Studio monitors versus PA speakers for small jazz rehearsal space

[CharlieLosGatos]

I have about a 13x15 ft bedroom that I want to turn into a rehearsal space for a jazz combo with acoustic bass, guitar, piano, drums, vocals.  The speakers would be for vocals and maybe for piano.  Should I be looking at studio monitors or small PA speakers?  

 

Charlie

[timwat]

IMHO, horses for courses.

 

Studio monitors (at least, true studio monitors) generally are designed for reasonably flat response in a relatively small isosceles triangle listening context - near-field. No doubt you'll be able to find a pair that might serve admirably (you haven't stated budget range, BTW).

 

But 13x15 isn't a small box, and the fact you'll have enough acoustic instruments in there to make a racket (LOL, I realize you said jazz combo), suggests to me you'll benefit from the wider dispersion and greater headroom of adequately powered 8" or 10" self-powered PA speakers.

 

Of course, if you're going to spring for ATC SCM150 ASL studio monitors, I take it all back and I'm going to guess they'll do the job.

[D. Gauss]

floor monitors

[Docbop]

My buddy has a rehearsal setup like your talking about and he used a pair of powered PA type speakers on PA stands to get them up and it sounds and works great.   His Jazz singer can hear herself find and the instrument as all heard.   I wouldn't use studio monitors for all the reason Timwat said.    Floor monitor focus too much on a person versus speakers up on stands about head high so all can hear it.    In fact many rehearsals they only need one speaker up on a stand for everyone to hear. 

[ProfD]

PA speakers on poles. Run everything through a 16 channel digital mixer.

 

That way, in addition to working out song arrangements, the band can also work on their playing dynamics too. 😎

[Tusker]

Just joining the chorus here:

 

Studio monitors won't cut it. Small powered speakers on poles are a good bet for keeping overall sound levels down and getting you the clarity you seek.

[D. Gauss]

10 hours ago, Docbop said:

     Floor monitor focus too much on a person versus speakers up on stands about head high so all can hear it.    

 

 

OP is talking about a small bedroom with 5 people, an upright bass, keys and a drum kit crammed into it.  unless they're playing death metal songs instead of jazz, a single monitor on the floor should be more than enough for all to hear, and will help minimize all the sonic crap that's gonna bounce around in those closely spaced sheetrock walls. fwiw, I've recorded a 25 piece gospel choir in a very small space (small for fitting 25 people a grand piano and drum kit in it), and after much experimenting with methods mentioned above, found monitors on the floor to work best. Early episodes of Live from Daryl's House are a good example. YMMV.  (you can always put it on a pole later if it doesn't fit you needs)

[Docbop]

If you like shooting sound to peoples legs that's you choice.    Daryl's House is using floor monitors for the visual being it is filmed.   As I said in my post small space rehease get up in the air so they can be heard by all.   Church I worked for all choir monitors were suspended from ceiling for better coverage to whole choir.   

 

Bottom line we're all just here offering our opinions based on our own experiences.   The OP will decide what they think sound good for them. 

[Stokely]

We can't have practices anymore--drummer and bassist work multiple jobs and are too busy--but I resolved that my next one in a similar size space was going to be with IEMs.  No matter what speakers or wedges we have used, I can't hear as well as I'd like, and practice is when you really need to hear well as you work things out IMO.  Now, we aren't playing jazz and that might make a big difference   At low levels the speakers are fine, but the minute acoustic drums play at anything near regular volume it's just a big wash of reflected sound.   It would likely help to be in a treated space (with good thick bass traps and panels) but we were typically in a living room.

[cphollis]

I would use this as an opportunity to get everyone on IEMs.  In that small of a space, your vocal microphones will likely pick up everything in the room,  including the monitor wash.  Unless everyone is *very* disciplined (drummer, etc.) the mix can easily turn to mush.  While floor monitors *can* work, I have found them very difficult to make work well.  With quality IEMs now ~$50, it's hard to make a case for floor wedges anymore.

