Yamaha YC73 vs Nord Piano 5 73 dilemma

[MartinLeo]

This is my first post in this forum so please bear with me... I have posted this into another forum but didn't find an answer. I have a Yamaha CK61, and I'm absolutely delighted with the interface and sounds, but I need 73 keys because I don't like having to play with the octave up or down button. I also have a Korg C1 Air with weighted keys, so I don't see the need to go for a CK88, CP88, or YC88. Can anyone tell me if the piano sounds on the CP73/YC73 are better than on my CK61? I know the YC73 has FM synthesis, but I'm not a big fan of DX7 sounds either. I've seen some tables with the voice list, which is different among the three models, but I would like to have the opinion from anybody who is able to have both keyboards to tell if there's any significant improvement from YC/CP voices over the CK... Yes I know they share the AWM2 engine, the YC has FM synthesis, but... does it really sound any better?

 

On the other hand, what is the typical product lifecycle for Yamaha CP or YC? I ask because I understand that after releasing the CK series, the CP/YC range might become somewhat lacking, and I assume Yamaha will try to introduce something of higher quality into the market. Does it make any sense?

 

Yesterday, I had the opportunity to visit a musical instrument showroom and was able to try out the Nord Electro 6D 73, the Nord Piano 5 73, and the Yamaha YC73/88. Now I'm even more confused. I ruled out the Electro 6D because I really didn't like the waterfall keyboard at all. I absolutely loved the Piano 5 for its acoustic piano sound and the feel of the keybed; it's the one I connect with the most. The YC88 is too heavy for my liking (similar to my Korg C1), and I also find the YC73 too heavy compared to the Piano 5, which, in my opinion, is the most balanced for my playing style (personal preference). I love the interface of the YC73, and it reminds me a lot of my CK61, but I'm sure I won't use the drawbars for the organ part. I was pleasantly surprised by the construction of the Yamaha instruments as well. Right now, I'm about 60% convinced to buy the Nord Piano 5... the only thing that hasn't convinced me is the interface. Any friendly advice? Thanks in advance.

[UnderGroundGr]

Welcome to the forum!

[cphollis]

Welcome!  Long time Nord fan, but I also like Yamaha piano actions.

 

I use the short NP5 in two roles. 

 

First, as a standalone piano-style board for duo/trio acoustic stuff.  It is brilliant in that role, I want for no other.  Feel great, sounds magical, easy schlep, looks good, etc.

 

Second, as a bottom board driving a new NS4 for full electric band gigs.  As the NS4 sound arsenal is a superset of what is on the NP5 that works very well.  The response curves are matched, and it's all very red.  In that role, all sounds are produced by the NS4.  

 

The Yammie keyboards are wonderful from a piano player's perspective -- great feel, etc.  I just don't bond with them as I do with the Nords.   I also make great use of the extensive Nord sample library, which has saved my bacon from time to time. 

 

Example: band decides to play Uptown Funk and you've got to come up with a half-dozen signature samples for the next rehearsal.

 

It all gets down to personal preference at this point, as all the options are pretty darn good these days.

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, MartinLeo said:

I've seen some tables with the voice list, which is different among the three models, but I would like to have the opinion from anybody who is able to have both keyboards to tell if there's any significant improvement from YC/CP voices over the CK... Yes I know they share the AWM2 engine, the YC has FM synthesis, but... does it really sound any better?

 

I have not compared exhaustively, but I have found that some sounds are better on the YC (for example, it has a better flute sound), though the CK has more sounds overall.

 

As for the quality of the piano sounds, that's subjective. For example, if your favorite is the S700, that's on all three (CK, CP, YC). If you prefer the C7 (or C3 or Hamburg), the CK won't have it, the others do. Of you prefer the Imperial, only the CP has that one.

 

2 hours ago, MartinLeo said:

I absolutely loved the Piano 5 for its acoustic piano sound and the feel of the keybed; it's the one I connect with the most. The YC88 is too heavy for my liking (similar to my Korg C1), and I also find the YC73 too heavy compared to the Piano 5, which, in my opinion, is the most balanced for my playing style (personal preference).

