Seeking for the essentials...

[dalpozlead]

Not expecting any magical response or guidance, I assume all of us around here faced this conundrum once…

My home studio is basically controlled by a PC (with lots of VSTs) with the following synths: Triton extreme, Krome EX, Jupiter XM, JD-08, K-2661, 2 DW-8000s, JD-990, JV-1010, Juno stage, Summit, JD-Xa, FA-06, MIDI boxes and kilometers of cables…

In one side I have huge GAS (Nord Stage 4 is in my bucket list) and I love to see all of this connected and ready to rock…. In the other side I’d love to have a smaller home rig, with compact systems that could deliver the same results, but I can’t renounce some classics (at least for me…, the K2661 is the only that can reproduce the great Jordan Rudess original lead tone, DW-8000 surprises me each time I deep-dive on programming it, Triton extreme still delivers the best pads and leads and its keybed is so great…..Krome EX is a ready tool for quick jams and bread & butter sounds…).

Also, the fact that used gear prices are so low (in Brazil) makes harder to sell as it wouldn’t really support to reinvest in new gear.

In essence, my struggle is real and I’ll never have 100% if I sell some of this gear, I’ll just have to learn how to deal with the loss (and maybe try programming a 99% similar tones in the other synths to replace the patches).

Thanks for reading…Happy Sunday!

 

[RABid]

My goal is to reduce to two keyboards. I really liked the sounds I was getting from my Xm so I picked up a Jupiter X to cover my analog sound desires. Next on my list is a Fantom 7. Big enough for two hand playing. All the sounds that I want, and huge polyphony. I will hang on to my dp and clonewheel for a while, but I will be set with those two keyboards.

[ElmerJFudd]

Sell off all your digital synths, especially the ROMplers.  They’ve been multi sampled to death in many formats and/or there’s already a VST.  Definitely sell any board you haven’t played for a year or more.  

The only synths worth owning are analogue, and even that is questionable given how good the modeling is getting with synths and fx.  

Keep only the keyboards that are excellent controllers, offer unique controls (knobby, after touch, poly after touch, ribbon controller, controller pedal inputs, etc.).  
 

Sometimes you have to admit to yourself (and possibly your spouse 🤣), you’ve accumulated too much stuff. We can’t take it with us and there’s going to be new models every year we’d like to try.  Let the old stuff go if it isn’t getting played.  Especially if you have the samples and/or VST anyway.  
 

YMMV - everyone has the things they are into.  Cars, Guitars, Video Games, Board Games, Pinball Machines, Pets, Stamps & Coins, Lionel Trains, Motorcycles, Boats, Concert T-Shirts, 
 

 

[Stokely]

At home, I'm 100% "in the box".   I'd be pretty surprised if I couldn't reproduce just about anything (were I seeking particular things).  Heck, Alchemy that comes with Logic alone is capable of a ton and it's far from my only sound generator.   The advantages of this as can be imagined is a FAR simpler setup with no midi or audio wiring (other than a single usb from a controller), no patches or sysex to change, and a lot of savings in room (though it lacks the mojo of a room full of keyboards to be sure!).  No midi channels or multitimbral modes or sync issues etc.   Of course some people don't try to sequence everything in a midi studio at once, you can always record the audio from each source separately and not have to worry as much about that too.

For vintage keys sounds I often turn to Repro or Diva.  They sound amazing and are easy to program.  I have several minimoog emulators including Monark, but often just use Diva for sounds like that (again I'm not all that specific in my needs usually where something has to sound like a particular existing keyboard or module, ymmv).

[Theo Verelst]

I used to search for who made the synthesizer patches I liked on the machines I had access to, just like for quite a while I was interested in creating sounds like some the great well known productions exhibited.

 

It is not believable for me that the analog and digital synthesizers I owned or used since about half way the 1980's when I used them or when I heard them on good records grew on a random tree, dictated by causual technological progress angles and some talented programmers hacking away to make some cool (or hot) patches!

 

So, important class productions do not feature the result of basically some bitching nerds coming up with moderate sound hacks, and some lucky patch finds. There exists an understanding about the physics of sound, the working of electronics and all kinds of harmonic and perception rules, which creates parts as intended.

 

That's not necessarily a plot, but some certainly is. Not really like men playing domino or distributing the raisin bread among their friends, but the architecture and essential programs of sound synthesis devices contains essentials from knowledgeable sources.

 

Modern music software: not so much, at all.

 

T

 

[stoken6]

2 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Sell off all your digital synths, especially the ROMplers.  They’ve been multi sampled to death in many formats and/or there’s already a VST.  Definitely sell any board you haven’t played for a year or more.  

The only synths worth owning are analogue, and even that is questionable given how good the modeling is getting with synths and fx.  

Keep only the keyboards that are excellent controllers, offer unique controls (knobby, after touch, poly after touch, ribbon controller, controller pedal inputs, etc.).  

This is great advice. Although I would add that if you have a keyboard that qualifies as 3 (excellent controller) but not as1 (digital/ROMpler) it might still be worth keeping. Your K2661 possibly qualifies in this category.

 

You have huge Roland redundancy across Jupiter XM, JD-08, JD-990, JV-1010, Juno stage, JD-Xa. Surely one VA and one ROMpler from that collection would be sufficient. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Konnector]

Well, if you wish to retain most/all of the "flavors" of the hardware synths you currently have, you could punt the Krome EX, one of the DW8000's, all the Roland synths, and replace them with an Integra or Fantom...or Roland Cloud maybe? 

