IEM versus a speaker monitor w/ear plugs

[cassdad]

So…. non-issue or not?  I really would appreciate some thoughts on this.  I have a real “uncomfortableness” with both In-Ear-Monitors (IEM) and ear plugs.  Perhaps it’s simply from not forcing myself to use IEM’s enough (I know the general consensus is that is the best way to go for many reasons).  But I’ve still spent major bucks fueled by the hype of magical ear plugs that supposedly keep all the frequencies at the same balance, just less ear-damaging volume (I haven’t found one yet that simply does that well).  All the ear plugs to date, to me, still sound “muffled” to some extent.

 

Regardless, my old-school self just likes to hear all players in the band, and myself and how I mix with them, which always pushes me back to ear plugs in the hope of doing so, but saving my ears.

 

Forgive me if this has already been discussed to death.  But unless you’re at the pro concert level, I’ve been hard-pressed to find a sound man adept enough to provide me the balance I need…. or someone paying the cost of all the “personal mixers” required to let me dial in exactly what I want to hear…. and then, still, it doesn’t sound “live” to me.  And then having the luxury of the set-up time, live, to adjust it to my satisfaction.  Ugh.  I’m not backing for Taylor Swift.  I have to make do with “simple”.  Any thoughts?

[B4i]

The two key benefits of IEMs are a) reduction in noise levels to your ears and b) ability to get the mix and balance as you want.

 

The ease with achieving b) depends on the gear you use. In my band the FOH desk is a Behringer XR18 so I use the P16M connected via a Cat5e cable. This gives me control of 16 channels for my IEMs. If your band uses another digital desk with remote control (via an app) then its also possible to achieve the same being sent a signal from a stereo aux bus and then you controlling the mix with the app.

 

If those options are not open to you others have success having a band minus keys mix sent to them, with control at their end being the band minus keys mix vs keys mix using a simple mixer. This does rely on the sound guy giving you the band minus mix you like.

 

I've found over the years that I don't need the full band. I tend to have my keys, my vocals, the guitars, lead vocal (in that order of volume). This is in part due to bleed into the other mics messing the mix (we typically play small stages) but also even with IEMs, its still possible to hear enough of the drums and feel the bass to not need them in the IEMs. Similarly I dont need the other backing vocals either 

[JamPro]

The Behringer P16M has no way to input signals except via the Cat5e cable - it will only work with a digital mixer that outputs via Cat5e.  This is a convenient solution (and I was surprised at the relatively inexpensive price) only if the band has already made a large investment in a digital PA.

 

Given that the option of simply using your native hearing during shows and rehearsal is hearing loss, some other solution is needed.  I myself have been using ear plugs and monitoring with a powered speaker.  But that solution is dictated more by the band's PA: I would prefer to use IEM, but the band does not mic the instruments, just the vocals.  It is possible I would hear the instruments bleeding thru the vocal mics, but I wouldn't be able to mix any of it to my taste.  So I'm going with a floor monitor and ear protection.

 

Your solution will depend on such factors: what you can tolerate or make work for you; what equipment you can buy; what equipment your band uses.  So it may not be possible to have a "simple" solution.  In my experience, playing live on stage is always a challenge, and involves compromises that may be uncomfortable.  I'm pretty sure Taylor Swift's back-up band will tell you the same.  Getting used to these uncomfortable compromises is part of the job.

[Stokely]

I've never tried really good earplugs to be fair, but wedges already suffer from lack of clarity (they sound good and "live"--I actually prefer singing with one--but not as crisp and clear as IEMs.  I'd think earplugs would make this worse.  One thing I dislike as a keys player about wedges--usually it ends up on one side so only one ear is getting the monitor mix.  The keyboard(s) make it pretty impossible to have it in front of you, and behind you is a recipe for feedback.

I have both a P16M for use with our Behringer mixer, and a Rolls p55 headphone amp when we don't use our own PA.  I have several options with these or straight out of my Key Largo mixer to go to a powered wedge.

In general I'd probably go with a wedge all the time but I am normally too close to the drums.  Two gigs this weekend, two small stages, two IEM gigs.  I don't like my ears ringing after shows and the drums are the only non-direct thing we use (sometimes the bassist uses an amp but thankfully no guitar amps.)

[Reezekeys]

There's a pretty long thread I started about using Apple Airpods Pro to protect your ears while hearing everything in a satisfying way.  Like cassdad I was never happy with the earplugs that claimed to reduce all frequencies evenly - things just sounded "muffled" to me. The Airpods used in "transparency" mode, while not a perfect solution, help a lot. The eartips seal my ears for passive spl reduction, then I add a little bit of the "transparency" to make up for the loss of high end. There are other buds that can do this too - Sony is one brand, I believe. I wish a developer would come up with an app to allow more control of the Airpods' abilities. Making the noise cancellation variable rather than full-on or full-off makes sense to me, though there could be reasons beyond my understanding why this wouldn't work.

 

I do use in-ears for my touring gig where we have a monitor person and each guy gets their own mix. The Airpods are for the little local hits where there's either no PA, a PA for vocals only, or a PA with no way to get an acceptable monitor mix to me.

