Hacking my Focusrite Scarlett (looking for a second opinion before buying more gear)

[KeyboardEric]

I'm hoping to control several tracks in my DAW from an analog mixer via my Sarlett 4i4. Yesterday I set it up and was able to control 2 separate mono tracks by routing the outputs 1+2 into an analog mixer and assigning them in my DAW. I tried to route a 3rd output but was unsuccessful in controling that from my mixer even though the signal came through loud and clear. The knob did nothing for channel/track 3.

 

After contacting their tech support they made it clear that this is not the Scarlett's intended purpose and I must buy more of their other gear in order to reach my goal. I feel like maybe that's incorrect?

 

My goal: control 3 mono source tracks in my DAW from the analog mixer, by simply routing them through the hardware outputs of my Scarlett. This seems do-able on paper but perhaps not?

 

I'm using Reaper, if that matters. Any thoughts? 🙏

[Sean M. H.]

What mixer are you using?

 

But more importantly...What exactly do you mean by "control" the tracks?  If you're routing the tracks to an analog mixer, then the most you could do would be to adjust the levels/gain and apply whatever EQ is built into the mixer*...but to be clear, you're not really "controlling" the tracks (i.e....you won't see the knob or fader on the software moving). 

 

 

...when someone says "control," I tend to assume they mean using hardware to adjust the various parameters and sounds of the computer software...if this is what you're trying to do, the right tool for the job is a MIDI control surface...not a "mixer".  

 

I don't think the Focusrite is the problem here...unless I'm totally misunderstanding what you're trying to accomplish.

 

*Note...sending audio tracks out through your interface, to an analog mixer, is in fact a "thing"...but it's typically done in professional studios, where the mixer in question costs as much as a house, and adds something special to the sound...or in live settings, where you are sending individual tracks/stems to FOH...but again, I'm not sure if that's what you're ultimately trying to accomplish.

[Docbop]

I've never seen or used Reaper, but currently getting up to speed with Ableton Live. In Ableton's configuration for Audio section you can setup routing to all the your audio interfaces outputs so you could send your tracks to whatever output on your Focusrite you want.   I would imagine Reaper probably has the same capabilities to  map your outputs and then route your audio track to any of those outputs.     

[J.F.N.]

The 4i4 has 4 physical inputs, and 4 physical outputs, which you will find, all of them, in your DAW. You are talking about a mixer, what mixer is that? If you want to route 4 channels from the mixer to 4 of the physical inputs on the 4i4, the mixer needs to be compatible with your strategy here.

[D. Gauss]

I'm recording/mixing in Reaper 8 hours or more a day 5 days a week. Lot going on in your post and not a lot to go by.  Assuming your interface is truly 4 in/4 out, this shouldn't be a prob. Also assuming your audio is leaving reaper...going to the interface..then to the analog mixer...then to some powered speakers or headphones to hear.

-first in reaper device configuration make sure your interface shows up with 4 channels out. If not, you should be able to select all 4 outputs there then save.

-be mindful that the default send for every channel is 1 and 2.(master bus) Unless you disable/change that, even if you send to ch 3, it is still going to 1 and 2 as well.  

 

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish with the hardware mixer. If it is just to have some hands on faders to touch vs. a mouse, you may be better off just using your phone or tablet and control the reaper mixer via the built in web browser OSC touch mixer. 

[KeyboardEric]

1 hour ago, Sean M. H. said:

What mixer are you using?

 

But more importantly...What exactly do you mean by "control" the tracks?  If you're routing the tracks to an analog mixer, then the most you could do would be to adjust the levels/gain and apply whatever EQ is built into the mixer*...but to be clear, you're not really "controlling" the tracks (i.e....you won't see the knob or fader on the software moving). 

 

 

...when someone says "control," I tend to assume they mean using hardware to adjust the various parameters and sounds of the computer software...if this is what you're trying to do, the right tool for the job is a MIDI control surface...not a "mixer".  

