Recommendations for piano speakers.

[ART.]

Hello! I’m new here! I’m looking for some guidance on speakers for my piano! I had a RD-2000 and couldn’t get along with it, and had a dgx-670 before and loved it! I sold the RD and now have a Yamaha cp88. It’s everything I dreamed of and more! I’m a stickler on crisp clear bright sound like Yamaha provides. I have 2 JBL 305 studio monitors coming out of a scarlett 2i2. They just don’t cut it, it’s time to upgrade. Any suggestions? It’s overwhelming looking at studio monitors and keyboard amps. I cannot stand the Roland KC series. They sound boxy to me. I’m looking for something primarily for at home use right now. My Sweetwater rep recommended a new interface and a pair of focal Alpha Evo’s, I’m leaning towards that route or a keyboard amp but am unsure. Any feedback on the vox keyboard amp or Behringer or anything? Or is studio monitor route the way to go?

[timwat]

Welcome to the forum! Hope you find it friendly here.

 

So about amplification for digital piano - a little more information might help, as the 305s are quite a good value at that price point. So therefore:

 

1) What is it about the JBLs that isn't cutting it? Is it the lack of bottom end heft (presuming you're not running these with a studio subwoofer), or overall lack of volume before unpleasant artifacts / breakup / distortion?

 

2) What kind of volume are you looking for...something close to "grand piano in the room at full stick"? Or louder?

 

3) What is your budget? I could recommend big ATC 3-way studio monitors, but you didn't say you wanted to spend $23K on a pair.

 

I'm sure if you provide a little more information, plenty of us can provide recommendations to help you spend your money. We're good at that here.

 

[stoken6]

42 minutes ago, ART. said:

Any feedback on the vox keyboard amp or Behringer or anything? Or is studio monitor route the way to go?

If you're looking for home use, and the JBLs aren't doing it for you, then Vox or Behringer's "designed for the stage" products are not the droids you are looking for. Timwat has the questions you need to answer.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[ART.]

The JBL’s kind of seem to have to much of a muddy low end in my opinion. My room isn’t acoustically treated as I won’t be living in this space for years to come so don’t want to dump money in acoustic treatment right now. They seem to have that “impressive” type of low end bass you see and hear on budget type speakers to impress, instead of a more flat response. So they seem to get kind of muddy to me to be honest. They are a great value and great sound, but they sound sort of muddy to me. I’m not looking to fill the whole house with volume, just something that’s a decent volume that can fill the room and sound pleasant. My budget is about 1200 right now for a new interface/speakers. I had in mind the volt 476 and focal’s, it would push me slightly over but that’s okay. I had a JBL LSR310 sub, but the bass got sort of crazy without bass traps in my bedroom space I’m using! Hope this helps!

[ElmerJFudd]

The JBLs are not a poor selection - I'll first ask how you have them placed.   The best case scenario would be on stands about 2-3ft behind the CP88 and about the width of the instrument apart from each other.   If you have them placed on a desk you should consider placing Auralex Mopads underneath them to keep certain frequencies from building up inside the desk.  

 

If the 305 model is not delivering enough volume or enough low end, you may consider going with a pair of 8" powered monitors like the Yamaha HS8.  JBL 308P, Kali Audio LP8.  The same placement ideas apply as above.  But you'll need some additional throw space behind the CP88.  How large is the room you are practicing in?  

[ART.]

I have my desk to my right of the CP88 which is against a wall, and the JBL’s are pointed toward my right side. I know that’s not how it’s supposed to be, but I’ve also had it in front of my desk with the JBL’s pointed toward me and felt the same way. If I have it in front of my desk I’m unable to use my Kontrol s61 as it is in my desk keyboard tray. My idea is to get some speaker stands and out whatever speakers I end up with on the stands behind my CP. I do not have them on auralex foams though. Maybe that could be the buildup I’m hearing of the frequencies I’m talking about. I do really like the JBL’s for regular listening, my plan is to keep them on my desk for when I use my kontrol s61 and have another pair of monitors by my CP for the CP’s output.

[cphollis]

Welcome!

 

I would suggest putting on a pair of headphones to get your sound right in your head, and then experimenting with various speaker positions and settings in an attempt to recreate it.  At least you'll have something to aim for, right?

