New Yamaha wind synth -- this one might be meant as a replacement for the WX5?

[Mark Schmieder]

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical_instruments/winds/digital_wind_instruments/yds-120/features.html#product-tabs

 

Thanks to the New Product Announcement forum, I spotted this newbie just now and then found it at Yamaha's site.

 

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical_instruments/winds/digital_wind_instruments/yds-150/features.html#product-tabs

 

There are some subtle and not-so-subtle differences between the YDS-120 and the earlier YDS-150, but I'm too tired to spot them all.

 

The biggest differences are in the all-plastic body and the recorder-like mouthpiece, making the YDS-120 more like the WX5.

 

Not sure if they use the same sound engine; I think they are partially different if not entirely unique. YDS-120 is much cheaper.

 

The keys appear to be identical in every respect, as in they look to be the same inventory parts and attachments in both models.

[Mark Schmieder]

Actually, it looks like the entire mid section might be identical; just different mouthpiece and end caps (plastic vs. brass).

 

The sound engines do appear to be the same, but I'm too tired to line things up well enough for a thorough comparison.

 

By now, I've forgotten what we didn't like about the YDS-150 that we hoped would be "fixed" in any future model.

 

Likely, the YDS-120 isn't that model. But it is a better entry point for some people, especially price-wise.

 

The main thing that I'm too tired to stay up later to investigate tonight, is whether it can pass MIDI in either direction.

[Ivan May]

Yamaha is not really well known for their wind synths. Or at least if they are, they're not as well marketed as the Roland Aerophone or the AKAI EWI Synthesisers.

 

Michael Brecker used an AKAI EWI Synth for many years, and it's really interesting all the different effects he used on it.

[pjd]

14 hours ago, Mark Schmieder said:

The main thing that I'm too tired to stay up later to investigate tonight, is whether it can pass MIDI in either direction.

 

The YDS caught my eye, too.

 

No mention of MIDI support for the older YDS-150. No YDS-120 manuals yet. I'm not holding out much hope. (Bummer.)

 

-- pj

 

[El Lobo]

I'm a wind synth guy - I have a WX, an Aerophone, and EWI Solo. The reviews of the YDS 150 were pretty bad - people hated the sax sounds. Very quick look, the YDS 120 is lower cost and they removed the fake bell. If the sounds are the same as the 150 this is a no-go. If the sounds are much improved, Yamaha needs to make that case -- but that would downgrade the 150. Also the sounds are limited to sax emulations and a few others (i haven't checked this, may be wrong). All other wind synths have 100's of other sounds and can access unlimited other sounds. The 120 is a non-starter for me but might appeal to a niche market, especially players who want a practice sax they can play with headphones to work out scales and fingering and such. Wind synths are NOT good substitutes for sax because they do not require a sax embouchure. If you really want to practice sax, you need to practice on a ... wait for it ... sax. Duh. 

[Mark Schmieder]

I'm personally waiting for many years now for a WX-5 replacement, but I haven't used mine in a while anyway and may just give up on wind synthesis altogether at some point, now that I have learned the rudimentary basics of so many woodwind and brasswind instruments.

 

I absolutely despise the Akai, even after getting a free lesson from Michael Brecker. I can't deal with how it feels in the mouth, what it takes to get mouth-based expression (a constant chewing sensation like I'm eating plastic), or the electrical impulse hair trigger non-keys that work against standard woodwind technique. Some of their newer models may improve on things a bit, but I've been more strongly watching Roland's entries of late.

 

Thanks for the reminder that the sounds and lack of MIDI triggering were the deal-killers on the predecessor model. Those are likely carried over to this one.

 

I am surprised by the comment about Yamaha not being known for wind synthesis, when they ruled that market for many years, until giving up on it after the EU issued new regulations that lost them that market. Akai was better known for their brass synth than their woodwind synth at first, Michael Brecker aside, but began to dominate more as Casio fell away and Yamaha stopped putting out new models. Then Roland saw a niche and took advantage of it, based on the success of their digital accordion series.

[Fleer]

I also dislike the Akai EWI. Blowing blows. Apparently the Roland’s allow for better blowing. 
Here’s looking at the new Yammie. I liked the WX series’ looks. Color me interested. 

[El Lobo]

[El Lobo]

The video points out that the 120 has a recorder-style mouthpiece (as opposed to the fake reed and sax-style mouthpiece of the 150) and has the same sounds as the 150. In reviews of the 150 on Sax On The Web, the biggest criticism of the 150 was the sounds. 

 

The Aerophone Pro gets a lot of attention. There are videos and Facebook groups and software updates and help posts about resolving many of the problems that come with the more advanced and complex settings. I think the Aerophone Pro has emerged as wind synth market leader. I have the first model of the Aerophone and an EWI Solo. (I'm an inveterate early adopter of many things.) I prefer the EWI Solo. It does take some getting used to. I play sax and keyboard in my main band. I'm also playing tenor and bari sax in a 10-piece worldbeat originals jam band. I've tried out the Aerophone and the EWI at rehearsals but they just don't cut it for live playing, even through good powered speaker. I see videos of people playing the Aerophone Pro in live gigs, but that doesn't work for me. If you can play sax, play sax. It's so much better than a synth sound through a speaker. My 2¢. YMMV.