 

I don't think the Focusrite is the problem here...unless I'm totally misunderstanding what you're trying to accomplish.

 

*Note...sending audio tracks out through your interface, to an analog mixer, is in fact a "thing"...but it's typically done in professional studios, where the mixer in question costs as much as a house, and adds something special to the sound...or in live settings, where you are sending individual tracks/stems to FOH...but again, I'm not sure if that's what you're ultimately trying to accomplish.

I just mean to control the volume level of the DAW track(s) using the corresponding faders on the analog mixer. Sorry for the misnomer.

 

It's kind of an experiment to see if I could possibly perform this way live - being able to manipulate some individual levels before sending them to the house engineer. Maybe it's a dumb idea though.

[KeyboardEric]

1 hour ago, Docbop said:

I've never seen or used Reaper, but currently getting up to speed with Ableton Live. In Ableton's configuration for Audio section you can setup routing to all the your audio interfaces outputs so you could send your tracks to whatever output on your Focusrite you want.   I would imagine Reaper probably has the same capabilities to  map your outputs and then route your audio track to any of those outputs.     

yes, same with Reaper! This is what I'm attempting to do.

[KeyboardEric]

1 hour ago, J.F.N. said:

The 4i4 has 4 physical inputs, and 4 physical outputs, which you will find, all of them, in your DAW. You are talking about a mixer, what mixer is that? If you want to route 4 channels from the mixer to 4 of the physical inputs on the 4i4, the mixer needs to be compatible with your strategy here.

It's a generic analog mixer, a Spirit Notepad with four mono channels and 2 stereo. By no means high end gear. I'm actually routing outputs from the 4i4 to the inputs of the mixer and then sending a stereo out signal to my studio monitors. It seems to be compatible so far... but maybe I'm going out about it all wrong.

[KeyboardEric]

50 minutes ago, D. Gauss said:

I'm recording/mixing in Reaper 8 hours or more a day 5 days a week. Lot going on in your post and not a lot to go by.  Assuming your interface is truly 4 in/4 out, this shouldn't be a prob. Also assuming your audio is leaving reaper...going to the interface..then to the analog mixer...then to some powered speakers or headphones to hear.

-first in reaper device configuration make sure your interface shows up with 4 channels out. If not, you should be able to select all 4 outputs there then save.

-be mindful that the default send for every channel is 1 and 2.(master bus) Unless you disable/change that, even if you send to ch 3, it is still going to 1 and 2 as well.  

 

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish with the hardware mixer. If it is just to have some hands on faders to touch vs. a mouse, you may be better off just using your phone or tablet and control the reaper mixer via the built in web browser OSC touch mixer. 

cheers! your assumptions are accurate.

 

I'm pretty sure I have Reaper configured to have the Output Range to 4. At least that's what it's showing in the Preferences under Audio - Device.

 

Yes, track 3 is getting routed to 1 and 2. I think this is my issue. I've unchecked Master Send on all three of my tracks and routed them using Hardware Outputs. 1 and 2 are working the way I envision but 3 gets routed to 1 and 2. Under "Add Sends", there are only 2 listed and also Parent Channels showing are 1-2 or 1, 2. No 3-4 anywhere there...

 

Hope that narrows it down. Maybe there is a better way to do this?

Thanks for the thoughtful responses.

[Sean M. H.]

40 minutes ago, KeyboardEric said:

I just mean to control the volume level of the DAW track(s) using the corresponding faders on the analog mixer. Sorry for the misnomer.

 

It's kind of an experiment to see if I could possibly perform this way live - being able to manipulate some individual levels before sending them to the house engineer. Maybe it's a dumb idea though.

 

 

No, I don't think it's a dumb idea at all--now that I understand what you're going for.  By everything you've described, this SHOULD work!  The software (Reaper) supports multiple outputs...The Focusrite interface has 4 outputs...the mixer has enough inputs...

