Hammond XK-5 revisions?

[K3ybrdr]

I’m considering buying a Hammond XK-5 but as it has been out for quite a while, I would like to know if there are specific hardware revisions you want/don’t want? Is it still a good purchase today or are there rumors of it being discontinued any time soon?

[cassdad]

7 hours ago, K3ybrdr said:

I’m considering buying a Hammond XK-5 but as it has been out for quite a while, I would like to know if there are specific hardware revisions you want/don’t want? Is it still a good purchase today or are there rumors of it being discontinued any time soon?

 

I also have the same question, glad you posted it, hoping for some good info responses.

 

The XK-5 is definately long in the teeth, but is it still their “flagship”?  Or are the more recent models better, and if so, in what ways?  ie. the SKX Pro or XK-4?  They now have so many models, I have no idea which is the “best”.  Which has the best “Hammond” sound?  Best touch?  Best leslie sim?  Most realistic (re:  9 different triggers as each key is pressed)?  Is the XK-5 still the best?

[analogman1]

It is quite confusing. 
All the different terms of how they achieve “the sound”. 
I wish someone had a good comparison chart!

[Jim Alfredson]

The XK5 is a fantastic organ. It is still the flagship. The feel of the multi-contacts cannot be understated. It's the only digital organ I've played where I don't need to adjust my playing to it. It plays responds like a vintage Hammond. I love it. 

The SK Pro series is nice and lightweight and super portable. The XK4 is a slimmed down SK Pro without non-organ sounds if you just need a good organ. Both are based on the MTW engine that's in the XK5. But the XK5 is still the king daddy. It's like playing a Minimoog vs a Little Phatty.



 

[The Real MC]

I own XK-3 and XK3c with XLK3 lower manual.

The XK-5 is a really good organ with improvements and omissions.  I tried one at NAMM 2023.

 

I like the additions they made with new tonewheels like "Pipe", and the improvements to the combo organ tone wheels.  Thankfully H-S has retained the custom tonewheels, which sold me on the XK organs.  I designed a custom tonewheel set to sound like my favorite vintage Hammond.  Only the XK3/3c/5 clonewheels have that feature.  Lot of other welcome additions over the previous models.  The XK-5 Leslie simulation is the best H-S has developed.

I miss some tube control that the earlier XK3/XK3c models had.  Controls like bias, crossover points, assign AX7 or AU7 tube to either crossover band.  These controls, without much overdrive, could alter the tone of the organ over the keyboard range that EQ could not.  Especially with extra voices like Clavinet, which can gain some bite using the tube overdrive.  That's hard to give up.  The H-S Clavinet is the most authentic I have heard, and the waterfall keybed lends that staccato playing that is so essential to Clavinet playing.

 

XK-5 digital overdrive don't really sound like much use. The pedal fuzzbox is ratty, settings between zero and full change the volume of the fuzz but not the fuzz amount.

 

Speaking of which, I don't see anything in the XK-5 manual referring to extra voices (Page G) - were they omitted?

One major beef of the XK3/3c is using MIDI to control external MIDI boxes - MIDI Active Sense can't be turned off.  I have some MIDI gear that don't respond correctly when they receive Active Sensing - if I filter Active Sensing with a MIDI processor then they work correctly.  I don't see an option in the XK-5 manual to disable Active Sensing.  I use my XK organs for double duty on stage, when there are songs I don't play any organ then I use the XK to control MIDI boxes remotely.  I have to carry an extra box to filter out Active Sensing, and that's inconvenient.

 

But hey, they are great clonewheel organs.  I think both the XK-5 and XK-3c are the apex of Hammond organ authenticity.

[JoJoB3]

10 hours ago, The Real MC said:

I own XK-3 and XK3c with XLK3 lower manual.

The XK-5 is a really good organ with improvements and omissions.  I tried one at NAMM 2023.

 

I like the additions they made with new tonewheels like "Pipe", and the improvements to the combo organ tone wheels.  Thankfully H-S has retained the custom tonewheels, which sold me on the XK organs.  I designed a custom tonewheel set to sound like my favorite vintage Hammond.  Only the XK3/3c/5 clonewheels have that feature.  Lot of other welcome additions over the previous models.  The XK-5 Leslie simulation is the best H-S has developed.

I miss some tube control that the earlier XK3/XK3c models had.  Controls like bias, crossover points, assign AX7 or AU7 tube to either crossover band.  These controls, without much overdrive, could alter the tone of the organ over the keyboard range that EQ could not.  Especially with extra voices like Clavinet, which can gain some bite using the tube overdrive.  That's hard to give up.  The H-S Clavinet is the most authentic I have heard, and the waterfall keybed lends that staccato playing that is so essential to Clavinet playing.

 

XK-5 digital overdrive don't really sound like much use. The pedal fuzzbox is ratty, settings between zero and full change the volume of the fuzz but not the fuzz amount.

 

Speaking of which, I don't see anything in the XK-5 manual referring to extra voices (Page G) - were they omitted?

One major beef of the XK3/3c is using MIDI to control external MIDI boxes - MIDI Active Sense can't be turned off.  I have some MIDI gear that don't respond correctly when they receive Active Sensing - if I filter Active Sensing with a MIDI processor then they work correctly.  I don't see an option in the XK-5 manual to disable Active Sensing.  I use my XK organs for double duty on stage, when there are songs I don't play any organ then I use the XK to control MIDI boxes remotely.  I have to carry an extra box to filter out Active Sensing, and that's inconvenient.

 

But hey, they are great clonewheel organs.  I think both the XK-5 and XK-3c are the apex of Hammond organ authenticity.

"I miss some tube control that the earlier XK3/XK3c models had.  Controls like bias, crossover points, assign AX7 or AU7 tube to either crossover band.  These controls, without much overdrive, could alter the tone of the organ over the keyboard range that EQ could not." 