 

Personally, I also prefer the Nord pianos sounds (and HA actions though I haven't played the NP5 in particular) to these Yamahas, except for probably preferring the Yamaha YC/CP 88 actions, though those are too heavy for me to carry around. I found the action on the 73-key Yamahas can really improve if you adjust their touch depth and offset parameters, though I expect I'd still prefer the Nord action.  As for non-piano sounds, I prefer the Yamaha for EP and most of the non piano sounds. The Nord has an advantage in letting you load custom samples, the Yamaha's have an advantage in making it easier to get sounds externally (i.e. from an iPhone/iPad).

 

2 hours ago, MartinLeo said:

I love the interface of the YC73, and it reminds me a lot of my CK61, but I'm sure I won't use the drawbars for the organ part...Right now, I'm about 60% convinced to buy the Nord Piano 5... the only thing that hasn't convinced me is the interface. Any friendly advice?

 

The main point that comes to mind here is that, if there's something about the front panel interface that you like on the Yamaha that you can't see how to do on the Nord, that probably doesn't mean it's harder to do on the Nord... more likely, it will mean the Nord can't do it at all. Related, the organ difference won't just be lack of drawbars... there's no good tonewheel organ sound in the Nord Piano at all.

[Stokely]

Personally, I'd always buy something for what it can do right now, how it sounds today.

There have been a lot of products that seem like a great platform that will have expansions (Korg Grandstage etc) but that after a bit are just left alone.   If you are happy with what you bought, no biggie.

Nord has a big library to mix and match (I assume the Piano can load a lot of these) while yamaha (I think) introduces more sounds via update.   Either way, evaluate what is out there now, it's always possible that nothing new or interesting to you comes out for either of them  

[Paul Woodward]

True about the Grandstage, but I don’t think anyone expected any expansion. We got some features and around 50 new sounds in the last update. Still a solid stage board.

As for CK/YC I had the YC61 and didn’t like the keybed, nor did the price I paid justify my use of it. Lots of ‘pro’ features were wasted on me, including the drawbars.

So, I now have the CK and love it so far. Has many sounds from the YC but not the VCM organ or the better rotary but hey, it’s less than half the price (but I personally don’t  think you are only getting half the features). It sounds like you have what you need from Yamaha in the CK so little point adding a big brother to it. Go with something different aka the Nord.

Have you considered a weighted controller keyboard that suits your playing style and run the CK pianos from it while using the CK as a top board? This is what I did with the YC. Sound engines aside, the CK has the same polyphony and number of sound engines as well as external and master keyboard features.

At the simplest level, your controller becomes a full range Yamaha piano and you still have two sounds to split or layer on the CK. Bring in a sound module or IOS device for additional sounds (Moogs for instance).

 

[stoken6]

First question: do you need an organ model (beyond what's in your CK)? If so, the Nord Piano is ruled out. If you don't, arguably you're paying over the odds for the YC73 (and should consider the CP73 instead - same keyboard action).

 

The Nord Electro has a hammer action ("/HP") model, but I don't like the action. As in: very, extremely, don't like the action. 

 

I would add the Studiologic Numa X 73 to your shortlist as well. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

MartinLeo, I think there is some confusion as to whether you are looking for a keyboard to use WITH the CK, or INSTEAD of the CK. Can you clear up what your intended usage is?

[MartinLeo]

2 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

Have you considered a weighted controller keyboard that suits your playing style and run the CK pianos from it while using the CK as a top board? This is what I did with the YC.

 

That sounds fine but I loved the sounds from the Nord Piano 5 and its keybed. I was thinking about using the CK on top, for organ, synths and for

the analog audio output from the Nord (bottom), so the CK will act as an USB audio interface for the Mac (Logic X). 
Does it make any sense?

[MartinLeo]

1 hour ago, stoken6 said:

First question: do you need an organ model (beyond what's in your CK)? If so, the Nord Piano is ruled out. If you don't, arguably you're paying over the odds for the YC73 (and should consider the CP73 instead - same keyboard action).

 

The Nord Electro has a hammer action ("/HP") model, but I don't like the action. As in: very, extremely, don't like the action. 

 

I would add the Studiologic Numa X 73 to your shortlist as well. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

I’m not that much into organ playing… guess the CK will work fine for me. 