 

So sounds like what you basically are doing is "submixing"...so that you maintain some control over your sounds and can adjust levels prior to going to FOH/soundman?  Again, no reason this shouldn't work with the stuff you already have.  Everything is just pointing to a software setting/routing option.  I don't know Reaper well enough to offer specific advice though.

 

Could you still hear track 3 when the song was playing, even though the knob didn't do anything?...and if so, was track 3 affected by knobs 1 or 2?  If the answers are yes, then that even further points to there just not being a 3rd output activated and routed correctly within the software.

 

One thing to keep in mind (not sure it's been mentioned)... typically, these interface also have their own software/app that allows you to route its inputs and outputs.  So even if you have Reaper setup such that track 3 is going to an output called "Focusrite Out 3" for instance...you might still need to go into the Focusrite software and make sure that "Focusrite Out 3" is actually routed to the 3rd physical output on your interface.  Think the Focusrite app is called MixControl or something like that (been a while since I had mine)

[J.F.N.]

Okay, so, software out through the interface and then to the mixer. Sounds either like a driver setup problem, or a bug somewhere if you can't access all four streams in Reaper.

[D. Gauss]

1 hour ago, KeyboardEric said:

 

 

I'm pretty sure I have Reaper configured to have the Output Range to 4. At least that's what it's showing in the Preferences under Audio - Device.

 

 

 

 

does it show them labeled as such i.e.  first =scarlette 1,  last=scarlette 4,   and the device driver in reaper is the asio driver for your interface?  

 

 

[KeyboardEric]

5 minutes ago, D. Gauss said:

 

 

does it show them labeled as such i.e.  first =scarlette 1,  last=scarlette 4,   and the device driver in reaper is the asio driver for your interface?  

 

 

 

[KeyboardEric]

1 hour ago, Sean M. H. said:

 

 

No, I don't think it's a dumb idea at all--now that I understand what you're going for.  By everything you've described, this SHOULD work!  The software (Reaper) supports multiple outputs...The Focusrite interface has 4 outputs...the mixer has enough inputs...

 

So sounds like what you basically are doing is "submixing"...so that you maintain some control over your sounds and can adjust levels prior to going to FOH/soundman?  Again, no reason this shouldn't work with the stuff you already have.  Everything is just pointing to a software setting/routing option.  I don't know Reaper well enough to offer specific advice though.

 

Could you still hear track 3 when the song was playing, even though the knob didn't do anything?...and if so, was track 3 affected by knobs 1 or 2?  If the answers are yes, then that even further points to there just not being a 3rd output activated and routed correctly within the software.

 

One thing to keep in mind (not sure it's been mentioned)... typically, these interface also have their own software/app that allows you to route its inputs and outputs.  So even if you have Reaper setup such that track 3 is going to an output called "Focusrite Out 3" for instance...you might still need to go into the Focusrite software and make sure that "Focusrite Out 3" is actually routed to the 3rd physical output on your interface.  Think the Focusrite app is called MixControl or something like that (been a while since I had mine)

Thanks for your feedback! I can hear track 3 as its being routed somehow to outputs 1+2 (I think). I cannot control the individual level of track 3 like I can 1 and 2 via the analog mixer. I think I have my Focusrite set up correctly since I'm seeing the signal coming through via output 3 there. I'm able to mix all the outputs separately via the Focusrite Control (inside of the software UI), just not track 3 by itself with the analog mixer. I think there is a Driver issue within Reaper or the Focusrite Control software needs to be tweaked. Maybe I can try searching for updates...

[D. Gauss]

Ah..you didn't mention the interface control software. Not familiar with your interface, but since all looks good on the reaper end, I'd bet dollars to donuts that's where the bottleneck is. 

[KeyboardEric]

6 hours ago, D. Gauss said:

Ah..you didn't mention the interface control software. Not familiar with your interface, but since all looks good on the reaper end, I'd bet dollars to donuts that's where the bottleneck is. 

