Question for any Kurzweil SP7 owners/looking for buying advice

[Nethfel]

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum, so hopefully this question isn't against any rules

 

I'm currently contemplating a few different keyboards but where I live I can't find places that offer them so the try before you buy thing I'm kinda running into a brick wall...

 

Right now, I have a few pianos on the list - a couple stage/slab pianos (RD88, P515/525, SP7, Numa X GT), a couple stage/arranger workstations (Fantom-08, MODX8+ although I'm not a creator, the sound patches/tones/etc on these are really nice) and one lower end but still decent rompler (Juno-DS88) all have weighted keys.  This unit would be a secondary piano for me that I won't be gigging with (I'm not a great pianist ) but I don't want to depend on VSTs for sound which is why I'm avoiding a pure MIDI keyboard.  My main piano is a Yamaha so although I have a few on my list, I'm kind of steering towards something to have different sounds and feel.

 

The one I'm having a heck of a time finding, but looks like could be good is the Kurzweil SP7 but with none close I have no idea how the feel of it is and what its keybed is similar to.  If anyone here has the stage or the grand (yes, I know two different keybeds but am curious about both) could you share how the keys feel and what keybed it is most similar to? I'm hoping if it's similar to one I can find locally, if I haven't already tried it, it would at least give me a concept as to how it feels.

 

Also on the SP7, I've watched the few videos I can find on it and it sounds pretty nice - especially the piano - but have you found to sound like that in person?  What kind of decay / looping on the notes? Any major issues or problems with the keybed or any of the controls? I know it's still a fairly new board and it isn't cheap, but I don't want to yank it from my short list until I can be more sure whether it will work for me.  Any thoughts from owners would be greatly appreciated - it's close to my top end of what I plan to spend (modx8+ top of my budget) so it's kind of a big risk for me.

[zxcvbnm098]

I don't have this board, but I use an Artis 7 live, which I assume has a very similar soundset. I also had an SP4-7 prior to my Artis, and I can tell you sonically I love Kurzweil sounds, especially in a band setting which is what I principally use it for. 

 

To my ears, the Kurz sounds just sit in a live mix extremely well. Even certain sounds that by themselves are sometimes kinda "meh", when in use with guitars and a live band really sound great and come to life. YMMV, but to me it's really a strength of Kurzweil, which is why over the years you see them on stage and in live settings so often.  Former Kurz employee and sound designer Dave Weiser is a member of this forum, and in no small measure is one of the reasons their keyboards sound so great.

[The Piano Man]

Agree. I’ve owned lots of Kurzweil stuff:

- PC3x

- PC2r

- Micropiano

- KME61

- SP76

- SP4-7

 

I love the sounds. They sit so well in a mix. I particularly like the pianos (even the old Triple Strike), the strings, basses etc.

 

I believe the SP7 Grand has the TP110 from Fatar, which is a newer version of the TP100. I found the TP100 (which I owned in a Nord Stage 2 ex hp76) to be a fair compromise for the light weight, if a little sluggish. I haven’t tried the TP110. I believe the standard SP7 uses a Medeli hammer action. I had Medeli semi weighted in the SP4-7. It was fine but noticeably budget feeling. You get what you pay for. I love the TP40L but it’s pricey and makes the boards heavier. 
 

I own a Roland RD88, which I see you are also considering. I find it a very handy tool: a compact keyboard with a decent keybed and feature set at a low weight. However, I much prefer the Kurzweil sounds. I don’t think there is a Kurzweil 88 as compact as the RD88 in terms of depth though, so fair play to Roland for that. 

[Nethfel]

2 hours ago, The Piano Man said:

 

I love the sounds. They sit so well in a mix. I particularly like the pianos (even the old Triple Strike), the strings, basses etc.

 

I believe the SP7 Grand has the TP110 from Fatar, which is a newer version of the TP100. I found the TP100 (which I owned in a Nord Stage 2 ex hp76) to be a fair compromise for the light weight, if a little sluggish. I haven’t tried the TP110. I believe the standard SP7 uses a Medeli hammer action. I had Medeli semi weighted in the SP4-7. It was fine but noticeably budget feeling. You get what you pay for. I love the TP40L but it’s pricey and makes the boards heavier. 
 

