DRUGS!

[whitefang]

Well, this weekend I got into one of those old arguements again. But first, let's get a few things clear...

 

Drug abuse of one form or another has been sadled on mankind for centuries. As recently as the 19th century, opium and opiate by-products such as laudaman plauged many. Then it was heroin and cocaine for the entire 20th century. Plus other drugs that need no introduction. But as much as the perception of drug addiction has changed, one area hasn't. More on that later.

 

I have always been straightforward about my past drug addiction. I have done so with no regrets, and scant denial. That denial came not in the form of thinking my doping was harmless; one would need be a total fool to think so. But rather, my denial was in the form of thinking the amounts of dope I took were too few to cause any harm. And of course, I was wrong. But still, I enjoyed it all. I had no misconceptions about why I did dope. I did it because I liked the sensation. More on that later as well.

 

But the perceptions most of society had about drug addicts was never tenable. Most felt that dope addicts were primarily "niggers and white trash!" But the fear was that evil "pushers" were always on the prowl, looking for ways to get kids hooked. Many of my friends often recalled with humor of their parents warning them, at a very young age, not to accept any chewing gum from a stranger. Their reason being that the stranger could be this evil pusher, and the gum could be "dusted" with heroin. Then what? An eight year old kid gets hooked? Considering at the time all the anti-drug naysayers were grinding out stories about dope fiends having $300 a day habits, one would wonder where an eight year old blue collar kid would come up with that kind of money. But the "niggers and white trash" rule prevailed and superceeded anything else. By the time the late '60's rolled around, hippies were added to the mix. The difference being that many "hippies" were in fact the sons and daughters of affluent parentage who became disenfranchised from their "set". And of course, once a hippie, you were living no better than white trash anyway, so the perception wavered little.

 

But in the early '70's, around this neck of the woods, a newspaper article addressed the fact that in Lincoln High School of Bloomfield Hills(I beleive Robin Williams attended that school for a semester or so)there was a growing epidemic of heroin use among the students. For you out-of-staters, Bloomfield Hills is pretty affluent. Buying a house there today would run you roughly $400,000. And those are the cheap seats! So now, people had to deal with the facts that drug abuse wasn't limited to the socially and economically disenfranchised. It had long before crossed income brackets. And that the reasons people did drugs are as varied and as numerous as the drugs they take.

 

But in more recent times, American snobbery had to deal with the fact that drug abuse wasn't isolated to those with a pattern of self destruction. Many celebrities, Rush Limbaugh the most recent, have become addicted to drugs given them for very valid reasons. And the long held disbelief that drugs were taken by many merely for recreation is just now beginning to sink in for many. But, dopers know addictive drugs come in many forms. Did I say I quit doing drugs? Well, that's not entirely true. I am currently hooked on nicotine and caffiene. THIS is the area of drug addiction that has always escaped the social perception. And the one that causes that old arguement I first mentioned?

 

Alcohol.

 

Ask any caseworker or medical assistant in most rehab clinics, and they'll agree. Booze is a drug. And alcoholism is drug addiction. But the legality of liquor keeps it off the radar of public drug addiction perception. People will look at the heroin or cocaine addict, and mistakenly think they're mental weaklings, unable to deal with life, and get doped up to "escape reality". However, they've come to accept that the alcoholic suffers from a "disease". And therefore are more sympathetic to their plight. But when you consider the cost of most street drugs, you'll realize you can more economically escape reality with a shot and a beer.

 

It also doesn't seem to sink in that our own government is involved with the business of drug dealing. I'm not talking about the pharmecutical kickbacks. I'm talking about the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. They don't exist to try and keep American citizens from becoming hooked on nicotine and booze. They exist to make sure the government gets their cut of the profit. There's also the hipocrisy of it all. I remember reading an article long ago about several organizations griping about the Cheech and Chong films and their agenda of "glorifying" drug use. But lets look at the facts. Did you ever see a beer commercial feature a pot-bellied slob in a cowboy hat on his hands and knees, vomiting on the barroom floor? Hell no! According to most beer commercials, the beautiful people from the Bally's ads all hang out in "clubs" with impeccible ambience drinking whatever brand that's being advertised. The only "losers" in these ads might be some geek in the corner drinking some other brand. And as geeks go, they're not really that bad looking. Certainly, they're NOT pot-bellied slobs in cowboy hats, vomiting on the floor.