That could very well be it. The Focusrite Control software appears simple but maybe I'm missing something... I suppose I'll keep researching it.  I'm not able to route the Track 3 audio to output 3 even though I'm fairly certain I have it set up to do so... it appears there is signal being sent to Output 3 in the FR Control software, but that track's audio is playing through both 1+2. I suppose it's possible the chat-man at FR was right.🤔

[J.F.N.]

I have only good experience from the Focusrite support, they helped me with some minor things with my SL61MkII and surprisingly sent me a Power supply, for free, even though it's an old product and I had bought it used.

 

Call them and ask for help with setting your interface up in Reaper and they will most probably walk you through the process, and eventual problems can be ironed out with them directly on the phone.

 

 

[D. Gauss]

Again, don't know your interface, but your Reaper stuff is correct. Looking at your pic, I'd be unclicking anything that says stereo in your interface control panel and seeing what options (if any it gives you), and also try to set it up so it is 4 in/4 out as I'm only seeing 2 in, a stereo out (get rid of that..make it 1 and a separate 2) and ch 3. 

[J.F.N.]

What previous poster said, switch the "stereo" on the ports (boxes to the left) to mono and you should instead see one box per mono channel, which hopefully will resolve your problem.

[Docbop]

I was thinking how I'd do this with Ableton so I figure Reaper can do the same.    In the DAW I create another Return track which in Ableton adds another send on every track.   Then in the settings set that return tracks output to one Scarlet's outputs.      That what you can send whatever track(s) you want to the new return track and that return track goes out one of the Scarlet output you could send to your mixer.     That would give you a lot of control of what goes to the new return and it's level and completely bypass the Master outputs.   The nice thing about DAWs is you can do all sorts of signal routing if you audio interface has extra outputs. 

[J.F.N.]

6 minutes ago, Docbop said:

I was thinking how I'd do this with Ableton so I figure Reaper can do the same.    In the DAW I create another Return track which in Ableton adds another send on every track.   Then in the settings set that return tracks output to one Scarlet's outputs.      That what you can send whatever track(s) you want to the new return track and that return track goes out one of the Scarlet output you could send to your mixer.     That would give you a lot of control of what goes to the new return and it's level and completely bypass the Master outputs.   The nice thing about DAWs is you can do all sorts of signal routing if you audio interface has extra outputs. 

 

Or just like in the good old analog days, 4 busses, routed to each of the outputs of the Scarlett, and BOOM!

 

 

[KeyboardEric]

I was able to get it to work this morning! Turns out I had some cables plugged into the wrong physical channels. Woops! 😳

 

Thanks to all here for chiming in with their seasoned advice. I've learned so much from this forum over the years.

 

No thanks to FR Tech Support 😆

 

🙏🙏🙏

[KeyboardEric]

3 hours ago, J.F.N. said:

What previous poster said, switch the "stereo" on the ports (boxes to the left) to mono and you should instead see one box per mono channel, which hopefully will resolve your problem.

Turns out this doesn't matter too much. That can be set up as either Stereo or Mono and it works either way. 👍

[KeyboardEric]

7 hours ago, J.F.N. said:

I have only good experience from the Focusrite support, they helped me with some minor things with my SL61MkII and surprisingly sent me a Power supply, for free, even though it's an old product and I had bought it used.

 

Call them and ask for help with setting your interface up in Reaper and they will most probably walk you through the process, and eventual problems can be ironed out with them directly on the phone.

 

 

I called them about a year ago with a different issue. and had a positive experience. This time I could not find a U.S. phone number on their web site, and there was only the chat/email option. Not as good of an experience this time around.

[D. Gauss]

you guys and your buses and returns tracks. 

Reaper just has tracks.  Any track can be anything... audio/midi/send/return/group/VCA, doesn't matter to the honey badger that is Reaper.