It is official: the MONTAGE is OVER!

[ElmerJFudd]

Perhaps Montage successor gets a UI overhaul like CP/YC.  FM, AN and AWM2 engines. 

[Keyboardplayer]

Well, Yamaha has had 7 years to change things up, so I won't be surprised if the new Montage is also something very special. The original Montage at the time of release in 2016 was in my opinion a superb keyboard/synth, and garnered rave reviews from many experts in music production. Fast-forward to July 2023, I think Yamaha will knock it out of the park once again. Just a gut feeling, but technology has advanced immensely in the last decade and with Yamaha's superior sound, design, and engineering know how I think it's safe to assume we're in for a real treat. And what nobody has really talked about is MIDI 2.0. Yamaha has in-depth knowledge and did extensive collaboration with several other companies to help get MIDI 2.0 off the ground and integrated into devices such as their keyboards and pro audio equipment. Therefore, I also won't be surprised if the Montage successor has MIDI 2.0 compatibility with full implementation. MPE might also be in the cards, which could take acoustic instruments to a new level of authenticity as well as improve synth type sounds. Start saving those pennies. October is right around the corner, and hopefully Yamaha will give consumers a glimpse of what's in store before the official launch. Slowly leaking info as we gather steam for its much anticipated unveiling. Or so the theory goes, anyway. 😎  

[timwat]

The only thing I didn't like about the Montage at 2016 release was the schlep weight. I was never a Motif-family guy, as other brands' UI zeitgeist (Kurz, Korg) seemed easier to get to playing. But I was tempted to jump back into Yamaha-UI-decipher mode w Montage...but the weight.

 

MODX was therefore VERY tempting, and I just never pulled the trigger while several friends did. 

 

Very curious to see what the Yamaha NBT (Next Big Thing) turns out to be.

[zephonic]

Whatever it is, I hope they finally allow direct data transfer over USB. It was always baffling to me that the connection could handle audio and MIDI, but system updates or sample libraries still need to be transfered via a thumb drive. Inexplicable.

 

[RABid]

When I bought my Montage the big selling point that Yamaha was focusing on was "The Big Knob". After owning three different Motif's over the years the Montage felt like a big step in the wrong direction. With every patch being drowned in reverb and the hype over the big knob it felt like they were targeting easily impressed amateurs. After a couple months I sold it and bought a second Kronos 2. I've always liked the Yamaha sound and hope that is the focus of the next instrument.

[ProfD]

46 minutes ago, RABid said:

With every patch being drowned in reverb...

Just curious to know if the patches sounded any worse when the reverb was turned off or adjusted.😎

[RABid]

5 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Just curious to know if the patches sounded any worse when the reverb was turned off or adjusted.😎

To me the patches sounded better with the reverb dialed way back. I would never take a Montage on stage without first editing the patches and cutting back on reverb. That much reverb in a live setting is just asking for muddy sound.

[David Emm]

All of the deja vu reminds me of a transitional text panel on a news program I once saw, which read "Thesis, antithesis, prosthesis." Every mention of a new Anything immediately leads to wild conjecture and wish lists of features that pile it on to unreasonable degrees. Once it appears, the outrage begins over the price and the missing or undercooked features. Its the Circle of Synth Life.

 

I have no problem understanding the appeal of a workstation, with all of the related power under the hood. That's how I got up to speed. It just seems that we've grown past that idea, where the workload is shared between several devices that excel at their jobs in a big way. You sometimes get more of a favorite feature when an instrument is specialized. Cramming it all into one unit seems less appealing unless its a studio mainstay. 

 

Its not as if I won't be watching, of course. I'm loosely betting on a MODX framework with something utilizing Yamaha's AN teaser.

[ElmerJFudd]

Looks like Genos is leaving too.  I see existing stock being offered at $1k of off. 

