Help!!! Newbie needs piano software/ Pianoteq / Ravenscroft / Your thoughts

[mrk7421]

OK.....my trusty Roland RD 300 GX has apparently crashed. A while back I purchased VI labs Ravenscroft software and installed it in a HP desktop computer. So far....no luck getting it to work. Right now it is in the shop at Mc Intosh Audio....who BTW is nationwide service center for Crumar,Hammond Suzuki, Viscount etc etc. Michael has not been able to resolve latency issues with this program. So.....I may be looking towards Pianoteq. Which version do you recommend?  ,,............................ I know little to nothing about how these software programs work and apparently neither do a number of qualified people who I have gone to for help with this. I don't feel like purchasing another piano for 2 to 4 k......I have Yamaha CP 5 for controller........Help! 

[ElmerJFudd]

20 minutes ago, mrk7421 said:

OK.....my trusty Roland RD 300 GX has apparently crashed. A while back I purchased VI labs Ravenscroft software and installed it in a HP desktop computer. So far....no luck getting it to work. Right now it is in the shop at Mc Intosh Audio....who BTW is nationwide service center for Crumar,Hammond Suzuki, Viscount etc etc. Michael has not been able to resolve latency issues with this program. So.....I may be looking towards Pianoteq. Which version do you recommend?  ,,............................ I know little to nothing about how these software programs work and apparently neither do a number of qualified people who I have gone to for help with this. I don't feel like purchasing another piano for 2 to 4 k......I have Yamaha CP 5 for controller........Help! 

Hi it is possible that the onboard sound card is not capable of low latency performance due to a lack to driver support for that purpose.  There have been people who successfully use a piece of freeware called asio4all which can be used as the driver for many generic soundcards.  
 

Another issue may be that the motherboard on this HP may not be designed with real time low latency streaming in mind due to components chosen by the manufacturer and the drivers available for the hardware.  A DPC latency check software will assist with revealing the problem.  
 

Changing software pianos will not solve these problems.  Using an external USB audio interface with dedicated low latency drivers would certainly help.  
 

But after using wall power and setting Windows for performance  and any other tweaks the service center you are using may be aware of and not getting results - the issue could very well be the PC.   

[JamPro]

For Newbies......when discussing problems you are having with a computer and musical software, be sure to include these important bits of information in your queries:

- what kind of processor the computer has*

- how much ram the computer has*

- what sort of hard-drive the computer has*

- the current operating system and version of the OS on the computer*

- what soundcard you have or how you are getting audio out of the computer*

- what the software product is and what version you are using.

 

*pretty much all of that information can be found on a Windows machine by looking at Settings/System

 

Lots of people have successfully used Ravencroft and Pianoteq to make music with their computers.  Advising you on which is better for your needs is pretty pointless without knowing the important information.

[mrk7421]

Right now the computer is in the shop.....I know it is 8 gig RAM right off the top of my head. I will call and get more details on it's capability but as I recall Ravenscroft only required 4 gig....the reason I got a desktop was because I knew it could be upgraded to do what I needed. .............I appreciate the feedback but may be looking to Pianoteq anyway. So for that I need opinions on what version to get. I should have enough juice to run whatever........keep in mind.....I have ZERO technical knowledge that may seem to be second nature to many of you.

[drawback]

23 minutes ago, mrk7421 said:

Right now the computer is in the shop.....I know it is 8 gig RAM right off the top of my head. I will call and get more details on it's capability but as I recall Ravenscroft only required 4 gig....the reason I got a desktop was because I knew it could be upgraded to do what I needed. .............I appreciate the feedback but may be looking to Pianoteq anyway. So for that I need opinions on what version to get. I should have enough juice to run whatever........keep in mind.....I have ZERO technical knowledge that may seem to be second nature to many of you.

Then get the cheapest version til you figure out how to use it. You can upgrade to the next level anytime. 

[Jose EB5AGV]

You can try the demo first 

[Docbop]

1 hour ago, mrk7421 said:

.keep in mind.....I have ZERO technical knowledge that may seem to be second nature to many of you.

Windows and music/audio software used to be a nightmare to configure, what I understand it easier now, but still you need some tech skill to resolve issues.  Once you get your computer back having ????  fixed before spending a lot of money on another piano package there is a free one you might want to download and get working.   That will be an inexpensive and hopefully easy way to get some piano and other keyboard sounds on your computer.   Also it has on screen a tiny keyboard so you can test even without a controller connected.

 

The software is StudioLogic Numa Player and they have versions for Windows,  Mac, and iOS.    I put it on my computer because it gave me a chance to see what the StudioLogic interface is like.   It comes with some basic sounds, not their good stuff it is free, but you'll get a couple APs, some EPs, and other KB family instruments and strings.  The software has some basic effects and you can create programs if you want.    I got the Mac version but the Window I would assume would be just as easy to install and use.  Here's the link if you want to try a free piano and get it working on your computer before spending more on another high end piano package. 

 

https://www.studiologic-music.com/support/numaplayer/

[Tusker]

1 hour ago, mrk7421 said:

I should have enough juice to run whatever........keep in mind.....I have ZERO technical knowledge that may seem to be second nature to many of you.

 

A lot of people don't have the courage to acknowledge that to themselves, so props to you. 👍

 

To help you set your expectations, computers are not a magic solution to the price/performance curve. If you are going to use a computer, you will need it to be stable, so you will need to acquire a little more technical knowledge than you currently have, in all likelihood. Are you ok with that?

 

In general, Windows machines are more customizable (and varied) than Macs, so a musician will often require less technical knowledge with a Mac than on a Windows platform. However there are many Windows computers that are simply plug-and-play like the Macs, particular when they have not been pre-loaded with bloatware.