 

Well, sorry. But in spite of what my brother-in-law tries to claim, beer seems to be the drug of choice these days. Yesterday, I went to a nephew's house for a big fish fry he was having(it was walleye, and it was DEE-licious!). Not only did he have five huge coolers full of beer, but several of his guests brought their own 24 can cubes with them. Now, I mentioned my brother-in-law. He wasn't there, but once a long time ago, he tried to convince me he wasn't an alcoholic. His reasoning? First off, he still had his job and his house. "If I was an alcoholic, I'd have lost them years ago." Then when that didn't work, he reasoned that he was a beer drinker, and beer wasn't really like drinking alcohol. To be sure, certainly not as bad as doing drugs. And THAT'S the old arguement I got into last night.

 

A man that was sitting at the same table told his nine year old son to go get him another beer. He then asked if I wanted one. I said no thanks, I don't drink. Instead of leaving it at that, he asked me why not. So I said, "I quit doing drugs, except nicotine and coffee." He looked at me puzzled, and then asked, "What's drinking beer have to do with drugs?" So I told him a short reply of the missive above. He replied, "Hey, just because I drink a few beers, that doesn't mean the same as if I was hooked on dope!" And I allowed that. I said I knew many guys back in my doping days that could get high on some weekend, and leave it alone for months. The addiction comes in, I explained, when one can't go through some occaision without it. I explained further that one of the reasons(among many)I quit doing dope was that these types of occaisions were planned around it. I had to make sure that I had enough pot to take with me, or else timed when I took my hit of mescaline in order to "properly" enjoy the evening. Then I told him about my friend Dave's parties. When we were in Jr. High, and through most of High School, his parents would let him and his brother Doug have paties at their house. The only drug present was the nicotine in the cigarettes they didn't mind us smoking. There was no sneaking out for a nip or a toke. You could drink only half a beer, follow it with two packs of peppermint gum and smother yourself in cow manure, and Mr. Mackey(Dave's Dad)could smell it on you across the room. That meant you were outa there! And we had the time of our lives at those parties! WITHOUT being drunk. WITHOUT being stoned. I started thinking about just what was it about those parties, or about me, that made it possible. Having that much fun without drinking and doping meant that obviously, the booze and dope weren't neccessary.

 

The man persisted. "That's all well and good," he said, "But that's not my case. I don't NEED this beer(his fourth in a half-hours time)to have a good time." So I reached over, grabbed his can of "Blue" and moved it across the table. "Fine", I told him, "Then you're having Pepsi the rest of the night." He gave me an odd look, and I gave him his beer back. I then told him that I really didn't care, just don't try telling me something's not what it is. But I did ask him to consider this...next time there's a party, clambake, barbeque or whatever, try drinking Pepsi all night, instead of the beer. Just for the one occaision. If you feel you didn't have as much fun without the brew, I've proved my point.

 

Don't get me wrong. This is not intended to be a lecture or the rantings of a crusader. You like getting drunk or high? Fine by me. But just please be honest about what it is. Don't lie to ME about it. But more importantly...

 

Don't lie to YOURSELF.

 

Whitefang

[Tedster]

I hear you, Fangman. Alcohol IS a drug. Anything that chemically alters your perception of reality, in my book, can be considered as such. Whether it's legal or not doesn't matter. Alcohol is legal, but it's regulated. I would suspect that your "friend" could be an alcoholic...and in the midst of denial about the effect it has on him or his need for it. But, that's a matter for him to come face to face with, and, sadly, only he can do it.

[John Sayers]

Yeah - but an alocholic is a medical problem - it's even hereditary. My Grandfather was an alcoholic - went crazy on the stuff, couldn't go without it ever!! He had to move to NZ from Scotland because of it. Fortunately - I'm not.

 

I don't think your friend is an alcoholic - he would know by now - he's just a typical heavy drinker - we have lots of them here too.

 

For some strange resaon a heavy drinker is acceptable in society whereas someone who smokes a few joints is a criminal and a drug addict.

 

You are right - we should call the heavy drinker a drug addict.

 

cheers

john

[blackfish]

the drug war is sponsored by big business, cigs and alcohol, insurance and oil. Weed and other types of dope feed your imagination, your rebel in hiding. you can kill them cells with some johnny walker, or feed em with some LSD. Either way your crazy, only one way gets you locked up.