[Sundown]

Kurzweil and Yamaha are my favorite digital hardware synths right now, but the Montage never really grabbed me, especially for the price. I would have either spent considerably less and bought a MODX, or I would have gladly settled for a used Motif XF. I don’t really need big swirling pads, so the big knob doesn’t really excite me much. The straight-ahead sounds of the Motif were more up my alley.

 

We’lll see what they come up with next.

 

Todd

[Docbop]

I'm trying to guess what Yamaha will replace the Montage with.   Yamaha has low end cover then performance boards with MoDX, CP, and YC.   Workstations are the rage like in the past and the Montage wasn't really a workstation like Kronos was.    Nord just raised the bar pricewise for a flagship performance board that includes a synth.   So will Yamaha try to create a competitor to the Stage 4 or are they going notch in below the Stage 4 price wise but similar feature list.    October could be very interesting in keyboard marketplace. 

I'm trying to guess what Yamaha will replace the Montage with.   Yamaha has low end cover then performance boards with MoDX, CP, and YC.   Workstations are the rage like in the past and the Montage wasn't really a workstation like Kronos was.    Nord just raised the bar pricewise for a flagship performance board that includes a synth.   So will Yamaha try to create a competitor to the Stage 4 or are they going notch in below the Stage 4 price wise but similar feature list.    October could be very interesting in keyboard marketplace. 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

3 hours ago, Sundown said:

so the big knob doesn’t really excite me much.

 

We’lll see what they come up with next.

 

The little knob.

[Bobby Simons]

I'll say this - that Montage action felt great, they better not screw with that. Back when I was considering a ModX88, my Guitar Center had one set up with the Montage directly above it. That ruined the ModX for me, lol, and I wasn't willing to spring for the better board at that time.

[CyberGene]

I rarely see Montages (or even MODX-es), Fantoms, etc. on stages nowadays. Almost all live musicians seem to prefer performance keyboards such as Nord-s, Yamaha CP/YC, a secondary keyboard that is most often a modern analog synth and/or possibly a controller with MainStage. I'm wondering who still uses these workstations? Mind you, I'm not interested in cover/tribute bands maybe that's where they are popular? I'm really happy that I sold my MODX. It was my fault, in the first place, to think it would serve me as a performance keyboard but doing a simple split was PITA. I had to read the reference manual to be able to make a split that supports multi-octave arpeggio that goes outside the split range (yep, there's a separate setting for arpeggios because the regular split settings cuts off these notes 🤦🏻‍♂️). I couldn't believe someone would release something as outrageously awkward in the 21st century but I was clueless because I later learned some people started with AWM many centuries ago and they needed compatibility or something and that's where all that BS is rooted, the AWM 😀

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, CyberGene said:

Almost all live musicians seem to prefer performance keyboards such as Nord-s, Yamaha CP/YC, a secondary keyboard that is most often a modern analog synth and/or possibly a controller with MainStage. I'm wondering who still uses these workstations?

Many live performance-oriented musicians had been using workstations for sounds only i.e. glorified synth/digital piano combo.

 

IMO, because a majority of workstation features have been under-utilized, it opened the market for performance-oriented KBs. 

 

Nord was the first manufacturer to recognize and capitalize on the market for KBs that focused on bread and butter sounds only.

 

The Nord Stage is the one KB that is everything everywhere all at once.

 

The big 3 manufacturers have slowly come around to stripping away workstation features and focusing on performance-oriented KBs to varying degrees (Korg SV series, Yamaha CP/YC, Roland RD-2000, etc.).

 

Yamaha tried to move in that direction with the 1st Montage.  It stripped away the workstation features of the Motif. 

 

The Montage was supposed to be a performance-oriented synth.  IMO, the Montage fell short because at its price-point, it couldn't compete with the Nord Stage.

 

If Yamaha wants the next iteration of the Montage to be a hit, it has to be performance-oriented enough to be a cheaper alternative to a Nord Stage. 😎

[Bobby Simons]

Personally, I'd prefer the YC to the Montage anyway, especially on stage. Fewer distractions.

