Weighted controller recommendations 73/76 or 88 key

[Paul Woodward]

Apologies if there is another thread about this, but I was playing my Yamaha YC61 today from a Korg Grandstage and was loving it. Would rather not take the GS out on the road as it’s embedded in my little office studio (and I don’t want it getting knackered in the road) so I was thinking of getting a weighted controller to drive the YC sounds while using the YC as a ‘second board’.

Like many musicians I keep buying (and selling) gear in this endless quest to get the perfect set up, but my goal is great sounds and playability with minimum gear/weight/bulk.

The YC (and an iPad if needed) gives me the sounds I need but I can’t really enjoy playing AP’s and EP’s on that 61 note waterfall. 
So, any suggestions for a good weighted controller that also won’t cost the earth. I even considered getting the Korg D1 as it has the RH3 keybed even if the sounds aren’t quite as good, but it would just be used as a controller. I also prefer the 73/76 note approach as it’s easier to get in the car.

All I have come across so far is the Studiologic SL73 studio. I don’t think I will ever really use any DAW controllers and the myriad of knobs and sliders that come with some controllers.

[ElmerJFudd]

21 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

Apologies if there is another thread about this, but I was playing my Yamaha YC61 today from a Korg Grandstage and was loving it. Would rather not take the GS out on the road as it’s embedded in my little office studio (and I don’t want it getting knackered in the road) so I was thinking of getting a weighted controller to drive the YC sounds while using the YC as a ‘second board’.

Like many musicians I keep buying (and selling) gear in this endless quest to get the perfect set up, but my goal is great sounds and playability with minimum gear/weight/bulk.

The YC (and an iPad if needed) gives me the sounds I need but I can’t really enjoy playing AP’s and EP’s on that 61 note waterfall. 
So, any suggestions for a good weighted controller that also won’t cost the earth. I even considered getting the Korg D1 as it has the RH3 keybed even if the sounds aren’t quite as good, but it would just be used as a controller. I also prefer the 73/76 note approach as it’s easier to get in the car.

All I have come across so far is the Studiologic SL73 studio. I don’t think I will ever really use any DAW controllers and the myriad of knobs and sliders that come with some controllers.

Do you need it to be any more than 88 weighted keys with 5 pin midi?  
 

If not, you don’t need to break the bank as anything from a Yamaha P, Roland FP, Kawai ES will do. Sure, Korg D1.  These are very commonly on the showroom floor so you can actually sit at one to see what feels right for you. Just double check the rear panel, as lately 5 pin midi getting ditched for USB is common as a cost cutting measure.  

[Paul Woodward]

4 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Do you need it to be any more than 88 weighted keys with 5 pin midi?  
 

If not, you don’t need to break the bank as anything from a Yamaha P, Roland FP, Kawai ES will do. Sure, Korg D1.  These are very commonly on the showroom floor so you can actually sit at one to see what feels right for you. 

No music shops near me any more and those in the nearest cities are limited in terms of keyboards I’m afraid. As for your question, in this case, it’s just 5 pin midi and a few edits such as TX midi etc. The challenge is getting something cheap ( but good) enough to literally warrant buying just to use as a keyboard to midi to another board without having so many controller features that you can’t justify buying it. 

[Paul Woodward]

I just came across the Kurzweil KM88 and it seems to fit the bill perfectly…until I saw the weight. 18.5 kg!!

[ElmerJFudd]

In this scenario I might be inclined to pickup a USB MIDI host box like the Dore or Kenton. 

 

https://www.doremidi.shop/products/doremidi-high-speed-usb-midi-host-box-midi-host-usb-to-midi-converter

 

https://kentonuk.com/product/midi-usb-host-mk3/

 

A little extra money, but it will let you use a USB only weighted 88k keyboard.  If you want a 73, Yamaha P121 is worth a look.  ES120 I feel is one of the best inexpensive compact action designs.  

 

[AnotherScott]

There are also lots of lightweight potential used models with 5-pin MIDI which may be available at lower prices, since a lot more lower end models used to include those connectors. e.g. Kawai ES100/ES110, Yamaha P85/P95/P35, Casio PX-100/110/120/300/310/320, among others.

[stoken6]

5-pin MIDI narrows the field. Scott's list is (of course) comprehensive. 

 

If you want 73/76-key, that's more complicated. Yamaha P121 if you can cope with using a USB host (as @ElmerJFudd posted). Otherwise, StudioLogic's Numa X Piano 73, Yamaha CP73 are relatively lightweight hammer-action 73s, although more expensive.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Paul Woodward]

4 hours ago, stoken6 said:

5-pin MIDI narrows the field. Scott's list is (of course) comprehensive. 

 

If you want 73/76-key, that's more complicated. Yamaha P121 if you can cope with using a USB host (as @ElmerJFudd posted). Otherwise, StudioLogic's Numa X Piano 73, Yamaha CP73 are relatively lightweight hammer-action 73s, although more expensive.

 

Cheers, Mike.

Thanks Mike, was just curious what there was at decent price/quality as just a controller. When we get into the realms of CP/YC73 I might as well take the GS out.