[stoken6]

IEMs and a Roland HS-5?

 

Cheers, Mike

[Mark Schmieder]

Some people can't handle IEM's. I get immediate ear issues if I block off oxygen to the ear -- a lifelong problem that I share with my Dad (so it's likely hereditary). It can also affect playing dynamics and requires a lot of adjustment time that may not be part of the rehearsal schedule -- as my jazz combo discovered during recent recording sessions.

 

We currently only need monitoring for an occasional vocalist and the keyboardist (digital vs. acoustic). I have managed to tame the drums considerably, but trumpet is loud. Sometimes the sax player needs a mic, but not usually at rehearsals. I have some acoustical treatment plans if my deadbeat tenants ever pay me even 1% of what they owe.

 

Our rehearsal space is slightly bigger in the lengthwise dimension but otherwise I am in a similar situation to the O.P. The keyboardist brings an awful floor wedge monitor. The budget isn't there at the moment, for a P/A w/ stand, although originally I had planned it for this summer. I am not sure why people think stereo is useful or essential.

 

I suppose I should be thankful that the keyboardist bought a floor wedge instead of a dreaded keyboard amplifier. 🙂 But yikes, it sure isn't working well for the vocalist! We have to crank it up so high, on the edge of feedback, for her to hear herself. But she's a mic-only singer. If it was me, little amplification would be needed (diaphragm!).

[David R]

I can’t play improvised music on IEMs - or rather, I can but I despise it.

 

A drummer I work with frequently has a small Yamaha StagePAS system, which is dedicated for vocals and keys (mic’ed upright piano, Fender Rhodes, Nord). There’s a bass amp in the space and everything else (drums, horns) are acoustic. 

[Stokely]

Not sure if ambient port IEMS (like the Westone am series) would help with that O2 issue.

My normal screed on practice, which might not work with brass and such and with jazz, is that practices can largely be quiet if people are willing to do it.  Work through the song structure with the drummer whapping a chair cushion and at conversation volume.  When and if you do turn up, at least your ears aren't burned by hours of high volume and at least you'll know that people know the song.  You can hide behind a wall of music but not at low volume.

I can relate to the part about being in a small room that is so loud that the vocal mics are feeding back.  It's just dumb.  I'm dumb for sitting in the middle of it so many times

[J_tour]

At least one PA speaker, plus small mixer, would seem to be ideal. 

Although I use the KRK Classic 5s in my home office with a cheap amp emulator (Joyo American Sound), a touch of reverb, through a little line mixer for those few times I want to hear something different than the acoustic sound of my Ibanez AF55 (cheap-but-adequate archtop hollowbody guitar....hint....I suck at guitar!)

I don't know that either option (powered PA monitor, with whatever size speakers) or a studio monitor is *wrong*, in a tiny space with only a few people (yes, you *could* add maybe some kind of multi-effect processor in front of the studio monitors, to dial in EQ, which you could just as easily do with a mixer), but unless you're just using equipment you already have around, might as well buy the proper tool for what you need.

You wouldn't play a show with studio monitors, even for self-monitoring, not least because you'd probably end up destroying them, so while it would work for just intimate reheasals, it's not that versatile a purchase, IMHO.

And, yes, stand please for the PA monitor.  It might look a little silly, but IMHO it must be done!

[Joe Muscara]

I can't imagine people playing acoustic jazz with IEMs. Well, I can, but it doesn't seem likely. I doubt the venues Charlie of the Cats would be bringing this group to would be conducive to that, either. Using IEMs in a small space with everything miked doesn't seem like it would work well as I would guess it would be bleeding like crazy, and it would also require a lot of set up to mic everything since everyone is acoustic.

 

As far as using anything like near-field monitors, many moons ago I blew out the tweeters on my near-field monitors playing with a guitar player at my place. Make sure whatever you use has ample power for whatever volumes may occur.