Why do acoustic snares always sound like sh*t on Yamaha arranger keyboards?

[AROIOS]

For the last 20 years, the acoustic snares on Yamaha's pro-PSR and Tyros lineups have always sounded like hitting a HomeDepot utility bucket with a spoon.

Unfortunately, that tradition carried on to the Genos 2. Jump to 3:34 of the first video below and you'll hear a snare that sounds like your average early 90's garage band on a 4-track recorder.
 

This is in such drastic contrast with the excellent Sweet! and SA1/2 sounds on these boards. It has always felt to me that acoustic snares were never budgeted for and ended up being sampled in someone's bathroom in 10 minutes.
 

What the heck? Snare is arguably the single most important sound in Pop and Rock arrangements. And Yamaha, the maker of great real drums and e-drums, can't get it right on their multi-thousand dollar flagships for over 20 years?
 

[ProfD]

I have no idea of how much editing capability exists on those KBs but if it does, sound shaping and/or tuning those snares could tighten up the sound.

 

Another thought is those arranger KBs should have several drumkits. Again, if editing is possible maybe snares can be swapped out into a customized kit.

 

Otherwise, Yamaha deserves an azz whipping if that's the only snare in those KBs.🤣😎

[AROIOS]

Ok, just heard a redeeming snare at 10:00 in Martin Harris' demo, there's hope:
 

 

[AROIOS]

24 minutes ago, ProfD said:

I have no idea of how much editing capability exists on those KBs but if it does, sound shaping and/or tuning those snares could tighten up the sound.

 

Another thought is those arranger KBs should have several drumkits. Again, if editing is possible maybe snares can be swapped out into a customized kit.

 

Otherwise, Yamaha deserves an azz whipping if that's the only snare in those KBs.🤣😎

Snares are one of those sounds where character of the original sample(s) matters a lot ( on a second thought, what kind of acoustic sounds aren't? 😆). There's only so much tuning, EQing and compressing we can do, before it starts to sound like ass.

I used to swap the snare in recordings from my PSR-S700 well over a decade ago. It's a breeze with DAWs,  but would be a PITA in live situations, if even possible.

[GovernorSilver]

The snare sound used in that Top Gun cover does not sound like an acoustic snare to me.  It sounds like a sample of a drum machine (synthesized) snare.   I'm not sure which drum machine - maybe a Roland TR-909?  

 

Took a quick look at the Data List for the Yamaha PSR-SX600, which I own.  It definitely has multiple drum kits to choose from, ostensibly for various genres such as rock, jazz, etc.   I think Yamaha wants me to use this software for creating custom drum kits with samples of my choosing: https://my.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/psr-sx600/yem.html.   I don't think I'd use it, however, in the near future.   I'm content to export MIDI from my arranger to a DAW, then swap out sounds as desired.

 

For aficionados of acoustic snares, there are software sample libraries that would likely satisfy you more than the onboard drums on most arrangers.   Yamaha and Korg tend to reserve their very best sample libraries for their most expensive arrangers.   

 

fwiw, I have no plans to use my arranger in a live situation.

 

[AROIOS]

8 minutes ago, GovernorSilver said:

The snare sound used in that Top Gun cover does not sound like an acoustic snare to me.  It sounds like a sample of a drum machine (synthesized) snare.   I'm not sure which drum machine - maybe a Roland TR-909?  

 

Took a quick look at the Data List for the Yamaha PSR-SX600, which I own.  It definitely has multiple drum kits to choose from, ostensibly for various genres such as rock, jazz, etc.   I think Yamaha wants me to use this software for creating custom drum kits with samples of my choosing: https://my.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/psr-sx600/yem.html.   I don't think I'd use it, however, in the near future.   I'm content to export MIDI from my arranger to a DAW, then swap out sounds as desired.

 

For aficionados of acoustic snares, there are software sample libraries that would likely satisfy you more than the onboard drums on most arrangers.   Yamaha and Korg tend to reserve their very best sample libraries for their most expensive arrangers.   

 

fwiw, I have no plans to use my arranger in a live situation.

I think you're hearing the TR-808 snare in the verse of that tune. The "sh*t" snare I mentioned strikes at 3:35 and is definitely an acoustic type.