 

[Stokely]

1 hour ago, CyberGene said:

I rarely see Montages (or even MODX-es), Fantoms, etc. on stages nowadays. Almost all live musicians seem to prefer performance keyboards such as Nord-s, Yamaha CP/YC, a secondary keyboard that is most often a modern analog synth and/or possibly a controller with MainStage. I'm wondering who still uses these workstations? Mind you, I'm not interested in cover/tribute bands maybe that's where they are popular? I'm really happy that I sold my MODX. It was my fault, in the first place, to think it would serve me as a performance keyboard but doing a simple split was PITA. I had to read the reference manual to be able to make a split that supports multi-octave arpeggio that goes outside the split range (yep, there's a separate setting for arpeggios because the regular split settings cuts off these notes 🤦🏻‍♂️). I couldn't believe someone would release something as outrageously awkward in the 21st century but I was clueless because I later learned some people started with AWM many centuries ago and they needed compatibility or something and that's where all that BS is rooted, the AWM 😀

I've owned a number of workstations and never once used  the sequencer on any of them.  Arpeggios once, when our drummer played to his own click and we were covering "Hella Good"  (I could restart the arp any time and know it would be in time at 160 bpm or whatever it was).   I have been in cover bands, and workstations offer the best flexibility and range of sounds.

That said, I'm now only using a Nord Stage 3, something I should have done years ago as it pares things down to what I need.  There's not a ton of buttons for functions I don't use, and no extra weight and size for same.   I do not need a million splits or use a bunch of samples (the only such is on Too Much Time on My Hands and lo! someone on the Nord forums did the programming and sampling for me!) as "in the ballpark" is fine.  Then again I don't play in a pop cover band where my impression is you have to get all those little sound fx and sequency things happening (sounds like my personal idea of hell).   I don't foresee getting another workstation in my lifetime, although never say never if one has the features I need.

I still have my Modx as a backup and don't find it that onerous to use.   Way better than my old Motif IMO, and I took to it a lot better than either of my Kurzweils.  Very subjective, getting along with an OS! Setting splits is about as hard or easy as past keyboards I've used.  I never do that kind of thing on the fly.   The NS3 is easier but it also has the limitation of less "parts" possible and the split points are set at certain locations--I love it personally but I can see it would be annoying for someone doing more splits than I am

[EscapeRocks]

On 7/18/2023 at 10:05 PM, zephonic said:

See, for me it was the opposite. I always found Yamaha keyboards unintuitive to operate, but Montage/MODX was clear to me from day one. And I say that as a Roland guy. I've had to look up something in the manual maybe twice?

Maybe I'm also an 'odd-man out.'

I find the MODX/Montage interface supremely easy to get around.  I feel the same about my Fantom-08.

[EscapeRocks]

18 hours ago, RABid said:

When I bought my Montage the big selling point that Yamaha was focusing on was "The Big Knob". After owning three different Motif's over the years the Montage felt like a big step in the wrong direction. With every patch being drowned in reverb and the hype over the big knob it felt like they were targeting easily impressed amateurs. After a couple months I sold it and bought a second Kronos 2. I've always liked the Yamaha sound and hope that is the focus of the next instrument.

 

I make extensive use of the Superknob on my MODX6.  It allows me to do complex things with one pedal without removing my hands from the keys..  The endless (well within it's own limitation) destinations and control of parameters that can be assigned to the Superknob is really cool....and I'm certainly not an easily impressed amateur.

[ProfD]

3 hours ago, Stokely said:

I've owned a number of workstations and never once used the sequencer on any of them. 

That said, I'm now only using a Nord Stage 3, something I should have done years ago as it pares things down to what I need.  There's not a ton of buttons for functions I don't use, and no extra weight and size for same.   I do not need a million splits or use a bunch of samples... 

I still have my Modx as a backup and don't find it that onerous to use.   