I own a Roland RD88, which I see you are also considering. I find it a very handy tool: a compact keyboard with a decent keybed and feature set at a low weight. However, I much prefer the Kurzweil sounds. I don’t think there is a Kurzweil 88 as compact as the RD88 in terms of depth though, so fair play to Roland for that. 

 

I too am finding the recordings (or at least what I could find of the SP7 on youtube) of the Kurzweils to be very pleasing honestly - not sure how many velocity layers for the piano it has, but it does have a nice tone to it.  Your comment on the Fatar TP100 seems to be a common feeling on it - the only other unit I can find with a 110 is the numa x piano (non-GT) but once again, we're talking about a unit I can't find locally to feel :(.  I've never tried any Medeli keybed to my knowledge - weighted or otherwise so I have no way to compare.

 

The RD88 is compact, but the interface - ugh, not my favorite to have to menu dive for. every. little. setting.

 

Any keybed will be very different from what I play on normally - I just don't want something so bad that I'll want to chuck it across the room lol, and at the price of the SP7 grand I guess I have somewhat high expectations   Plus - it (like the Fantom-08 and the Modx8+) are at the top end of what I can afford/willing to pay for a secondary/backup/easily moveable/fun with the amount of sounds keyboard that I can still practice properly on with a fully weighted keybed.

 

I accidentally didn't multi quote (still getting used to the controls on this forum) but zxcvbnm098 - thank you for the info, I wish I was skilled enough to play in a band setting - but it sounds like from how you're describing, the Kurzweil keyboards usually work well with other instruments; very cool info.

[Coker]

I owned an SP88 for awhile and really enjoyed the sounds and most of the keybed.  At issue for me was that I couldn’t get beyond a certain attack velocity sound from the APs, if that makes sense.  It seemed like the pianos played fine until I tried to get some fff out of them, and then it just seemed like the keys bottomed out when I played hard, with no additional piano attack or volume.  My local GC had a MODX8, which to me played beautifully and had great other sounds beyond APs.  Organs for me are a little lacking as a lead instrument but work fine for layering.  I’m very happy I spent the extra $ for features I never thought I would use, because I have actually found good practical use for several of them.  Plus, it’s a fun to use instrument. 
 

Good luck on your quest.

[Nethfel]

15 minutes ago, Coker said:

I owned an SP88 for awhile and really enjoyed the sounds and most of the keybed.  At issue for me was that I couldn’t get beyond a certain attack velocity sound from the APs, if that makes sense.  It seemed like the pianos played fine until I tried to get some fff out of them, and then it just seemed like the keys bottomed out when I played hard, with no additional piano attack or volume.  My local GC had a MODX8, which to me played beautifully and had great other sounds beyond APs.  Organs for me are a little lacking as a lead instrument but work fine for layering.  I’m very happy I spent the extra $ for features I never thought I would use, because I have actually found good practical use for several of them.  Plus, it’s a fun to use instrument. 
 

Good luck on your quest.

Hmm, that's kinda concerning that it was having trouble reaching fff level out of it, I assume you tried different velocity settings (whatever Kurzweil calls them - hard/soft/normal/etc.) and got the same results?  And was that the 88 stage or grand (just wondering with the different keybeds if it affects the ability to reach fff)?  Did you try out the Fantom-0 before deciding on the MODX8 (although from what I've seen if you layer even just a few instruments, the supernatural piano will have lost notes fairly quickly due to the way the sounds work with the amount of polyphony)?  Thank you for the info!

[Coker]

I did try different velocity settings. In fairness, I have fairly heavy hands, and I’m not sure how that might have affected the playing.  I have no such issue on the two Yamaha boards I own.  This was not the Kurzweil grand, it was the sp88 stage piano. 
 

I guess the other reason I did not prefer the Kurzweil was that there was two much mysterious “programming” involved.  I like to just sit down, select a patch, maybe tweak a parameter or two, and play.  It may be that with time I could have set up the Kurzweil to my liking.