And yes, there are usually well over a dozen different drum kits in these arranger boards. Ironically. I never had much complain about those kits other than "Standard Kit1", which is arguably the most used kit on an arranger board. Even from a marketing perspective, any manufacturer with half of a brain would make it, and especially its snare, sound as good as they can, if only for a good first impression. But nope, not the case with the pro-PSRs and Tyroses.

It never bothered me back in the days coz the S700 costs only $1000. My ears got spoiled by all these excellent $50 drum libraries over the years, to the point where I hear a 90's-Rompler-quality snare on a $4000 board, I can't help but go WTH. 😆

First World Problems, I know, I know.

[GovernorSilver]

I was also interested in the Genos 2 for about five minutes.   At the end of the day, I concluded it's not a must-buy for me, snare sounds aside.   

 

 

[Mighty Motif Max]

Interesting - I’ve owned numerous current and past keyboards from Roland, Yamaha, Korg, Kurzweil, etc, and to me, overall Yamaha has by far the most realistic sounding drums. They still pale in comparison to drum software of course (I use Addictive Drums 2), but they’re not very far beneath, say, Roland’s current electric drum lineup (I own a TD17-KVX). I did like Korg’s crash cymbals on the Jazz kit introduced with the Kronos, but that’s about it.

[pjd]

The style developer chooses the drum kit and digital effects to be put on the drums and other instruments. Sometimes the style developer tweaks individual drum sounds like the snare or kick. The Genos (and PSR) ethos is to "sound like the record" out of the box.

 

The "ActionAnthem" style uses the AnalogT8Kit and the new Ambient drums RockKit. The channels are run through the Uni Comp compressor effect and the Ambi kit probably has some level of ambience dialed in.

 

The "OrchRockBallad1" style uses the new OrchTimpani voice and the new Ambient drum DirtyKit. The DirtyKit is going through the newly added multi-band compressor effect.

 

There's lots of sound shaping tools available. I'll grant ya, the Ambi RockKit is largely the old Revo kit with new ambient samples added.

 

Hope this info helps -- pj

 

[AROIOS]

23 hours ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

Interesting - I’ve owned numerous current and past keyboards from Roland, Yamaha, Korg, Kurzweil, etc, and to me, overall Yamaha has by far the most realistic sounding drums. They still pale in comparison to drum software of course (I use Addictive Drums 2), but they’re not very far beneath, say, Roland’s current electric drum lineup (I own a TD17-KVX). I did like Korg’s crash cymbals on the Jazz kit introduced with the Kronos, but that’s about it.

Yup, I didn't have much complain about the main acoustic snare on my MOTIFs.

And yes, I have yet to hear a "record-ready" drum kit on any keyboard I've touched. Even some of the 90's AKAI/Roland sample libraries sound better with a bit of tweaking in DAW.

[AROIOS]

11 hours ago, pjd said:

...The "ActionAnthem" style uses the AnalogT8Kit and the new Ambient drums RockKit. The channels are run through the Uni Comp compressor effect and the Ambi kit probably has some level of ambience dialed in.

 

The "OrchRockBallad1" style uses the new OrchTimpani voice and the new Ambient drum DirtyKit. The DirtyKit is going through the newly added multi-band compressor effect.

 

There's lots of sound shaping tools available. I'll grant ya, the Ambi RockKit is largely the old Revo kit with new ambient samples added.

 

Hope this info helps -- pj

 

Thanks for the info, pjd. You are the man when it comes to anything related to arranger boards.

[Konnector]

I think the main issue with that snare in the video is not so much the sound, but the fact that it's waaay too loud in the mix compared to the rest of the drums. Sticks out like a sore thumb. Not a good balance.

[AROIOS]

22 hours ago, Konnector said:

I think the main issue with that snare in the video is not so much the sound, but the fact that it's waaay too loud in the mix compared to the rest of the drums. Sticks out like a sore thumb. Not a good balance.

Yup, the volume, sample selection and mixing technique are all off. The original featured a typical 80's gated-verb big snare (1:25 below).

Speaking of 80's big snare (Robert "Mutt" Lange style), it's a signature sound in 80's Pop and Rock styles. Yet I've never seen (heard) any arranger boards do it right.