[Mark Schmieder]

My entire purpose for wind synthesis from the beginning, was brass instruments, especially trumpet. But I'm about to brave my first trumpet later this year, after having tested the waters with baritone horn, euphonium, and not very successfully so far (though I had to put it on hold for taxes), tenor trombone.

[Mark Schmieder]

You all convinced me, so I'm going to put my WX5 and hardshell case plus WX cable up for sale tomorrow. If only I could find the user manual, but as it is available on-line in PDF form, it's not worth wasting more time (I've spent an hour so far). Several things went missing in my move east and that might have been one of them.

 

I just don't think I have any use for wind synthesis anymore. Any instrument I don't play, I program after initial note entry, to get the best phrasing and articulations possible, using VSL, more like how composers work who use notation apps.

[uhoh7]

I have a WX7 and WX5 and a tenor and an Alto and a Clarinet. 

 

I reach for the real thing, although I like the WXs.

 

If was doing EWI, I'd take this:

 

and I would get the expression enhancements of MPE going with a reed-style mouth piece somehow. Nobody has properly connected the mouth to a synth, and only with the Osmose are the fingers getting closer.

[Mark Schmieder]

Interesting concept, that one.

 

I just put my WX5 up for auction. There's a lot on the site at the moment, though most are in Japan, and the prices vary wildly, so I veered towards the bottom even though the hardshell case was $120 and very few have that separately ordered accessory.

 

In conjunction with this decision, I decided NOT to attempt trumpet or orchestral horn (misnamed "French Horn, but academicians and others are trying to train people away from that terminology), or pocket trumpet (which I was about to go for). Instead, the alto horn (called the tenor horn in the U.K., which is confusing as there is something entirely different called the tenor horn in Germany). Hopefully later this year. It is like an Eb Baritone Horn (the latter being in Bb like Euphonium but not being part of the tuba family), and can have multiple personalities that cover orchestral horn and flugelhorn or cornet (but not really trumpet).

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, Mark Schmieder said:

Instead, the alto horn (called the tenor horn in the U.K., which is confusing as there is something entirely different called the tenor horn in Germany). Hopefully later this year. It is like an Eb Baritone Horn (the latter being in Bb like Euphonium but not being part of the tuba family), and can have multiple personalities that cover orchestral horn and flugelhorn or cornet (but not really trumpet).

Quoted for accuracy. Thanks Mark, those saxhorns always confuse me. 

 

Cheers, Mike

[Mark Schmieder]

Mike, the funny thing is that I found a webpage right after posting that, where the author insists that Alto Horn is only an appropriate term for instruments roughly 90-100 years old, which had narrower bore and other differences, and that the US is adopting the Tenor Horn terminology, at least for Brass Bands. And yet, Yamaha call theirs an Alto Horn. Maybe only in the US market? They use different names and models around the world, so out of curiosity I may try to check this out now.

 

UPDATE: The Yamaha Japan website refers to it as an Eb Tuba, according to the Japanese translation I ran on the ideograms.

 

Yamaha Europe and Yamaha UK/Ireland call it the Alto (Tenor) Horn. All three markets use the same model number as for the USA.

[Michael Wright]

interesting.  Might be the answer for me.  I have not taken my sax out for a gig in a very long time, not wanting to take an expensive horn into the places I get to play. 

[uhoh7]

It looks to me like the YDS 150 is pressure only without the additional little bar which detects "reed pressure" on WX7/5...in which case the more expensive emeo would be more fun to play maybe....but all of them so lame compared to acoustic, unless I'm missing something. What did Yamaha have to leave out to get "EU legal" again, after the WX series was banned?

 

OK I guess it's totally stand alone? Amp etc onboard? I would like to hear one....in person.

 

He's not loving it LOL:

 

He did like the emeo....mainly because it's a real body, so you do get some practice. 

[El Lobo]

Thanks for the Better Sax vid about the YDS-150. I agree with everything he says. I haven't played one but his explanations about the features that are or aren't there are right on. 

[Dr Mike Metlay]

I am not a wind player, but I follow the technology very closely. I have two comments on this thread:

 

1. I think that the idea of "replacing" an acoustic ANYTHING with a synthesized ANYTHING completely misses the point of the latter. Those machines should be about opening horizons, not replacing gloriously expressive instruments that have decades or centuries of wonderful history.

 

2. I have many friends who played or play EWI as well as acoustic wind instruments. They found the original Aerophone uninspiring at best, but when the Aerophone Pro came out, at least three of them bought one and permanently retired their EWIs soon after. The combination of very playable feel with the fantastic built-in sound engine sold them.

 

mike

[Danh Pham]

How can I express my best feelings in playing a digitalizing instrument....I' ll be back with my sax then......