 

That being said, I did like the organization of patches on the Kurzweil.  If you tweak the parameters of one of the sounds in a patch, then all occurrences of that sound in other patches will also be revised.

[Dave Weiser]

3 hours ago, Nethfel said:

Hmm, that's kinda concerning that it was having trouble reaching fff level out of it, I assume you tried different velocity settings (whatever Kurzweil calls them - hard/soft/normal/etc.) and got the same results?  And was that the 88 stage or grand (just wondering with the different keybeds if it affects the ability to reach fff)?  Did you try out the Fantom-0 before deciding on the MODX8 (although from what I've seen if you layer even just a few instruments, the supernatural piano will have lost notes fairly quickly due to the way the sounds work with the amount of polyphony)?  Thank you for the info!

Note the SP88 was their entry level stage piano from the late 90s, and really can't be compared to the newer stuff. Even their boards from 10 years ago were light years ahead of the SP88.

 

[Coker]

I’m so sorry.  I said SP88 when I meant PC88. My comments refered to the PC88. 

[Dave Weiser]

On 10/18/2023 at 3:38 PM, Nethfel said:

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum, so hopefully this question isn't against any rules

 

I'm currently contemplating a few different keyboards but where I live I can't find places that offer them so the try before you buy thing I'm kinda running into a brick wall...

 

Right now, I have a few pianos on the list - a couple stage/slab pianos (RD88, P515/525, SP7, Numa X GT), a couple stage/arranger workstations (Fantom-08, MODX8+ although I'm not a creator, the sound patches/tones/etc on these are really nice) and one lower end but still decent rompler (Juno-DS88) all have weighted keys.  This unit would be a secondary piano for me that I won't be gigging with (I'm not a great pianist ) but I don't want to depend on VSTs for sound which is why I'm avoiding a pure MIDI keyboard.  My main piano is a Yamaha so although I have a few on my list, I'm kind of steering towards something to have different sounds and feel.

 

The one I'm having a heck of a time finding, but looks like could be good is the Kurzweil SP7 but with none close I have no idea how the feel of it is and what its keybed is similar to.  If anyone here has the stage or the grand (yes, I know two different keybeds but am curious about both) could you share how the keys feel and what keybed it is most similar to? I'm hoping if it's similar to one I can find locally, if I haven't already tried it, it would at least give me a concept as to how it feels.

 

Also on the SP7, I've watched the few videos I can find on it and it sounds pretty nice - especially the piano - but have you found to sound like that in person?  What kind of decay / looping on the notes? Any major issues or problems with the keybed or any of the controls? I know it's still a fairly new board and it isn't cheap, but I don't want to yank it from my short list until I can be more sure whether it will work for me.  Any thoughts from owners would be greatly appreciated - it's close to my top end of what I plan to spend (modx8+ top of my budget) so it's kind of a big risk for me.

 This might be tricky for two reasons:

 

1. Not many people own the SP7 as it's a newer addition.

 

2. The SP7 isn't built on the same VAST engine as the other Kurz pro boards, so comments from other Kurz owners might not be quite as helpful as they'd otherwise be. The PC3, Artis, SP4, SP6, Forte, PC4 and K2700 all share a common legacy and are built on the same concepts. Of course the newer boards (Forte, PC4 and K27) include bigger samples and more/better features, but the foundations are similar to that of the PC3 era boards.

 

I believe the SP7 draws from the same sample set as the PC4, but the programming tools under the hood seem to be more simple. (Note - programming tools are not just for geeks like myself. They also allow Kurz programmers to make more detailed factory patches.) The SP7 platform does seem to have some cool goodies, like touchscreen and vocoder capabilities. I'm looking forward to learning more about it. 

 

You might want to check out their PC4SE - it's basically a stage piano (on steroids) based on the PC4. https://kurzweil.com/pc4se/

All PC4 audio demos should apply to the SE. As with the PC4 and SP6, the enclosure is plastic, with a Medeli hammer action, but the build quality is good. Lots of advances have been made in plastic manufacturing over the past two decades. (I believe the MOD boards use a plastic enclosure as well.)