 

I did something similar to my pile of gear a couple of years ago as I don't gig these days, and find I'm using mostly VSTs for recording projects. Can't beat the convenience of VSTs for instant recall when working on a recording project...not to mention the spaghetti monster of cables/mixers, etc. that are no longer required. I still have several boards and a few rack modules that cover pretty much what I had before the purge without the excessive gear clutter and overlap. 

 

It's hard to part with gear you've had for a long time, but turning the page and moving on is usually a good thing in the end. I've done it more than once over the years with little to no regret. 

 

[Stokely]

1 hour ago, Theo Verelst said:

I used to search for who made the synthesizer patches I liked on the machines I had access to, just like for quite a while I was interested in creating sounds like some the great well known productions exhibited.

 

It is not believable for me that the analog and digital synthesizers I owned or used since about half way the 1980's when I used them or when I heard them on good records grew on a random tree, dictated by causual technological progress angles and some talented programmers hacking away to make some cool (or hot) patches!

 

So, important class productions do not feature the result of basically some bitching nerds coming up with moderate sound hacks, and some lucky patch finds. There exists an understanding about the physics of sound, the working of electronics and all kinds of harmonic and perception rules, which creates parts as intended.

 

That's not necessarily a plot, but some certainly is. Not really like men playing domino or distributing the raisin bread among their friends, but the architecture and essential programs of sound synthesis devices contains essentials from knowledgeable sources.

 

Modern music software: not so much, at all.

 

T

 

Admittedly, I can't really follow all of this, but my impression as a non-music-programmer is that at least some of the software programmers are very well aware of what went into the hardware they are emulating.  If you make the argument that digital can't reproduce what analog hardware is capable of, then fine.   But some of the software engineers of today were the hardware guys of yesterday....Mike Scuffham at s-gear was apparently a big designer at Marshall decades ago for example.   Not sure if Urs ever worked for a hardware synth company but he sure has me fooled when it comes to understanding what goes into them and what he's trying to emulate in software.

But everyone has lots of choices.

[jazzpiano88]

I would consider Spectrasonics Omnisphere.    Eric Persing certainly has the credibility with his years as the sound designs for Roland.   I don't see a lot of detailed reviews of it on KC.    I know EscapeRocks loves his.   The list is certainly extensive!    Someday soon I will probably flip for this and Keyscape.

 

[David Emm]

Just randomly speaking:

 

* You DO have a lot of Roland overlap. The Jupiter Xm and JD-990 contain 99% of the goods. You could downsize the rest and lose nothing. You might want to keep the JV-1010 for its portability and great size-to-sound ratio.

 

* I can recommend Roland's Cloud D-50. It comes with the PG-1000 programmer and rivals the Jupiter X for containing a ton of Roland's history. All of the old Juno and Jupiter classics are in there, with sample-grade strings as well. This version fights well above its weight class.    

 

* I had a pair of DW-8000s, too. Stacking them live was a real winner. It was one of the earliest wavetable synths and its DNA has been in every Korg since. That includes your Triton Extreme. You could put one DW over it and sell the other. It might feel like selling your grandmother for magic beans, but you could.     

* Keeping the Kurzweil is a given. If you feed it long enough, it'll cover anything you can imagine.

[dalpozlead]

Super tks for the great inputs and advise so far.

It’s clear that I’m overlapping and have the option to have more VST alternatives in substitution of the “real” machines. 

I'll start defining my "must have" list... (e.g. Summit, JD-Xa, DW-8000), then I'll have a clearer view...

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, dalpozlead said:

Super tks for the great inputs and advise so far.

It’s clear that I’m overlapping and have the option to have more VST alternatives in substitution of the “real” machines. 

I'll start defining my "must have" list... (e.g. Summit, JD-Xa, DW-8000), then I'll have a clearer view...

👍 pick wisely, regain space, play on! 

[CHarrell]

9 hours ago, JazzPiano88 said:

I don't see a lot of detailed reviews of it on KC.

 

That's surprising, I always thought it was one of the most famous soft synths out there. It's legendary in the video game music community. 

 

Also, if this is a thread where I can avidly rep for Korg's VST collection, then so be it. I think I must've used at least one VST from it on every track I've done in the three years I've owned the bundle. Amazing deal--including the Triton!

[Theo Verelst]

The digital under certain conditions can imitate  the analog to a acceptable degree of sounding ok, but nobody normally ever gets there, and the "theoretical" knowledge from the sw devs I know about isn't enough to even begin with. They do even the most basic things wrong just like most users of romplers will not often be aware an natural instrument doesn't "sound" like an addition of samples, and what could (and should) be done about that. Correct simulation of the analog circuit AND preparation of the correct digital signal for correct tone quality coming out of the DAC and not sounding horrible in a listening room acoustically, is an immense and complicated job that mostly nobody does in the world of commercial music computer software.

 

T

 

[AROIOS]

On 6/18/2023 at 10:16 AM, Stokely said:

Admittedly, I can't really follow all of this, but my impression as a non-music-programmer is that at least some of the software programmers are very well aware of what went into the hardware they are emulating.  If you make the argument that digital can't reproduce what analog hardware is capable of, then fine.   But some of the software engineers of today were the hardware guys of yesterday....Mike Scuffham at s-gear was apparently a big designer at Marshall decades ago for example.   Not sure if Urs ever worked for a hardware synth company but he sure has me fooled when it comes to understanding what goes into them and what he's trying to emulate in software.

But everyone has lots of choices.

Humans are very "suggestible", often not even by external forces but our own imaginations. As a result, audio has always been, and will continue to be a business full of conformity, wishful thinking, make-believe and snakeoil salesmanship. And most reviews/opinions not backed by at least single-blind tests need to be taken with a giant grain of salt.