 

One the problems with what I think you are doing is that there's nothing really to compare it to, so you have a tough time figuring out what "good" might sound like.   If you go through that process and are still dissatisfied, at least you'll have a better idea of why, and what to look for in your next iteration.

 

Me?  When playing digital instruments, it's a pair of $50 headphones (or IEMs) 100% of the time.  Love'em.  But I'm not trying to create an acoustic piano experience, either.  I use a pair of Focals that are well-placed L and R for mixdown.  And, thankfully, a good acoustic piano when I'm in the mood.

 

Lots of good advice here, just gotta ask lotsa questions ....

[ART.]

I agree very much with you cphollis. I have some studio phones, I just prefer to play with speakers. It’s frustrating, I’m satisfied with all aspects of my gear right now except my speakers. 

[cphollis]

Part of your frustration with your speakers is likely the small space you are using.  As speakers increase in size, power, etc. they need much more room to "breathe" and reverberate from the surrounding space.  Take a pair of something like QSC K8.2s and put them facing you in a large room, and you'll see what I mean.  It's a powerful experience and one we all crave! You're hearing the speakers + complex reverberation, wave interference and so on which you're not going to get much of with your face planted in your speakers.  Headphones and a small sub in the room are a nice compromise.

[ART.]

Boy this sure has turned my interest into the headphone region now. I have a cheap pair of Sterling Audio S452’s, but i could probably spring for a nicer pair, the cable on mine is sorta not the best and cuts in and out sometimes. Any suggestions on some nice cans? I think I’ll probably just keep the setup I have then, keep the scarlett 2i2, and run with some headphones for a while!

[timwat]

Good headphones are certainly a topic unto itself...there are good reasons to consider everything from Grado to Sennheiser to planars like Audeze or HiFiMan. Right now I use Philips X2HR open backs when I'm not using IEMs.

 

Back on topic, I notice you refer to the JBLs as muddy in the low end, a couple of times in your second post. That's interesting to me, I don't own the 305s but have used them...and didn't have that particular impression. But ears and listening rooms are certainly different. 

 

So I might suggest, if you decide to go with a different pair of speakers, to consider Yamaha HS8s. They aren't terribly expensive, but may be the droids you're looking for. But they won't sound as nice as the ATCs LOL

[ART.]

timwat I would love some ATC’s if money weren’t an obstacle. I also live in a condo building with 3 other units in it. The volume is an issue at times and I guess that’s why I’m probably going to lean toward headphones now after hearing it put like that. I don’t think I could go wrong there. I’d still like to upgrade the interface, but a good pair of headphones could really help my situation right now I’m sure. If and when I get new speakers I will definitely get something bigger than a 5” to really get that low end feel when playing the lower octaves. 

[cphollis]

Also, if you are *really* interested in piano + speaker combinations?

 

The Yamaha AvantGrand is renowned for recreating an acoustic piano experience using speakers.  The upright doesn't need much space, and sounds quite wonderful.  Also, head over to the Nord web site and see how they mount their monitors on their keyboards -- it's an optimal "in your face" position.

[Docbop]

I know what your going thru I had an RD-2000 and liked it except for the sound going directly into monitors.   I eventually from advice from my Sweetwater salesperson got and audio interface.  Having the audio interface helps get the low output of keyboard up and provides a line level output the monitors like.   Even with that finding monitors and a sound I like compared to headphone is tough.   the size monitors and placement are key to getting a good sound.   Monitor too big for a room you end up not pushing them enough to hit their sweet spot.   Placement issue if too close their sound is developing beyond your seated position.  Take a bit of experimenting to find the right combo of gear and placement.    My current setup somedays I like it a lot and other days I find I'm putting my headphone on instead.   The headphones always sound good and the recorded sound of my keyboard is good just the live sound in the room varies.   

 

Good luck on finding a combo that works for you. 

[D. Gauss]

The JBL's you have are more than fine. I mix records (for labels) on them every day.  As mentioned, your problem may be elsewhere.

 

If you must have new speakers, look into these (i also mix on this big, loud boxes):

PreSonus Sceptre S8 8 inch Powered Monitor

180W 8" Powered Monitor Speaker with Coaxial Speaker Alignment and 32-bit/96kHz Dual-core DSP Processor  

 

If you want cans, get these:

Audio-Technica ATH-M50x Closed-back Studio Monitoring Headphones.

 

also, fwiw, CP88 has balanced +4 outputs, so no need for a mixer to up level.