 

 

 

 

[Nethfel]

9 hours ago, Dave Weiser said:

 This might be tricky for two reasons:

 

1. Not many people own the SP7 as it's a newer addition.

 

2. The SP7 isn't built on the same VAST engine as the other Kurz pro boards, so comments from other Kurz owners might not be quite as helpful as they'd otherwise be. The PC3, Artis, SP4, SP6, Forte, PC4 and K2700 all share a common legacy and are built on the same concepts. Of course the newer boards (Forte, PC4 and K27) include bigger samples and more/better features, but the foundations are similar to that of the PC3 era boards.

 

I believe the SP7 draws from the same sample set as the PC4, but the programming tools under the hood seem to be more simple. (Note - programming tools are not just for geeks like myself. They also allow Kurz programmers to make more detailed factory patches.) The SP7 platform does seem to have some cool goodies, like touchscreen and vocoder capabilities. I'm looking forward to learning more about it. 

 

You might want to check out their PC4SE - it's basically a stage piano (on steroids) based on the PC4. https://kurzweil.com/pc4se/

All PC4 audio demos should apply to the SE. As with the PC4 and SP6, the enclosure is plastic, with a Medeli hammer action, but the build quality is good. Lots of advances have been made in plastic manufacturing over the past two decades. (I believe the MOD boards use a plastic enclosure as well.)

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your insight!  Honestly, when @Coker mentioned SP88 I had thought he was talking the sp7 88 and just mixed up the numbers - after reading his and your other responses I see my mistake now

 

I took a peek at the PC4SE last night after reading your response - it is an impressive keyboard.  The software looked pretty wild as well (went ahead and installed it just to see if I could at least see the various screens and controls, which it let me do - definitely has a lot in it.  It would be a fairly easy decision if it had audio in jacks or USB audio so if I did want to use a VST I wouldn't have to swap around a bunch of cables each time - that is one of the things I do like about the SP7 that it is audio usb compliant so I can just do a single cable hookup to my laptop.  I think it would be possible to put something like a arturia minifuse 2 in between; I'll have to consider it.  I will say it's a lot more keyboard than I need (as is the Fantom or Modx) as I'm much more of a player than a creator (who knows, maybe one day I'd be confident enough to try ).  the 4se does sit in the middle of the price range I'm looking at, and it does have a lot going for it. 

 

[mvshb]

On 10/20/2023 at 3:59 AM, Dave Weiser said:

 This might be tricky for two reasons:

 

1. Not many people own the SP7 as it's a newer addition.

 

2. The SP7 isn't built on the same VAST engine as the other Kurz pro boards, so comments from other Kurz owners might not be quite as helpful as they'd otherwise be. The PC3, Artis, SP4, SP6, Forte, PC4 and K2700 all share a common legacy and are built on the same concepts. Of course the newer boards (Forte, PC4 and K27) include bigger samples and more/better features, but the foundations are similar to that of the PC3 era boards.

 

I believe the SP7 draws from the same sample set as the PC4, but the programming tools under the hood seem to be more simple. (Note - programming tools are not just for geeks like myself. They also allow Kurz programmers to make more detailed factory patches.) The SP7 platform does seem to have some cool goodies, like touchscreen and vocoder capabilities. I'm looking forward to learning more about it. 

 

You might want to check out their PC4SE - it's basically a stage piano (on steroids) based on the PC4. https://kurzweil.com/pc4se/

All PC4 audio demos should apply to the SE. As with the PC4 and SP6, the enclosure is plastic, with a Medeli hammer action, but the build quality is good. Lots of advances have been made in plastic manufacturing over the past two decades. (I believe the MOD boards use a plastic enclosure as well.)

 

 

 

 

 

.

@Dave Weiser Looking at SP7 programs list.

.

Arrangement looks like GM presets. Programs are not same as PC4, or K2700
7ft japanese grand and PC3 series TS piano are missing
Does this mean the programs will be  better in PC4 even for preset player