 

The NS3 is easier but it also has the limitation of less "parts" possible and the split points are set at certain locations--I love it personally...

At one time, workstation KBs provided the most sounds, features and best value to both stage and studio musicians. 

 

However, a number of features go unused on most workstation KBs (synth programming, sequencer, sampler, etc.).

 

Performance-oriented KBs containing the *right* sounds and real-time control features were designed for gigging musicians.😎

[ElmerJFudd]

5 hours ago, ProfD said:

Many live performance-oriented musicians had been using workstations for sounds only i.e. glorified synth/digital piano combo.

 

IMO, because a majority of workstation features have been under-utilized, it opened the market for performance-oriented KBs. 

 

Nord was the first manufacturer to recognize and capitalize on the market for KBs that focused on bread and butter sounds only.

 

The Nord Stage is the one KB that is everything everywhere all at once.

 

The big 3 manufacturers have slowly come around to stripping away workstation features and focusing on performance-oriented KBs to varying degrees (Korg SV series, Yamaha CP/YC, Roland RD-2000, etc.).

 

Yamaha tried to move in that direction with the 1st Montage.  It stripped away the workstation features of the Motif. 

 

The Montage was supposed to be a performance-oriented synth.  IMO, the Montage fell short because at its price-point, it couldn't compete with the Nord Stage.

 

If Yamaha wants the next iteration of the Montage to be a hit, it has to be performance-oriented enough to be a cheaper alternative to a Nord Stage. 😎

The attraction of the workstations was they were able to assist in composing and production and performance. All the sounds you’d need, arps, sequencer, in many cases sampling, audio tracks, fx and mixing.   That workflow was preferable to people who didn’t love the idea of working on a PC/Mac.  
 

Eventually a shift to  software DAWs, virtual  instruments, loops, time stretching, pitch correction, multi-gigabyte sample libraries, etc. etc.  on Mac/PC took off. Workstations began to look less capable, old fashioned.  Making sure Motif/Montage, Kronos, Fantom, etc. could integrate and work with Cubase, Logic, Ableton, etc. became a priority.  
 

Now, any hardware flagship keyboard/workstation has to have an audio interface, integrate with software DAWs as well as MainStage or other performance hosts.  Roland is in the midst of having their synthesis engines running on Mac/PC as well as their hardware instruments and sharing patches between the two. 
 

I’m curious to see what direction Yamaha goes with the next generation of their best keyboards. 

[Keyboardplayer]

I heard Yamaha will introduce the new Montage series at a similar price point as the outgoing Montage series. I'm guessing Yamaha will have an introductory offer for a limited time period. If the new Montage sells like hotcakes I think after a certain time frame Yamaha could increase the price(s) to adjust for inflation, higher labor costs, etc., especially if it exceeds expectations. So perhaps an intro of $3,999 for the 88 key although if Yamaha realizes they're sitting on a gold mine they might decide to ratchet things up a few notches pricewise. They did the same thing with the Genos. When the Genos was released in 2017 you could buy one online for $4,200 including tax and delivered to your doorstep if you knew where to look. No more. The Genos was a big success for Yamaha and they were selling at most online stores for $5,999 right up until just recently when Yamaha decided to lower the price a thousand bucks from what I understand. FWIW, I think we'll see a Genos successor announced in 2025 or maybe at the end of 2024. But I digress. Hopefully, Yamaha will decide to release bits and pieces of information about the new Montage before the October launch. Either way, the excitement will likely continue to grow because the original Montage was such a huge success and Yamaha undoubtedly wants to keep the ball rolling with its new Flagship.   

[pjd]

Just downloaded the free "Character Piano" library and installed it on MODX. (Yeah, technically not Montage). I really like the felt piano.

 

However, the "Felt Mono-SP Piano" Performance starts making snap, crackle and pop sounds as soon as it is selected. This Performance behavior seems busted and not intentional. Don't even need to hit a key to get sampled Rice Krispies. 🤔

 

Anyone else hearing this issue on MODX? Maybe I got a lemon...