 

Unlike keyboards, computers require a a bit of "stability protection." This can include making sure you have enough processor speed and Ram and but also making sure that there are no hardware or software conflicts. Since computers come in such a wide variety, it's unlikely that any of us has precisely the spec you have on your computer, but we may have some general advice for you to try. OK?

 

 

[David Emm]

I can recommend Pianoteq. It has a laughably small system footprint (117 MEGAbytes, not giga) and to my ear, a rich sound. Being a physical modeler, its triggering an algorithm, not WAV files, so it sounds too sterile for some players. That's purely subjective. I've played many a piano and IMO, a lot of manufacturers endorse Pianoteq because of its clarity. You can punch the bass and it'll speak up credibly, too. Note that you get a Steinway and a 2nd piano of your choice with the most basic version @ $149. There are a lot of optional pianos to buy if you have purist leanings, as well as some very nice oddities like tubular bells. Try the demo, drink in the tone and watch your CPU meter barely wiggle.

[ElmerJFudd]

30 minutes ago, David Emm said:

I can recommend Pianoteq. It has a laughably small system footprint (117 MEGAbytes, not giga) and to my ear, a rich sound. Being a physical modeler, its triggering an algorithm, not WAV files, so it sounds too sterile for some players. That's purely subjective. I've played many a piano and IMO, a lot of manufacturers endorse Pianoteq because of its clarity. You can punch the bass and it'll speak up credibly, too. Note that you get a Steinway and a 2nd piano of your choice with the most basic version @ $149. There are a lot of optional pianos to buy if you have purist leanings, as well as some very nice oddities like tubular bells. Try the demo, drink in the tone and watch your CPU meter barely wiggle.

At the moment we can’t assume any real time audio streaming app will be free of latency on his PC.    

[Docbop]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

At the moment we can’t assume any real time audio streaming app will be free of latency on his PC.    

At this point with his lack of Tech skills we have no idea what could be going on with that computer.   Back in the days when I did tech support for developer tools I had to work the install calls now and then the hardest part was getting people to tell you everything going on with their computer.    You'd ask them questions about their config and what things they've tried and it was all everything is perfect.  Fifteen wasted minutes they'd finally well I do <fill in the blank> and also have <fill in the blank> running, I didn't think it would matter.    So my guess there could be a lot of config issues on his system. 

[Fleer]

Pianoteq Standard with the Steinway D duo, the Bechstein and the Blüthner. 

[bill5]

10 hours ago, Docbop said:

Once you get your computer back having ????  fixed before spending a lot of money on another piano package there is a free one you might want to download and get working.   That will be an inexpensive and hopefully easy way to get some piano and other keyboard sounds on your computer. 

...and to that end, I suggest the Denver Grand and/or Ivy 162 Grand. Both sound great IMO and free. 

 

If you're dead set on Ravenscroft vs Pianoteq, keep in mind they are two diff animals. The first is "sampled" (actual recordings of each note from a real piano), the second is "modeled" (simulated piano sounds). Both have many fans, but the latter has the advantage of being much more tweakable and as stated above, a much smaller footprint. Is it worth the extra cost? There's no pat answer to that. 

 

[mrk7421]

At this point....yes I am leaning toward Pianoteq. What I am trying to find out is if this software is comparable to buying a whole new keyboard. As I may have said....I have pretty good controller with. CP5 Yamaha. I do not plan on gigging or moving any of this. As far as sampled vs.modeled....isnt Yamaha sampled and Roland modeled? I have always leaned toward Roland in that regard. The sampled lower register notes on the CP5 just suck whereas the modeled lower register notes on my now defunct Roland RD300gx were IMO vastly superior...so yes...the modeling is one reason I might be looking toward Pianoteq. I am just trying to determine if the basic version would be sufficient. ..........

 

[drawback]

1 hour ago, mrk7421 said:

I am just trying to determine if the basic version would be sufficient.

As posted earlier, you can download a free trial version of Pianoteq. It's the basic "Stage" level. They've disabled a few notes and you have to re-start the application every 20 minutes, but all the editing functions for that level are there. Then you can tell if it's enough for you. Each level provides you with deeper editing functions, which may or may not be necessary for you. If you want to try out the "Standard" level, that's available for free trial too, but a bit of a workaround to find it. Anyway, start with Stage and see for yourself. 

[ElmerJFudd]

Do the Pianoteq trial. See if you like both how it sounds and see if it performs with the latency performance you want.  

[Jose EB5AGV]

3 hours ago, mrk7421 said:

At this point....yes I am leaning toward Pianoteq. What I am trying to find out is if this software is comparable to buying a whole new keyboard. As I may have said....I have pretty good controller with. CP5 Yamaha. I do not plan on gigging or moving any of this. As far as sampled vs.modeled....isnt Yamaha sampled and Roland modeled? I have always leaned toward Roland in that regard. The sampled lower register notes on the CP5 just suck whereas the modeled lower register notes on my now defunct Roland RD300gx were IMO vastly superior...so yes...the modeling is one reason I might be looking toward Pianoteq. I am just trying to determine if the basic version would be sufficient. ..........

 

 

The Pianoteq software incorporates a "CPU meter" tool which tells you quite a lot of the performance of your system while running it. It should work with lesser PCs. It even runs on Raspberry Pi so you get the idea of it being not a CPU eater.

 

I have the Standard version along 6 or so libraries (all of them piano kind) and I use it from time to time, mostly with speakers. I get tired easily if using headphones with Pianoteq, still not sure why.

 

If you want to see what can be done with Pianoteq, look in YouTube for Phil Best videos. He really gets quite a lot from it.