CP/YC 73 keybed was too hard for my playing style. 
Didn’t liked the Electro 6D keybed but couldn’t try the HP. 
Will consider the Numa X 73, many thanks for that!

[MartinLeo]

58 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

MartinLeo, I think there is some confusion as to whether you are looking for a keyboard to use WITH the CK, or INSTEAD of the CK. Can you clear up what your intended usage is?

Yes, sorry for the misunderstanding, my fault. At first I thought to replace the CK with a YC, but now I see I must keep it and use another keyboard with it. IMHO the CK offers very much for the money you pay. If it had 73 keys with the feel of the Nord Piano 5 keybed it will be a killer. 

[MartinLeo]

On 9/21/2023 at 9:42 PM, MartinLeo said:

That sounds fine but I loved the sounds from the Nord Piano 5 and its keybed. I was thinking about using the CK on top, for organ, synths and for

the analog audio output from the Nord (bottom), so the CK will act as an USB audio interface for the Mac (Logic X). 
Does it make any sense?

So I went to the music store, tried de Numa X 73, liked much the sounds… but finally ordered a Nord Stage 4 73 HA 🤪

[ImproKeys]

On 9/26/2023 at 8:55 PM, MartinLeo said:

So I went to the music store, tried de Numa X 73, liked much the sounds… but finally ordered a Nord Stage 4 73 HA 🤪

Haha, that's fun and really my cup of tea. Bought the CK, thinking this will be it, done. After five months: bought the NS 4 (compact). You will find joy with the NS 4. End of debate. 😉

[MartinLeo]

Yes I’m sure about that. It’s out of stock and I didn’t received it yet. Is it possible to MIDI both keyboards to share the same sustain pedal? 

thanks in advance
 

[cphollis]

2 hours ago, MartinLeo said:

Yes I’m sure about that. It’s out of stock and I didn’t received it yet. Is it possible to MIDI both keyboards to share the same sustain pedal? 

thanks in advance
 

How are you using the two keyboards?  If the NS4 is generating all the sounds and the other keyboard is a slave, yes.

 

Also, the Nord User Forum is a wonderful place for questions like this: www.norduserforum.com

[MartinLeo]

I want to use sounds from both at the same time and be able to play the Yamaha CFX piano sound with the HS4. The Nord would be the master, and the Yamaha the slave. Thanks for the input from the Nord forum.

[ImproKeys]

That’s possible. 

[stoken6]

2 hours ago, MartinLeo said:

I want to use sounds from both at the same time and be able to play the Yamaha CFX piano sound with the HS4. The Nord would be the master, and the Yamaha the slave. Thanks for the input from the Nord forum.

But you want a single sustain pedal to sustain sounds played from the Nord, as well as from the CK's own keyboard? Might work, might not. I've had unpredictable success/failure with this, depending on which combination of boards are in play. I use two sustain pedals now (one of which double as a rotary slow/fast switch). 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[MartinLeo]

2 hours ago, stoken6 said:

But you want a single sustain pedal to sustain sounds played from the Nord, as well as from the CK's own keyboard? Might work, might not. I've had unpredictable success/failure with this, depending on which combination of boards are in play. I use two sustain pedals now (one of which double as a rotary slow/fast switch). 

 

Cheers, Mike.

Well.... that makes a lot of sense to me: two pedals could also work for both sustain and rotary switch. Many thanks for that!

[dickiefunk]

I only have experience with the Yamaha CP88, Nord Stage 3 and Yamaha YC61.

Regarding the CP88 and Nord Stage 3, I preferred the action and how the sample integrates with the keybed of the CP88 by quite a bit. I also prefer the piano sound in a live setting (along with many other sounds including the Rhodes). The Nords piano samples have more depth and adjustable sympathetic resonance that the CP and YC don’t have (though some of Yamahas boards have this including the cheaper P-515). 
The Nord also has adjustable mechanical noises which also add to the realism and can help in a solo classical/jazz performance.

I haven’t tried the 73 note keybeds but a colleague of mine has and he personally preferred the Nord.

[Paul Woodward]

I paired a korg piano with a YC61 (now a CK61). Sustain on the piano is sent to the CK which can be set to accept sustain etc. Second pedal into the CK set to CC9 for Leslie speed on organ sounds. Works great. 