 

Looking a gift horse in the mouth -- pj

 

[ElmerJFudd]

5 minutes ago, pjd said:

Just downloaded the free "Character Piano" library and installed it on MODX. (Yeah, technically not Montage). I really like the felt piano.

 

However, the "Felt Mono-SP Piano" Performance starts making snap, crackle and pop sounds as soon as it is selected. This Performance behavior seems busted and not intentional. Don't even need to hit a key to get sampled Rice Krispies. 🤔

 

Anyone else hearing this issue on MODX? Maybe I got a lemon...

 

Looking a gift horse in the mouth -- pj

 

Hmmm. Check the file size you expect the lib to be and what it actually is.  File corporation is just the first thing that comes to mind. 

[AnotherScott]

13 hours ago, CyberGene said:

I'm wondering who still uses these workstations? Mind you, I'm not interested in cover/tribute bands maybe that's where they are popular? 

 

I think that is one market. If you're covering stuff that goes beyond the "bread and butter" sounds, and you want to be able to get somewhat close to all the different kinds of sounds that have been used on hits over numerous decades, these kinds of boards excel at that kind of flexibility.

[kalpajazz]

6 hours ago, pjd said:

However, the "Felt Mono-SP Piano" Performance starts making snap, crackle and pop sounds as soon as it is selected. This Performance behavior seems busted and not intentional. Don't even need to hit a key to get sampled Rice Krispies. 🤔

Turn off the "vinyl record noise" effect

[Jose EB5AGV]

7 hours ago, pjd said:

Just downloaded the free "Character Piano" library and installed it on MODX. (Yeah, technically not Montage). I really like the felt piano.

 

However, the "Felt Mono-SP Piano" Performance starts making snap, crackle and pop sounds as soon as it is selected. This Performance behavior seems busted and not intentional. Don't even need to hit a key to get sampled Rice Krispies. 🤔

 

Anyone else hearing this issue on MODX? Maybe I got a lemon...

 

Looking a gift horse in the mouth -- pj

 

 

Yes, that also happens on my Montage. I thought they wanted to add some scratched vinyl-like sound to it 😅

[Jose EB5AGV]

23 hours ago, Bobby Simons said:

Personally, I'd prefer the YC to the Montage anyway, especially on stage. Fewer distractions.

 

 

I have another perspective to this... On my last gig, which had us at same level than the public and easily accessible by the sides, so people could get pretty close to us, lots of people were intrigued about the Montage I was playing. For sure all those lights made it look like a complex thing and me look as a better player than I am 🤣 (I know is is not that way, but some in the public thought otherwise)

 

So, well, at least for entertaining, it seems the more LEDs, the better 😅

[pjd]

11 hours ago, Jose EB5AGV said:

 

Yes, that also happens on my Montage. I thought they wanted to add some scratched vinyl-like sound to it 😅

 

Turns out, they did intend that! Kalpajazz got that right.

 

Yammy caught a few of us with that one. Quoting Kevin's post on YamahaSynth.com:

 

[quote]

Edited: I played with the performance a bit and found the noise is there with the Superknob turned all the way to the left but goes away as the knob is turned to the right (clockwise). Going further into effects I found the noise is coming from the "digital turntable, old record" effect in the "B" slot. the noise goes away when that's disabled. I guess that's the way it was designed but I have to ask "why?": sounds like a defect rather than "effect" in this case.

[/quote]

 

It's still kinda weird because the vinyl noise effect lingers into the next selected Performance. Go figure.

 

Thought it was my hearing aid... 😁

 

-- pj

 

 

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, pjd said:

Turns out, they did intend that!

 

"digital turntable, old record" effect in the "B" slot.

So, Yamaha has finally caught on to offering the vinyl noise effect as part of a sound. 😁

 

Prepared piano sounds have become a thing.  All of the cool kids are using it.🤣😎