PX-5S and Fantom 06 for the win!

[EscapeRocks]

Brought out the PX5S (version 2 for me as I had to retire the infamous red one)

Paired with my new Fantom 06

 

Playing our annual headlining slot yesterday (Sunday afternoon)

It was/is a perfect paring

MIDI Din in and out connected them.

Very simple as far as pedals.   Sustain connected to PX5S, and Expression connected to Fantom.

Thru deep menu diving on both boards, I can get each to control the other the way I want.  It does take some time due to each board's 'unique' ways

It is time well spent.

 

One main thing I want to say:  This is the first time in a very long time I've gigged with a PX5S.  It was a straight 2 hour set.   I had forgotten how much I like playing these keys.  I can get very nuanced.  My hands don't get fatigued.   Also, the way I can setup the Fantom on a patch by patch basis, using an expression pedal on the PX5S is EASY.

 

I can go into much more detail later, as I know there's been old threads on Casio Forum about getting the PX5S and new Fantom and Fantom 0 to be nice to each other.

Here's a couple shots during set up and sound check.

 

This PX5S will remain in its factory finish. @Mike Martin   

 

 

 

[Mike Martin]

@EscapeRocks

[Paul Woodward]

Reminded me that I owned a PX-5S while I was still honing my 3D modelling chops. Much Star Wars livery followed.

[CHarrell]

9 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

Reminded me that I owned a PX-5S while I was still honing my 3D modelling chops. Much Star Wars livery followed.

 

Most impressive!

 

Thanks for the report, David! I hope to do my first gig with the PX5S soon!

[BluMunk]

What a well-timed thread... I was debating whether or not to start a "hey, I'm still loving my PX5S", and now I can just comment here!

I've been using mine pretty steadily as a Mainstage controller for theater gigs, but I'm doing a show now (opens Wednesday night) where the programming needs are straightforward so I am just rolling my own with the Casio.

 

It's just a joy to play. I think using in-ear monitoring is adding to the experience, but the piano sound is great, and like David says, the action allows for a lot of dynamic control with no fatigue. 

Just this morning, I started re-watching @Mike Martin's clinic videos to remind myself of some functionality, tips and tricks.

Yes, I have a small list of improvements I'd like to see, but at least on paper I don't think there's another instrument out there I'd replace this with. If mine ever dies, I'll look for another.

[CHarrell]

26 minutes ago, BluMunk said:

but the piano sound is great

 

Do you use the stock sound? I've seen mixed opinions on that era of Casio sampling, do you have any issues with decay or anything?

[Mike Martin]

21 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

Do you use the stock sound? I've seen mixed opinions on that era of Casio sampling, do you have any issues with decay or anything?

 

The piano sound in our newer instruments is definitely better in that they use longer samples, more dynamic layers and the modeling aspects are much improved. That being said the PX-5S sample is great. There is something that Casio has done in their recording / mixing process that just makes these samples "work".  They sound great live and don't fall apart in mono IMO.

[CHarrell]

3 minutes ago, Mike Martin said:

 

The piano sound in our newer instruments is definitely better in that they use longer samples, more dynamic layers and the modeling aspects are much improved. That being said the PX-5S sample is great. There is something that Casio has done in their recording / mixing process that just makes these samples "work".  They sound great live and don't fall apart in mono IMO.

 

I assume you're referring to instruments such as the PXS line? Out of curiosity, how many layers do they use? The PX5S generation used 4 and AiR, yeah?

[BluMunk]

50 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

 

Do you use the stock sound? I've seen mixed opinions on that era of Casio sampling, do you have any issues with decay or anything?

Yes, I'm using the stock sound - the ConcertGrand stage setting is my go-to.

I have in the past been disappointed with the length of the sample/sound, but I only ever feel that way in the 'studio'... every time I take it out on a gig I forget I ever took issue with it. 

 

[CHarrell]

8 minutes ago, BluMunk said:

Yes, I'm using the stock sound - the ConcertGrand stage setting is my go-to.

I have in the past been disappointed with the length of the sample/sound, but I only ever feel that way in the 'studio'... every time I take it out on a gig I forget I ever took issue with it. 

 

 

Thanks. I've been trying to cultivate that mindset this yar, "live vs studio". In fact, I bought the PX5S originally because it's in my opinion the best lightweight hammer action MIDI controller out there, and use it to play my software live, but the more I've thought about, the more enticing it is to just be able to take the board out and use the onboard sounds! I know the fidelity and detail won't quite be on par with my Ravenscrofts and VTines' etc., but if there's enough detail and life in the sounds, particularly the acoustic piano and Rhodes, where I can feel expressive in a variety of contexts--lately it's been either piano/bass duets or more aggressive bands--then maybe that's all I need on the go after all.

 

Just to confirm, there's no CP80/electric grand sound on the PX outside of GM, yeah? 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, Mike Martin said:

The piano sound in our newer instruments is definitely better in that they use longer samples, more dynamic layers and the modeling aspects are much improved. That being said the PX-5S sample is great. There is something that Casio has done in their recording / mixing process that just makes these samples "work".  They sound great live and don't fall apart in mono IMO.

 

Credit where credit is due...  this tweaked version you posted in the Casio forum fixed everything that bugged me about the stock PX-5S piano sound. 🙂

 

https://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/files/file/5-pianoaltatk/

 

 

[Mike Martin]

44 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

ust to confirm, there's no CP80/electric grand sound on the PX outside of GM, yeah? 

 

There is not. That was added on some of our newer instruments. 
I now own a CP-70B. I'll see if there is anything I can with the existing PX-5S samples to make something better.

