JohnDoe Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Years ago I had a Studiologic Numa1 organ. Loved the sound, the keyaction not so much, to stiff. I also had an M-Audio Keystation 61es, with nice keyaction. https://m-audio.com/products/view/keystation-61es I opened both and the springs looked similar, so I switched them, separating springs for black and white keys. Result? Numa1 had much better keyfeel and I sold the M-Audio with stiffer keys. Then I got me a KeyB Duo Mk2. Same story, great sound but stiff keys. I opened the KeyB, springs looked the same as in Numa so I got me an M-Audio and switched springs. Result? Much better keyfeel, stiff M-Audio sold. I have no Legend, but I guess it has the same Fatar keybed as Numa and KeyB, so a springswitch might work. 1 Quote "This is my rig, and if you don´t like it....well, I have others!" "Think positive...there's always something to complain about!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWW Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Get the Soul 261. Extremely light fast action Quote Hammond C3, Leslie 122, Steinway B, Wurlitzer 200A, Rhodes 73, D6 Clav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnDoe Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 5 minutes ago, WWW said: Get the Soul 261. Extremely light fast action Hmm...I know, I got one five months ago.👍 Quote "This is my rig, and if you don´t like it....well, I have others!" "Think positive...there's always something to complain about!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tweed Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 I was thinking about doing this with my Live. Not having another set of springs to swap, I considered trying to order some. But I don’t know exactly what to order, or where from. In the end it would have been considerable effort and who knows if I would be happy with the end result. Solved the problem by ordering a Soul261. I’m selling the Live to a friend who has not played much organ, concentrating on piano and synth. He had been over a few times to play and loves it, and jumped at the chance to buy it off me. We will both end up very happy. Quote Legend Soul 261, Leslie 251, Yamaha UX1, CP4, CK61, Hammond SK1, Ventilator, Privia PX3, Behringer 2600, Korg Triton LE, VB3M, B3X, various guitars and woodwinds, drum kits … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzjazz Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 I’ve owned all those organs you mentioned. They do loosen up are you play them. Mine got too easy to play in the end. Quote www.dazzjazz.com PhD in Jazz Organ Improvisation. BMus (Hons) Jazz Piano. my YouTube is Jazz Organ Bites 1961 A100.Leslie 45 & 122. MAG P-2 Organ. Kawai K300J. Yamaha CP4. Moog Matriarch. KIWI-8P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tweed Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Sorry to disagree with you dazz, but as you know I have had two Lives for about two years each, and neither of them loosened up in any way noticeable to me. Think about it - the keys in the middle of the keyboard get much more use than at the ends, but I have yet to hear of anyone noticing any differences from one end of the keyboard to the other. My playing is mostly standard jazz organ style where the lower manual gets a lot of use at the left hand end, but it still feels exactly the same as the left hand end of the upper manual. Quote Legend Soul 261, Leslie 251, Yamaha UX1, CP4, CK61, Hammond SK1, Ventilator, Privia PX3, Behringer 2600, Korg Triton LE, VB3M, B3X, various guitars and woodwinds, drum kits … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzjazz Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 3 hours ago, John Tweed said: Sorry to disagree with you dazz, but as you know I have had two Lives for about two years each, and neither of them loosened up in any way noticeable to me. Think about it - the keys in the middle of the keyboard get much more use than at the ends, but I have yet to hear of anyone noticing any differences from one end of the keyboard to the other. My playing is mostly standard jazz organ style where the lower manual gets a lot of use at the left hand end, but it still feels exactly the same as the left hand end of the upper manual. I did a more than a few hundred gigs on each board, KeyB Duo Mk3 then Legend Live. Both loosed up over time. Plus, as a dealer, I’ve played lots of brand new ones right out of the box. Like most keyboards when new, they need to be played in. Quote www.dazzjazz.com PhD in Jazz Organ Improvisation. BMus (Hons) Jazz Piano. my YouTube is Jazz Organ Bites 1961 A100.Leslie 45 & 122. MAG P-2 Organ. Kawai K300J. Yamaha CP4. Moog Matriarch. KIWI-8P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tweed Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Dazz I defer to your extensive experience with organs. In an effort to quantify things I checked out the four 61 note boards I have at my disposal. Without going into specifics, I can say that the Legend Live is the lightest, followed by my Triton LE (old but it has aftertouch) then the Hammond SK1 (12 years old). In last place was the Yamaha CK61 (with a pseudo hammer action). So the CK61 is not lighter than the VLL, as I claimed somewhere previously. In my defence I made that claim while not near either of the boards, and possibly was unconsciously comparing it to weighted boards. Some of the other results surprised me, for example I would have said the SK1 was lighter than the Live, but it is not so. Perhaps that’s because I have generally used it over the top of a CP4 and so it will certainly feel lighter than that. After 12 years and many gigs it must surely be well played