[RG203]

Three nights ago, years of drug abuse (alcohol) finally caught up with one of our friends. After another argument with his wife (He always became angry and belligerent while drinking) he walked to the bedroom and came back into the kitchen with a gun. In a moment of rage and drunkeness, he shot himself in front of his wife.

 

Life-flight was called in, but he died on the way to the hospital. His eight year old son, who worshiped his father, was sleeping upstairs through the whole ordeal.

 

I don't think our friend thought of his drinking as a drug abuse problem, but it was. If he would have confronted it as such, he would probably be alive today. And there wouldn't be a broken-hearted little boy who is devastated from the loss of his father.

[skipclone 1]

Scientific American had a great article a while back that cited many of the same historical points as Whitefang. I can tell you this, it`s not just history. The drug trade (notice how it has morphed into `Illegal` drugs in the media) still fuels many of the proxy conflicts that geopolitical goon squads like PNAC insist are in the national interest. It has laid waste to much of South America, both culturally and environmentally. Meanwhile I read that Switzerland, conservative, law-abiding Switzerland, has a population that largely ignores the illegality of pot and has shops similar to Amsterdam, where bud is sold as bath salts! the article said, in part, that it`s not unusual to see a businessman in a three-piece suit, taking a break with a spliff. It kind of goes back to the `Bowling for Culumbine` question-what the hell is America`s problem? I can tell you this, Whitefang-you can burn yourself out real quick arguing with people like the one you described. A friend of mine used to drive a taxi, he was shocked at the number of people who believe that the satellites being sent up are what`s responsible for the weird weather-I am serious, this is not just a few people. I`m not saying they are hopeless morons.

The evidence is.

[coyote]

Pepsi? Man, that stuff will feed your addiction to processed sugars. (And no, I'm not joking. Rising rates of diabetes and other diseases related to refined sugars are all on the rise.)

 

Yep, drug addiction is drug addiction regardless of the drug. But drugs are the least part of that problem. Those who choose not to do 'em, cool. That works for you, so keep it going!

 

Drugs, while often fostering physical dependency, have little to do with addiction. They are a SYMPTOM of addiction. Addiction is about our irrational compulsions. When you learn to think in those terms, addictions CAN be conquered.

 

But then there's the other half of the equation: society. For background, my only drug use nowadays is social drinking. And that basically stops when fresh-pressed apple cider becomes available (about three weeks or so from now ) Aside from that, no other drugs. But my wife will come running with pills in hand if I happen to sneeze more than twice. I see commercials where a "purple pill" makes you float among clouds and a guy called Smiling Bob fixes all his manly problems with a pill. I went to a doctor last year for a checkup and she said "You don't seem to have any problems. What prescription can I write for you?"

 

We are an addicted society. Our society labels the pleasurable addictions criminal in order to keep us under control even as it tries its best to get us addicted to everything else: pills, cigs, junk food, alcohol, designer labels...

[skipclone 1]

cola is gross, man. I would never set myself up by suggesting that as an alternative to alcohol or anything else.

[Magpel]

Once you've accepted the premise that virtually anything we take into our bodies can alter consciousness and chemistry in subtle or not so subtle ways, defining "drug" becomes almost exclusively a social (as opposed to scientific) process. Which is not to say that all drugs are equal.

 

In the future, we may even come to understand that "content" alters body chemistry--that the eyes are an orifice every bit as open to drug traffic as the mouth or nose.

 

Still, as a former nicotine addict and an active but moderate recreational drinker, I feel in my gut that the term addiciton is thrown around haphazardly, but I lack the scientific knowledge to draw an accurate distinction between subtances that are truly addictive (in some profound physiological way) and those that are "merely" habit- or dependency-forming. I just feel that the disinction exists and is important.

[Duhduh]

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

A friend of mine used to drive a taxi, he was shocked at the number of people who believe that the satellites being sent up are what`s responsible for the weird weather-I am serious, this is not just a few people.

Please explain this...

[Tedly Nightshade]

Pepsi is horrible stuff- can't recommend that. Unless you are addicted or otherwise can't tolerate (handle) alcohol, I would say a Guinness is a hell of a lot more wholesome.