Looks like the SL73 and Kurz MK88 at the moment, but the latter is just too heavy. 
Of course, one option is to leave the controller in the studio and take the GS out…decisions decisions

 

[AnotherScott]

4 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

Thanks Mike, was just curious what there was at decent price/quality as just a controller. When we get into the realms of CP/YC73 I might as well take the GS out.

Looks like the SL73 and Kurz MK88 at the moment, but the latter is just too heavy. 

You can also look at the Kurzweil SP1 and Casio PX-360, even though they have sounds.

[CEB]

Hard to find boards with adequate pedal I/O to be considered a real control today, regardless of weight.  

[Doerfler]

I recently purchased a Studiologic SL 73 to replace a Yamaha CP 73 that got sold. No complaints so far, price is right and at 25 pounds is manageable.

 

USB and 5 pin MIDI work side by side. Found this out as one of my stand alone VST's hogged the USB port, when I opened Kontakt, I couldn't select the SL73 via USB.

 

Quickly added my Midisport 2 x 2 to the USB hub connected to my laptop and all was well. 

[ProfD]

18 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

I even considered getting the Korg D1 as it has the RH3 keybed even if the sounds aren’t quite as good, but it would just be used as a controller.

For gigging musicians, I would recommend a DP (digital piano) as a MIDI controller instead of a dedicated MIDI KB controller.

 

Regardless of whether or not the DP sounds are used on a regular basis, they exist in a pinch. 

 

If the main sound source flakes out for any reason, a DP can get through the gig.

 

A DP MIDI'd to another KB sound source also provides excellent split/layer possibilities too. 😎

[Paul Woodward]

Thanks for all the input guys. Considering this will just be 'in a bag' until rehearsals/gigs and I want to keep the zize/weight down, I am gravitating towards the Studiologic SL73. I can get one brand new for £329 delivered next day.

Anyone able to recommend this board, or who would advise against it, from personal experience?

I just want a board with a similar response to the RH3 which I really like, no fancy features or built in sounds. I will be taking a Yamaha YC61 and iPad out with this and I think it can connect to both simultaneously if need be as well as offering that magnetic tray down the line if I want to put more gear on it (laptop, little mixer etc.) In this case YC will be providing nearly all the sounds and acting as a second board.

Don't really want the bulk of a P121 or other piano and the Kurzweil KM88 is just too damn heavy at 18.5kg!!

I am also hoping this combo will not stretch the limits of a stand like this, which is under 3kg....surely one extra Kg on a set of arms (with less that 20kg in total) would not compromise it....

 

[Jose EB5AGV]

I own an SL88 Studio... not my favourite keybed, but very flexible board (I mean regarding zones and such)

 

Jose

[Doerfler]

56 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

Thanks for all the input guys.

Anyone able to recommend this board, or who would advise against it, from personal experience?

 

 

 

I purchased one a little less than a month ago, so far so good.  Price is certainly right, action is fine (for me).  I use it mostly for EP's, occasional synth pads, rarely AP, never organ or clavinet.

Power switch seems fragile, I am careful with it. Editor software is decent, haven't but scratched the surface with it.  Feels like a good value overall

[Paul Woodward]

2 minutes ago, Doerfler said:

I purchased one a little less than a month ago, so far so good.  Price is certainly right, action is fine (for me).  I use it mostly for EP's, occasional synth pads, rarely AP, never organ or clavinet.

Power switch seems fragile, I am careful with it. Editor software is decent, haven't but scratched the surface with it.  Feels like a good value overall

Thanks for that, I realise it won't be as good as the RH3 keybed, but I have the Grandstage for that (and sounds if necessary). Like the idea that I could swap them out as needed so I will always have a 73 note controllers in the studio 🙂

[CyberGene]

I owned the SL73 for a while and hated its keyboard action, so I was happy when I sold it. You should definitely first try it yourself.

 

BTW, I recently purchased the Numa X Piano 73 and it's a great keyboard. I used to own a YC61 in the past, as well as YC73 and CP88. I am perfectly OK with the Numa replacing the Yamaha boards although admittedly they are the more polished products. However in many respects the Numa is better, especially with a top-notch external MIDI zone support that is better and easier to use than the Yamaha one. 

[stoken6]

46 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

I owned the SL73 for a while and hated its keyboard action

I hated its keyboard action so didn't buy one. Shame because on paper the spec was perfect. Tastes vary - you may be one of those who's perfectly happy with it.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Al Coda]

19 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

I hated its keyboard action so didn't buy one. Shame because on paper the spec was perfect.

 

I wish, the SL73 gets the Numa X 73´s  keyboard action in future.

 

 

A.C.

[Paul Woodward]

1 hour ago, CyberGene said:

I owned the SL73 for a while and hated its keyboard action, so I was happy when I sold it. You should definitely first try it yourself.