[Chris Link]

I use IEMs whenever possible but have some of these custom made ACS earplugs. You can switch out the filters to get varying levels of protection. IIRC, I use the -15 dB for playing music and concerts. They do a reasonable job of decreasing the volume without changing the sound too much and are more comfortable than OTC ear plugs.

 

https://acscustom.com/uk/products/hearing-protection/pro-series

 

When I ordered mine, they had a US branch but I'm not seeing it now.

[Chris Link]

2 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

There's a pretty long thread I started about using Apple Airpods Pro to protect your ears while hearing everything in a satisfying way.  Like cassdad I was never happy with the earplugs that claimed to reduce all frequencies evenly - things just sounded "muffled" to me. The Airpods used in "transparency" mode, while not a perfect solution, help a lot. The eartips seal my ears for passive spl reduction, then I add a little bit of the "transparency" to make up for the loss of high end. There are other buds that can do this too - Sony is one brand, I believe. I wish a developer would come up with an app to allow more control of the Airpods' abilities. Making the noise cancellation variable rather than full-on or full-off makes sense to me, though there could be reasons beyond my understanding why this wouldn't work.

 

I do use in-ears for my touring gig where we have a monitor person and each guy gets their own mix. The Airpods are for the little local hits where there's either no PA, a PA for vocals only, or a PA with no way to get an acceptable monitor mix to me.

These are the Sonys from the previous discussion. They don't tout the variable active noise cancelling for ear protection in a live music setting, but that would seem to be a natural market for the product.

 

https://electronics.sony.com/audio/headphones/truly-wireless-earbuds/p/wf1000xm5-b

[Reezekeys]

9 hours ago, Chris Link said:

They don't tout the variable active noise cancelling for ear protection in a live music setting

 

I'd love to hear about any earbuds or headphones that have variable noise-cancelling! I don't think any exist. I truly think it would be a godsend for musicians like me looking to keep what's left of their hearing, but still want (or need!) to do gigs!

 

What makes the Airpod Pro's transparency feature unique is its "adaptive" option that introduces a limiter if the outside sound gets too loud. It would be great if Apple allowed developers to create apps where we could adjust the threshold and maybe the degree of limiting (i.e. more like a compressor with variable ratio). I've switched "adaptive" on and off during a gig and definitely noticed a difference, so I'll take what I can get right now.

[Stokely]

Quite honestly, I'd say find a quiet band.  They do exist, especially those where the drummer had an e-kit.   Granted that part there is like finding a unicorn, my buddy's band's drummer has a really nice Roland kit and it's so easy to mix live.   Short of that, regular in-ears like the Shure 215s sound fine and do a great job of saving your hearing.  The only time my ears have rung after a show in the past 6-7 years was when the PA only had wedges.

[Chris Link]

On 8/2/2023 at 10:06 PM, Reezekeys said:

 

I'd love to hear about any earbuds or headphones that have variable noise-cancelling! I don't think any exist. I truly think it would be a godsend for musicians like me looking to keep what's left of their hearing, but still want (or need!) to do gigs!

 

What makes the Airpod Pro's transparency feature unique is its "adaptive" option that introduces a limiter if the outside sound gets too loud. It would be great if Apple allowed developers to create apps where we could adjust the threshold and maybe the degree of limiting (i.e. more like a compressor with variable ratio). I've switched "adaptive" on and off during a gig and definitely noticed a difference, so I'll take what I can get right now.

Ibarch posted a screen shot of the Sony's controls and I misunderstood. It seems to have a variable amount of "ambient" volume. That could work in a music performance setting, couldn't it?

 

"The slider starts on the left  at full noise cancelling, then has  scale of 1 to 20 for ambient noise."

 

Near the top of page 4 here:

 

[Ibarch]

1 hour ago, Chris Link said:

Ibarch posted a screen shot of the Sony's controls and I misunderstood. It seems to have a variable amount of "ambient" volume. That could work in a music performance setting, couldn't it?

 

I think that there is a lot of potential here. My Sonys work well when I attend gigs and help protect my ears. I've yet to test them out when actually playing but I don't see why they wouldn't work there too. 

I would love to try the newest version, that have just been released but the price needs to drop a lot first. 

 

I'm not getting to worked up about the details of whether the Sonys do noise cancelling or active processing when passing ambient sound through. Having not tried the air pods I don't know what difference their adaptive transparency makes or how it compares. From multiple pages of discussion it appears there are some issues with Air pods lack of flexibility and limited options to control. On paper the Sonys  provide better controls but lack a limiter. 

 

I don't think there is a perfect answer yet. Ear buds are still improving and maybe we will see these items addressed in future versions. Maybe every ear bud will have limiters in a few years and fully featured noise cancelling and ambient \ transparent sound. Till then, we still have some good stuff now worth giving a go. 

[HammondDave]

I am in my late 60’s and play in three bands in the So Cal area. I have found that using custom earplugs fitted by an audiologist is my best solution.  They are comfortable and reduce the SPL by a significant margin (my ears don’t ring after shows).  If we have a sound person, then I ask for one dedicated wedge that feeds only my keys and drums (our drummer uses an electronic set). I can hear the other instruments clearly through the other monitors.  I would use IEM’s if we had a consistent sound person mixing our shows.  But many times we play bar gigs with quick setups.