[Dave Keys]

I believe Nord use Fatar actions, so if you like the feel and want to save a few thousand, is it worth trying something like a studiologic controller or a Numa Piano?

 

I personally think the actions are Nords main weakness, but of course, actions are a very personal thing.

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, Dave Keys said:

I believe Nord use Fatar actions, so if you like the feel and want to save a few thousand, is it worth trying something like a studiologic controller or a Numa Piano?

Not all Fatars are created equal. The TP/40 and /400 families are very different from the /100, and the (sprung) /8 and /9 are also unlike each other. Then there's the detail that the same action (TP/40M, say) can feel different in different installations. 

 

1 hour ago, Dave Keys said:

 

I personally think the actions are Nords main weakness, but of course, actions are a very personal thing.

The latest Nord hammer actions in the Piano 5 and Stage 4 are based on the /40, but with a third sensor, and have had great reports, including from those who didn't like Nord's earlier installations of the /40. 

 

I do agree that if you like the sounds of your CK upstairs, then a Numa X 73 is a great pairing for significantly less than the Nord Piano 5. The Numa has a TP/110 action, which is unknown to me, but many here like it. By contrast, the recent review in Sound on Sound of the Kurzweil SP7+ criticised the same TP/110 action. It's all very subjective...

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Paul Woodward]

Hooked my Grandstage up to the CK61. Fantastic setup for my needs, but having compared the pianos, its like night and day. The GS sounds rich and beautiful, the CFX sounds thin. Its fine at a push, but I wouldnt record with it. Played from the weighted RH3 keybed makes it more enjoyable, but I wouldn’t rely on its acoustic piano sounds alone, nor is the CFX sample comparable to the YC/CP piano even if they say it is.

[MartinLeo]

8 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

Hooked my Grandstage up to the CK61. Fantastic setup for my needs, but having compared the pianos, its like night and day. The GS sounds rich and beautiful, the CFX sounds thin. Its fine at a push, but I wouldnt record with it. Played from the weighted RH3 keybed makes it more enjoyable, but I wouldn’t rely on its acoustic piano sounds alone, nor is the CFX sample comparable to the YC/CP piano even if they say it is.

My Korg C1 Air also features the RH3 keybed but I haven’t hooked to the CK61 yet. The Nord Stage 4 that I have ordered has TP40/M and I really loved the action it has. Haven’t received it yet so I can’t have a clear picture of the action, just the 5 minutes I’ve spent in the music instrument’s store... Maybe the CFX from the CK61 will sound meh compared to the NS4, but I think it sounds pretty fine compared to what I have now (C1 Air and Soundstage/ Kontakt 7 VST). I will make an A/B test as soon as I receive it. 
 

Thanks

[Paul Woodward]

45 minutes ago, MartinLeo said:

My Korg C1 Air also features the RH3 keybed but I haven’t hooked to the CK61 yet. The Nord Stage 4 that I have ordered has TP40/M and I really loved the action it has. Haven’t received it yet so I can’t have a clear picture of the action, just the 5 minutes I’ve spent in the music instrument’s store... Maybe the CFX from the CK61 will sound meh compared to the NS4, but I think it sounds pretty fine compared to what I have now (C1 Air and Soundstage/ Kontakt 7 VST). I will make an A/B test as soon as I receive it. 
 

Thanks

Not sure what sound engine the C1 uses, but the GS takes its seven engines from the Kronos (albeit very limited editing). The pianos sound great and I love the RH3 action. 

[MartinLeo]

It took longer than expected but it’s finally here 😍

[ImproKeys]

2 hours ago, MartinLeo said:

It took longer than expected but it’s finally here 😍

Great combo! 👍

[obxa]

RE double sustain from one pedal- I've also done this before also with mixed results using the Ext keyboard function of the Nord, and can be stored per patch.  Anderton's affable Jack showing how he does it on his live rig, where I first got the idea.    At around 8:57

 

 

[stoken6]

I was going to post a description of the technique used in @obxa's video, but it relies on having a controller keyboard that can per-patch independently enable/disable sustain for internal sounds AND independently enable/disable sustain transmission over MIDI.

 

The NS4 is one such keyboard! Enjoy.

 

Cheers, Mike.