 

"Drugs" is such a screwy word- somehow it doesn't include the psychotropics so many are prescribed these days? I've been to NA meetings (as a visitor, open meeting) where all kind of people are describing their current regimens of prescribed mindfuck drugs but somehow that "doesn't count"- you're still clean, but a toke or a nip of brandy and you're a danger to yourself and to others. That don't compute!

 

Sad to hear about the murder suicide scenario above, but that kind of thing is a known "side effect" of many of the big brand antidepressants prescribed so rampantly above- I wonder were such legal drugs involved?

 

I didn't drink until about age 30 (a few bouts of JD in high school cured me of the urge until recently), now I drink every day basically and have even taken to hard liquor- fine old Scotch whiskeys, yum! I was reflecting the other day on my resolution to keep on enjoying drinking for the rest of my life- which rules out getting addicted (my brother is an alcohol addict, probably one reason why I abstained so long). What a bummer it will be if that nip of fine whiskey becomes a toxic trigger that can derail my whole life and make me sick as a dog... I don't plan on getting to that point, but who does? I do know that I won't drink anything less than the most wholesome and I won't drink to excess. At least that's what I say now- I have a feeling that severe chronic pain could change that, so here's hoping I can avoid severe chronic pain.

 

Anyhow it's not a tidy issue, and I am distressed to see people swilling rotgut. Fortunately some domestic US beers are starting to be of sustainable quality...

[wraub]

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

...A friend of mine used to drive a taxi, he was shocked at the number of people who believe that the satellites being sent up are what`s responsible for the weird weather-I am serious, this is not just a few people. I`m not saying they are hopeless morons.

The evidence is.

I used to manage a head shop in another city, many years ago, and one night we were held up at gunpoint. Not too fun. But afterwards, when the cops came, I got into an odd conversation with one of them about "science stuff", as he called it.

 

Here's the scene: me, a long haired stoner looking type, conducting a tour of the entire (very big) store for a uniformed cop, showing the guy "waterpipes" and such as he claimed to have never seen before, talking of the physics involved in some of the designs. From there we turn to current flow and wind vectors, and then this uniformed cop starts telling me, completely straight facedly, that there are government satellites controlling weather patterns.

 

He says it's all tied to Tesla (of whose work I have read eagerly since I was a kid), hidden and stolen patents, and the government's control of agriculture and business development in developing world markets.

 

I nod assent, murmer something about Tesla, and the cop offers to bring by some papers that he says support his story.

 

Three days later, he did.

 

Mostly consisted of some copies of patent paperwork, a small pamphlet on Tesla, and some disjointed notes seemingly unconnected to the rest.

There are definitely some odd ducks out there in the flock. And some are watching out for the rest of us.

 

I agree with the sentiments regarding alcohol, definitely worse than some of the options, legal and otherwise, and not much of a thing for an enlightened society to spend so much time, money, and attention pursuing.

I do enjoy a good beer or two, but I have no illusions, it is a drug.

As the Duff commercials say,

"Grab a cold, frosty mug of the drug that you chug!"

 

Peace,

 

wraub

[skipclone 1]

Originally posted by Duhduh:

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

A friend of mine used to drive a taxi, he was shocked at the number of people who believe that the satellites being sent up are what`s responsible for the weird weather-I am serious, this is not just a few people.

Please explain this...

well there ya go, wraub`s example is one scenario. The notion is that the satellites that NASA says are monitoring the weather are actually controlling it, that anytime there`s a country we don`t like, that country may end up with a drought, or a flood. The chemtrail/contrail story plays into that also, that airlines are seeding the sky with chemecals cause the ozone problem is much worse than what we`ve been told and now we have to control the weather to keep everyone from getting UVd to death.

[Duhduh]

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

Originally posted by Duhduh:

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

A friend of mine used to drive a taxi, he was shocked at the number of people who believe that the satellites being sent up are what`s responsible for the weird weather-I am serious, this is not just a few people.

Please explain this...

well there ya go, wraub`s example is one scenario. The notion is that the satellites that NASA says are monitoring the weather are actually controlling it, that anytime there`s a country we don`t like, that country may end up with a drought, or a flood. The chemtrail/contrail story plays into that also, that airlines are seeding the sky with chemecals cause the ozone problem is much worse than what we`ve been told and now we have to control the weather to keep everyone from getting UVd to death.