What? Why did they dissolve that? (cuz yer right, especially if one swaps in other NOS tubes).

XK system pros:

- full setup looks halfway decent on a stage compared to others

- modular system a big plus
- keybed feel I enjoy. Not exactly 3-series but easy to settle in to.
- above average MIDI control and support (3c at least, not sure about the 5.  3c has the mod wheels.
- sounds decent via sim, and easily adapts to sounding far better via vintage leslie.  I've found the internal leslie to sound quite good for a sim.

Cons:
- they need to get away from the small button switching and go rockers (orig UI).  There's a reason the originals used the larger rocker switching and it has everything to do with immediacy and playability.
- Could have been made lighter (while retaining size and look)
- it's their keyclick that seems to be their Achilles heel.  Some say the percussion (but it's really the KC).
 

[Delaware Dave]

It's a great organ, wish i had one.  Biggest con for me is the price ...

[JoJoB3]

1 hour ago, Delaware Dave said:

It's a great organ, wish i had one.  Biggest con for me is the price ...

Totally, but pretty much all of the latest are over-priced.  Kinda nuts because these things DO have a finite life while the original can go on as long as one wants it to pretty much.

[Adan]

If the feel of multi-contacts is important, also consider the Viscount Soul. I haven't played an XK5 so can't compare it to the Soul, but I can compare the Soul to a real Hammond: it's a pretty good approximation of the multi-contact feel.

 

 

[Jim Alfredson]

5 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

What? Why did they dissolve that? (cuz yer right, especially if one swaps in other NOS tubes).

Because the tubes in the XK5 are not used in the same way as the tubes in the XK3/C. The tubes in the XK3/C were on the output stage, after all the digital processing. The tubes in the XK5 are in the preamp stage, helping to model the response of the AO-28 preamp in a vintage Hammond. This is confusing because there's an 'overdrive' button on the XK5 but that's DSP, not the tubes. 

 

5 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

- it's their keyclick that seems to be their Achilles heel.  Some say the percussion (but it's really the KC).
 

 

Not on the XK5. Because of the aforementioned tube preamp circuit, combined with modeling the matching transformer and multi-contacts, the percussion and the keyclick are spot-on, imo. The percussion has that nice, compressed, woody thunk that it should have and the key-click is random in timbre.

[TJ Cornish]

Disclaimer- I’ve played a vintage mechanical B3 like twice in my life, so I can’t comment on authenticity at that level; my comments are based on what my ears hear in others’ recordings vs what I can get out of the XK5 and prior experience with other clonewheels. I’m a church guy and play worship/rock organ. Not a jazz guy.

 

What I like about the XK5: It feels great. The extra key contacts make a huge difference compared to my former clone wheels. I love the expression pedal with kick switch for Leslie speed. I have really appreciated the custom tone wheel option - I’m going for “well-behaved” and “sits in the mix” rather than replicating every quirk of the original, and on basically all of the clonewheels I have used including the XK-5 by default, the 5 1/3 drawbar just screams on about the top 8 keys. Being able to tweak that one drawbar down on just those few keys has made a big difference. Love multiple sets of drawbars and the physical controls. I think it sounds good; everyone else tells me it sounds great. With all of our guitar folks having gone to digital rigs, I am now the only person on the team with tubes in my rig.

 

Less favorite things about the XK5: The menu structure is, um, interesting. I have struggled with saving presets - I want to have preset keys save stuff other than drawbar settings. It is possible and I think I sort of figured it out once, but it was so painful I never tried again. I am a little bit worried about the DIN connector that the pedal uses - I’ve had my XK5 since 2018 and play weekly and it has been OK in that time, but it isn’t as robust a connector as a 1/4” jack. The good news is it should be replaceable. The orange LED that is the “virtual filament” is a little bit lame. I get why they do it and they are far from the only device that does, but it’s an affectation, and it annoys me.

 

A general comment - there is a large fraction of users here that want everything lighter. I get it, but that comes at a cost. The XK5 is solid in a good way, and manufacturers don’t put lead in keyboards just to piss us off. If you want wood, want all the physical controls, want robustness, want an internal power supply, etc., it is what it is. There are lesser instruments that are lighter to choose from. 

[Delaware Dave]

2 hours ago, TJ Cornish said:

the 5 1/3 drawbar just screams on about the top 8 keys. Being able to tweak that one drawbar down on just those few keys has made a big difference

Found the same thing with VB3ii.  Via drawbar "trimming" I reduced the level of the 5 1/3 drawbar which cut some of the shrillness in the top octave.  Also reducing the 2khz via my mixer has just about eliminated the shrillness.

[JoJoB3]

On 2/19/2024 at 11:07 AM, Jim Alfredson said:

Because the tubes in the XK5 are not used in the same way as the tubes in the XK3/C. The tubes in the XK3/C were on the output stage, after all the digital processing. The tubes in the XK5 are in the preamp stage, helping to model the response of the AO-28 preamp in a vintage Hammond. This is confusing because there's an 'overdrive' button on the XK5 but that's DSP, not the tubes. 

 

 

Not on the XK5. Because of the aforementioned tube preamp circuit, combined with modeling the matching transformer and multi-contacts, the percussion and the keyclick are spot-on, imo. The percussion has that nice, compressed, woody thunk that it should have and the key-click is random in timbre.

Ah, danke for the info.

Well it's possible I'm asking too much in comparing to the KC from my early model vintage 3series.  Also needed more time and better/quieter setting when I tried an XK5 (but recall the KC as bothersome as the 3c KC and edits within only doing so much).
I'll make the switch to the 5 one day soon but it's been mainly shows where the vintage is doable and preferred.