[ART.]

26 minutes ago, Docbop said:

I know what your going thru I had an RD-2000 and liked it except for the sound going directly into monitors.   I eventually from advice from my Sweetwater salesperson got and audio interface.  Having the audio interface helps get the low output of keyboard up and provides a line level output the monitors like.   Even with that finding monitors and a sound I like compared to headphone is tough.   the size monitors and placement are key to getting a good sound.   Monitor too big for a room you end up not pushing them enough to hit their sweet spot.   Placement issue if too close their sound is developing beyond your seated position.  Take a bit of experimenting to find the right combo of gear and placement.    My current setup somedays I like it a lot and other days I find I'm putting my headphone on instead.   The headphones always sound good and the recorded sound of my keyboard is good just the live sound in the room varies.   

 

Good luck on finding a combo that works for you.

Docbop I understand completely. I got tired of menu diving with the RD. The cp88 barely has any menus and none of the menus really have anything to do to adjust the sound of the pianos, etc. all the customization is on the top. I like that a lot.

[ART.]

D. Gauss I’m thinking my problem is elsewhere as well. I’m going to upgrade my interface and get some foam under the monitors and see if that helps. Other than that the only other thing I can think of is acoustic room treatment and placement of monitors.

[drawback]

Welcome, ART. I have the JBL 305P MkII speakers at my desk. For lower-end studio monitors they can be better than average value. It took me quite awhile to get the sound I was after – in fact I still go through this thing where I'm ready to upgrade, and then I think they're just fine for my small-room monitoring purposes. They have outstanding bass for their size, which can sound muddy, especially since they're rear-ported and in a small room, likely close to a wall or corner. Working with the filters, and getting them off the desk up to ear level with a pair of isolating speaker stands helped the most. Early on, I purchased a BBE Sonic Maximizer that helped dial in "that" headphone sound through the speakers. There's a split in opinions, but the broader consensus is that they give the most improvement to lower-end speakers. 

 

 

[ART.]

8 minutes ago, drawback said:

They have outstanding bass for their size, which can sound muddy, especially since they're rear-ported and in a small room, likely close to a wall or corner. 

 

 

I think that’s what I’m trying to explain. They are rear ported and they do sit against a wall but I have the boundary eq messed with. I think I need some foam under them and to get speaker stands maybe would help. Paired with headphones could be it. I do agree for the price of them they are good though!

[cassdad]

Have you simply tried extensively playing with different EQ settings?

[stoken6]

38 minutes ago, drawback said:

rear-ported and in a small room, likely close to a wall or corner.

This is likely the cause of the muddy. 

 

29 minutes ago, ART. said:

get speaker stands maybe would help

I would do this as a first step. Get them away from reflective surfaces and out into the open. If you drop $1k on more expensive speakers and put them on the same desk, you'll have the same complaints you have today.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[ART.]

This is a very true point stoken6. Going to get them away from the wall, as well as get a good set of cans. I have tried doing some eq, but I think I’ve been fighting an uphill battle with them being rear ported near a wall even with the boundary eq down. I appreciate all the help. Will update once a solution is reached. 

[Mills Dude]

Definitely try speaker stands and foam to place them on before you go down the new monitors rabbit hole. Its a fairly inexpensive route and likely good to have if you decide to ditch the JBLs for something different.

[drawback]

These are the stands I use at their tallest position so the JBLs are at ear level. If they're still too boomy, even after mixer eq and boundary settings, you might try partially blocking the rear ports lightly but only as a last resort.

 

[Doerfler]

these are what I use for acoustic piano monitering, very pleased with the results. I have mine placed horizontally, were I using them for studio reference, I would place them vertically

 

IK Multimedia MTM

 

https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/iloudmtm/?pkey=iloud-mtm-pair

 

I should add that that I have a setup that is specific for acoustic piano, seperate from the rest of all my studio gear.  

 

Kawai VPC-1 controller, VST du jour ( Galaxy Audio Noire currently gets a lot of attention), IK Multimedia MTM moniters.

 

It's the closest (within my budget) that I can get to an acoustic piano experience without actually being an acoustic piano.

 

 

 

 

[ART.]

I definitely am going to try speaker stands eventually and get the foam definitely under them! I did not know about the ILoud MTM’s, I just watched a video review of them I’m super impressed!