in. (I have retired it from gigging as it sometimes doesn’t want to fire up, otherwise it rates as one of the best boards I have ever owned). With each board I briefly tried to determine how much variation there is between keys due to some enduring more use than others. Doing this properly would require a lot more time and equipment than I have at my disposal just now. I found that, yes, there is some evidence that some notes may well be lighter than others but they are only slightly so. It’s not anywhere within the range of another board. I haven’t detailed my methodology nor translated the measurements into weights. Briefly I am using small coins to lay weights on the keys. I plan to continue with my experiments and will make the methodology and all the results available at some point in the future. Hopefully some others of you will be encouraged to measure your instrument so we can make broad comparisons. Three boards I am interested to know about are the Mojo, the original two manual with the light keyboard (I used to have one of these), the new Vox Continental (I’ve never played one but I did run my hand over the keys once in a music shop while it wasn’t on and it felt incredibly light) and a Mag. The VLL is the lightest board I have here, but it’s not the lightest I have ever had so I am keenly waiting on my Soul61 (it’s on its way) and you can be sure I’ll be comparing the two - the Live will not be leaving for its new home until I have had a chance to compare them. Quote Legend Soul 261, Leslie 251, Yamaha UX1, CP4, CK61, Hammond SK1, Ventilator, Privia PX3, Behringer 2600, Korg Triton LE, VB3M, B3X, various guitars and woodwinds, drum kits … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Henry Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 On 3/4/2024 at 2:48 PM, JohnDoe said: Years ago I had a Studiologic Numa1 organ. Loved the sound, the keyaction not so much, to stiff. I also had an M-Audio Keystation 61es, with nice keyaction. https://m-audio.com/products/view/keystation-61es I opened both and the springs looked similar, so I switched them, separating springs for black and white keys. Result? Numa1 had much better keyfeel and I sold the M-Audio with stiffer keys. Then I got me a KeyB Duo Mk2. Same story, great sound but stiff keys. I opened the KeyB, springs looked the same as in Numa so I got me an M-Audio and switched springs. Result? Much better keyfeel, stiff M-Audio sold. I have no Legend, but I guess it has the same Fatar keybed as Numa and KeyB, so a springswitch might work. I replaced the springs on my Nord Stage 3 compact (Fatar keybed) with lighter ones (PC3KC) from a Kurweil. I got the replacements from Syntaur.com in Texas. It is where I want the action now (Lighter) since I use it mostly to play organ on the Nord into a Leslie 145. As I've said before it's a fairly easy swap and you can always go back to the originals if you so desire. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Towne Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 I’m the king of switching springs. Just ask my keyboard tech. He’s put a kid through college thanks to my obsessive nature. 2 Quote Endorsing Artist/Ambassador for MAG Organs and Motion Sound Amplifiers, Organ player for SRT - www.srtgroove.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Harrison Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 On 3/8/2024 at 9:59 AM, John Tweed said: Three boards I am interested to know about are the Mojo, the original two manual with the light keyboard ..., the new Vox Continental ... and a Mag. MAG offer standard or light springs as an option. I opted for light springs on my MAG C2, and it feels fine. (Back in the day I owned a new Hammond B3, and since then I have owned a Hammond XK3c and XK1c, and a Legend Solo. They all felt fine to me, and I soon got used to them all.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxcvbnm098 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 I’ve griped in the past about how I wish manufacturers would list the tension on a given keyboard, and make available lighter or stiffer springs to swap in should the end user desire a change. And charge for it! For some reason it’s a state secret on the manufacturer’s side; they hold that information stupidly close to the vest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 14 hours ago, Mitch Towne said: I’m the king of switching springs. Just ask my keyboard tech. He’s put a kid through college thanks to my obsessive nature. Where do you get all those springs? Everyone mentions Syntaur (which is presumably why they're always out of stock...) Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Towne Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 On 3/9/2024 at 11:34 AM, stoken6 said: Where do you get all those springs? Everyone mentions Syntaur (which is presumably why they're always out of stock...) Cheers, Mike. It often involves canabalizing other keyboards. 1 Quote Endorsing Artist/Ambassador for MAG Organs and Motion Sound Amplifiers, Organ player for SRT - www.srtgroove.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzjazz Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 I kinda regret getting the lighter springs for my MAG. Sure, I didn’t have to play it in as much when I first got it, but now I feel that it’s too light compared to my A100 and the C3 I play at teaching. Might have to switch back… Quote www.dazzjazz.com PhD in Jazz Organ Improvisation. BMus (Hons) Jazz Piano. my YouTube is Jazz Organ Bites 1961 A100.Leslie 45 & 122. MAG P-2 Organ. Kawai K300J. Yamaha CP4. Moog Matriarch. KIWI-8P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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