[CHarrell]

23 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

Credit where credit is due...  this tweaked version you posted in the Casio forum fixed everything that bugged me about the stock PX-5S piano sound. 🙂

 

https://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/files/file/5-pianoaltatk/

 

 

 

Thanks for the link, Scott! Is there an audio demo of this one anywhere? What issues did this solve for you?

[Mike Martin]

The PX-5S has some powerful envelopes - while there are some limitations to what you can do in a tone vs a HexLayer I think I can remember what I did.

The envelope has an Initial Attack level which I lowered about 10-20%. 

Attack Time was slowed to get to the Attack Level at 127, then increased the multiple decay envelopes as much as possible without getting a swell in the level - this was the most challenging part.  The result is something with a more subtle attack and a more melodic sustain sound. 

[CHarrell]

1 hour ago, Mike Martin said:

The PX-5S has some powerful envelopes - while there are some limitations to what you can do in a tone vs a HexLayer I think I can remember what I did.

The envelope has an Initial Attack level which I lowered about 10-20%. 

Attack Time was slowed to get to the Attack Level at 127, then increased the multiple decay envelopes as much as possible without getting a swell in the level - this was the most challenging part.  The result is something with a more subtle attack and a more melodic sustain sound. 

 

Thanks! That must've been fun. 😂I still haven't downloaded the "All" patch update you put out years ago, but I might check this one out as well.

[EscapeRocks]

5 hours ago, BluMunk said:

Yes, I'm using the stock sound - the ConcertGrand stage setting is my go-to.

I have in the past been disappointed with the length of the sample/sound, but I only ever feel that way in the 'studio'... every time I take it out on a gig I forget I ever took issue with it. 

 

Yes.  It is also wonderful with Mainstage etc.  

I find it to be fantastic with PianoTeq Pro and Keyscape. 
Taking the time to get the velocity settings detailed in each program really make it shine. 

[AnotherScott]

4 hours ago, CHarrell said:

What issues did this solve for you?

 As Mike alluded to, it provided a gentler attack, which got rid of a bit of "plunkiness" that I am very sensitive to. But also, his changes reduced the dynamic range, which seemed exaggerated to me, making it too easy for a quiet note to practically disappear, or a louder note to jump out too forcefully. I found it tough to play evenly on, the notes would come out with more dynamic variation than intended (based on how I play on an acoustic). Mike's modified version addressed that as well.

[Jose EB5AGV]

As a sidenote... Is 500€ a good price for a lightly used, five years old, boxed unit?

[David Emm]

10 hours ago, Jose EB5AGV said:

As a sidenote... Is 500€ a good price for a lightly used, five years old, boxed unit?

 

It is, but if you can, play it and see *how* lightly its been used. Modestly used synths saved my arse repeatedly, upping my game several times. Looking back, they held up as well as the brand new ones I bought. Just baby it a little more out of sensible caution.

[miden]

@Mike Martin  truly wish you folks at Casio would re-release the 560!!

[BluMunk]

On 4/29/2024 at 9:52 PM, AnotherScott said:

As Mike alluded to, it provided a gentler attack, which got rid of a bit of "plunkiness" that I am very sensitive to.

Maybe it's just because you mentioned it, but I am definitely noticing that sharp attack more as I sit at the keyboard day after day. In rehearsals, when I was just running through a Yamaha powered speaker in a boxy room I didn't notice it, but with in-ears I don't have the benefit of room acoustics to mellow out the tone.

 

For this project (a rock musical), it's giving me exactly the sound I need. Even the ballads are well served by a sharp and bright piano tone. And, as band leader in that context, it helps me feel like I can guide the rest of the band with a lot of precision. That said, something with a little more finesse would be a good pairing and second option to the default. I'll grab Mike's re-working from the casio forums and try it out!

[CHarrell]

I was actually getting pretty down about the PX5S, the keys were just feeling so chunky and clunky to me. But then, a couple days ago...I don't know what I did, I didn't touch the velocity settings, maybe I just cut the lows down and boosted the overall volume? Suddenly, I found the keys feeling really light, expressive, and nimble, and it's been hard for me to think about other things because I just enjoy the experience of playing it so much. After adjusting some software velocity curves, hammer response, latency buffer, and volume output, I was able to get the same experience with my VSTs too, so I'm really happy.

 

I do feel a little sloppy on the keys for certain things--in this regard, I think the newer generation(s) of Casio portable actions are superior, more firm and precise--but for the moment, I'm really excited to start doing shows with such a lightweight, comprehensive, and good-feeling instrument.

 

I need to try out the AltAttack setting again now that I've got this stuff sorted out, but I've been really enjoying the stock Grand Piano 0-0 setting after a quick counterclockwise turn on K1 to bring down the lows. 

[CHarrell]

I want to make sure I'm not missing something, is there a way to have two DSP effects on a sound simultaneously? For example, if I wanted say a phaser and a pitch shifter on a piano? I know each zone can have its own DSP, and I've experimented with that by having two zones with the same tone but different DSP, but I'm not satisfied with the result as opposed to the one sound being processed in the same signal chain. 

[omvibes]

A minor question: is that a mini mixer on the right side of the PX5S? If so, what model is it? Has the exact form factor I'm looking for for another application. 

[Mike Martin]

10 hours ago, CHarrell said:

I want to make sure I'm not missing something, is there a way to have two DSP effects on a sound simultaneously? For example, if I wanted say a phaser and a pitch shifter on a piano? I know each zone can have its own DSP, and I've experimented with that by having two zones with the same tone but different DSP, but I'm not satisfied with the result as opposed to the one sound being processed in the same signal chain. 

 

It is one DSP effect per zone. There are options to change the system chorus that might get you close to a phaser and still provide the pitch shifter or other effect as the insert DSP.