likely of no “value” to a bank.

As touchstones, physical objects can create and foster memories of self as my capacities wane.

The cd’s, I own arent about the music, arent about the artist, isnt about the cover art, and certainly isnt about a resell value! They are about the shared experiences with others…

 

There are definitely items I have, as a sort of nest egg with some vague notion of a market trend which may well burst at some point. Hopefully not before I cash out… my dad always said that money burns a hole in my pocket, so I figure, can’t put vintage computers in my pocket 🙃

 

Oh and luckily none of my cd’s are on that list either, crisis avoided!

 

 

PEACE

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[analogika]

17 hours ago, Anderton said:

Thanks, I looked at the list. Of course, I don't have any of these CDs 😬 

 

It might be worth cataloguing your collection via the Discogs app. It can scan barcodes to add the record, IIRC, and it gives you at least a rough ballpark of what the value might be, based on sales via the Discogs marketplace. 

 

I'm very, very gently beginning to catalogue my vinyl (56 of about 4,000 done so far, yay!).

 

A few days ago, I looked up an NPG vinyl ("Exodus") that was a sort of throwaway vinyl release at the time — the cover was just a blown-up print of the CD booklet, the mastering somewhat uncharitable, and the whole thing just kind of thrown out there in a tiny batch for those very few morons who refused to buy the CD (me!) — and was positively shocked to find that it goes for around 400€ these days. 

[Notes_Norton]

If you had an original Barbie doll in the box, and put it in storage, you could be a rich person today. But who knew Barbie was going to be worth that much? A have a cousin who collected some dolls that were designed to be collectors items, but all she has are worthless dolls.

I doubt any of my CDs are going to be worth much, because I don't have “Barbie” tastes. Most are jazz, symphonies, and other forms of music that were never number one with a bullet. I enjoy and learn number one with a bullet songs for my career. But I don't keep them around. I'd rather play them than listen to them. I keep things that I can't play, either for technical or economic reasons (a sax player can't make money from a Shostakovitch symphony or playing any jazz gigs around here).

How do you know that if you kept that 1957 Chevy in original condition, it would be worth twice what that a 1956 or 1958 is worth?

Who would have thought the paintings that Van Gogh couldn't sell in his lifetime would be worth a fortune today?

When I was a kid, I had Mickey Mantle and Roger Maris baseball cards. They got eaten up in the spokes of my bicycle. How was I to know?

If I could predict what will become a collector's item in the future, I'd go into the consulting business and make some real money.

 

Notes ♫

[analogika]

If kids like you hadn't let their bicycle spokes eat those baseball cards, the few remaining ones would not be worth a fortune today. That's kind of the point. 

[Anderton]

10 hours ago, analogika said:

A few days ago, I looked up an NPG vinyl ("Exodus")

 

Do you mean the Bob Marley "Exodus"?

[Thethirdapple]

New Power Generation?

 

The whole formerly known as artist studio music production company, post Paisley, if I remember correctly

 

 

 

 

 

PEACE

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[analogika]

2 hours ago, Anderton said:

 

Do you mean the Bob Marley "Exodus"?

No, although I do have a UK pressing of that which has a completely different master (with different mixes, in fact! There’s a whole bunch of piano on “Jamming” that’s not in the more welll-known mix. 
 

NPG - Prince, post-Prince. He shows up under a pseudonym and usually only features briefly or does the choirs (and of course the guitars), but it’s his production. 

[AnotherScott]

On the topic of "something physical," this is interesting...

 

https://shop.getthegoodz.com/collections/frontpage

 

check the Home, About, and Custom links up top to get the full picture.

[Dave Bryce]

I wonder if there's a service that can stream the surround/multichannel audio discs I own?  I love those...

 

Obviously it's possible, since movies and concerts stream in surround and ATMOS.

 

Honestly, I quite like the process of picking a CD, putting it in the player, and listening to it from end to end - something I also love about the vinyl experience.  I'm fairly sure that makes me somewhat of an outlier. 

 

dB

[Nowarezman]

The big problem with non-focused listening, which is seemingly the norm (music as  background to other stuff, etc.) is that you can tire of having music on without having really listened to any music at all.  That's a lose-lose situation if ever there was one....

 

nat

 

[Anderton]

On 6/16/2024 at 10:01 AM, AnotherScott said:

On the topic of "something physical," this is interesting...

 

That's interesting, bizarre, clever, and possibly a bit disturbing, all at once.

[RABid]

Pre-recorded CDs have an expected longevity of 50 to 100 years. I have vinyl records over 50 that play just fine. I have CD's that are hitting 40 that are starting to show some discoloration and degradation. Plastic really does not last forever, and neither does that extremely thin reflective material. DVD's are faring much worse. When production was moved overseas and they started skimping on materials you could actually hold a DVD in your hand and see through it. A lot of cheap collection DVDs, such as full series of TV shows, had issues from the beginning and problems get worse over time.