Duh. I totally misread that. I thought you were saying how shocking it was how many people didn't believe the satellites were controlling weather.

 

I was expecting you to start talking about black helicopters and the city underneath Disneyland next.

[whitefang]

I must add that I suggested Pepsi to the young man because it was the only soft drink at the bash. But I must also add, to the relief of Coyote, that because the nephew's side of the family is largely diabetic, that it was DIET Pepsi.

 

And I could also say a few things about Pepsi addiction. Which is no joke. I've always preferred Coca Cola to Pepsi, but could take it or leave it. I didn't HAVE to have it. But I know people who drink Pepsi obsessively. My one old high school chum's family sat down with huge pewter mugs of the stuff as a nightly ritual. I can think of no other soft drink that envokes this type of thing. And my friend's family is only one example out of dozens I know of.

 

Whether the young man in my story is alcoholic or not is for him to fathom. The reply that tried to reiterate that alcoholism is a sickness missed the point. Many people can do "recreational" drugs much like the ones who only drink on occaision, but are not alcoholics. That is to say the former aren't neccessarily dope addicts. But the same compulsive behavior that sparks alcoholism is the same one that determines drug addiction. While many of the toxic qualities of street drugs could be pointed to as the cause, you have to ask why everyone who drinks ISN'T alcoholic. I dare say, had I LIKED the feeling of being drunk, I myself would have become alcoholic, instead of drug addicted, as I preferred those sensations instead.

 

The young man at the party might not be an alcoholic, but he does put himself in the danger by succumbing to the social illusion that says consuming large quantities(conehead alert!)of beer is seemingly harmless.

 

Whitefang

[noucho]

Whitefang,

 

As Magpel puts it, you should be careful about what you call addiction. There is physiolgical addiction, for example in most hard drugs : this is what will cause PHYSICAL PAIN when you try to stop taking this drug. But as far as cigarettes are concerned, this physiological addiction, although it exists, is supposed to last for less than a month after you've quit smoking. And however, cigarette addicts are anything but out of trouble a month after they've stopped. It's just a matter of psychological habit. As far as I'm concerned, as a smoker, smoking is just about a need to FILL A VOID - whenever you have nothing to do, or nothing in mind, or feel the need for something recomforting because you've had enough of working, etc. - that is a lot of times during the day.

Now I believe it's the same thing for most "social" drinkers, although I dont know what part of physiological dependance comes with real alcoholism. Most people learn to party and to drink at about the same age, and associate the two things.

 

So then it's just a matter a words. Do you call that a drug ? Or a big habit with serious medical drawbacks ?

[The Thrashole]

Alcohol is a drug with serious physical withdrawal symptoms. ever hear of DT's? Conversely there is no actual proof of a physical dependence on Weed. go figure.

[boosh]

Dangggg the thread title made me think you were selling.

[Tedly Nightshade]

I've heard from more than one heroin addict that kicking coffee is a lot harder than kicking heroin (kicking heroin is close to impossible). And from many that kicking cigarettes is harder than either- go to an NA meeting and count the cups of coffee and the cigarettes!

 

None of these drugs will kill you to kick though- barbiturate withdrawals can be fatal.

[Groovepusher Sly]

I thought you were talking about real Drugs .

 

Sly

[lakeside studios]

Whether one is addicted to drink, drugs, gambling, sex, or whatever, it's all addiction,and it is the same process you have to go through to kick the habit. You have to change yourself, in order to stay clean. And keep good company. And drink lots of water.

[whitefang]

Psycological or physiological makes little to no difference if that addiction causes any kind of harm to you or your loved ones. Gambling isn't a drug, true. But the addiction to it, albeit psycological, can cause the same damage to one's spouse, children, employment and self esteem as any narcotic. I feel that there's a connection somewhere. The same psycological patterns that would keep someone addicted to non-narcotics such as gambling or even create a foot fetish come into play long enough for either the booze or barbituates to take over. Some I know disagree with this. But they were alcoholics(or are, as they always refer), and were fed a particular dogma. Many "recovering" alcoholics see themselves as something different than a "dope fiend". And subsequently, as something better.

 

Whitefang

[Tedly Nightshade]

Lakeside's and Whitefang's last posts are very much the truth. Heed the wisdom folks!