 

BTW, I recently purchased the Numa X Piano 73 and it's a great keyboard. I used to own a YC61 in the past, as well as YC73 and CP88. I am perfectly OK with the Numa replacing the Yamaha boards although admittedly they are the more polished products. However in many respects the Numa is better, especially with a top-notch external MIDI zone support that is better and easier to use than the Yamaha one. 

This is the problem, nowhere near me (or several hours drive away) has one. Music shops in Yorkshire (and especially for keyboards) seem non-existent. If Korg made a 73 key RH3 controller it would be great. The D1 has so many reviews saying they arrived damaged and I really want 73 note anyway. Very limited in that sense other than buying a Korg SV-1/2 and they are much more expensive for my needs 😞

[The_Star_Guy]

3 hours ago, CyberGene said:

I owned the SL73 for a while and hated its keyboard action, so I was happy when I sold it. You should definitely first try it yourself.

 

BTW, I recently purchased the Numa X Piano 73 and it's a great keyboard. I used to own a YC61 in the past, as well as YC73 and CP88. I am perfectly OK with the Numa replacing the Yamaha boards although admittedly they are the more polished products. However in many respects the Numa is better, especially with a top-notch external MIDI zone support that is better and easier to use than the Yamaha one. 

I concur with this.   I currently still have both the Numa X Piano 73 and the YC73, and in my opinion the Fatar TP110 action beats the Yamaha BH, although they are in the same ballpark, at least.

[Stokely]

Forte 7 is a perfect form factor IMO.  Very compact (fits in a 61 key case), and while not light the compactness makes it easy to handle.   Sounds great too and I personally love the action (tp-40 I believe?)

I wish I got on with the Kurzweil OS.   I just struggle with mine and I'm going to be basically changing it out for a Nord Stage 3, bought used from a friend.  Same weight but the 88 keys are overkill for me (at live gigs OR at home) and it's going to make things a bit tighter for me.  The Forte 7 fits under my studio desk for example, an 88 keyboard will not.   Like the guys in Jaws needing a bigger boat, I'll need a bigger desk I guess!

[Paul Woodward]

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

Forte 7 is a perfect form factor IMO.  Very compact (fits in a 61 key case), and while not light the compactness makes it easy to handle.   Sounds great too and I personally love the action (tp-40 I believe?)

I wish I got on with the Kurzweil OS.   I just struggle with mine and I'm going to be basically changing it out for a Nord Stage 3, bought used from a friend.  Same weight but the 88 keys are overkill for me (at live gigs OR at home) and it's going to make things a bit tighter for me.  The Forte 7 fits under my studio desk for example, an 88 keyboard will not.   Like the guys in Jaws needing a bigger boat, I'll need a bigger desk I guess!

The Forte 7 is well out of my budget, especially for a controller but thanks for the recommendation 🙂

[Stokely]

Gotcha.  There are some great used deals but when the thing starts at 4 grand that only takes you so far!

Of the lower-priced options I've looked at--which isn't that many--I was considering the Kawai es 110 (or whatever the newest one is, it's been a while).  No idea about controller capabilities, I mainly need usb out to my interface (I think it may have midi as well).  It's 88 unfortunately but I liked the action on it.  The piano and speakers were more of a convenience for quick practicing.

[drawback]

I had an SL88 and liked everything about it but the TP100 action. Some find it great for Rhodes, but as I know you like RH3 as much as I do, I’d advise against it. If I were in the market for a weighted 73 controller I’d think seriously about just going for it and spending the extra money on the NumaX. Best of all worlds, I think. 

[Paul Woodward]

2 hours ago, drawback said:

I had an SL88 and liked everything about it but the TP100 action. Some find it great for Rhodes, but as I know you like RH3 as much as I do, I’d advise against it. If I were in the market for a weighted 73 controller I’d think seriously about just going for it and spending the extra money on the NumaX. Best of all worlds, I think. 

Good to hear from someone who likes the RH3 and can compare the SL. Shame as it’s perfect on paper (size, weight, connections, appearance and price). I really can’t find anything near it for price and I’m wondering if I can live with it knowing that I have the GS73 there should I need better board/sounds for any reason (studio, quality gigs etc).

While I would love something better, I just can’t justify the extra cost as I’m not making any money from music currently and it will sit in a gig bag for weeks at a time. To be honest, a VR09 played smoother (and the piano cut through better) at the last rehearsal than the YC and I’m not getting to play any solo/expressive stuff either, so sometimes pro gear isn’t always appreciated.

If the SL73 keybed plays acoustic and electric piano better than the YC keybed then it might work out for the few hours it will be played. I will practice on the RH3 board at home.

To clarify, is the SL keybed just not good in general or when compared to pro pianos?

[drawback]

The SL action plays similarly to a real Rhodes (at least the ones I’ve played ) that is, bouncy and sloppy. It’s also on the heavy side but that could be because it’s sluggish. That said, I think it - and almost anything - would be better for pianos than the YC61. 
 

Do you have a way to buy with a return policy? 

[Ibarch]

8 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

This is the problem, nowhere near me (or several hours drive away) has one. Music shops in Yorkshire (and especially for keyboards) seem non-existent. 😞

 

Have you checked out PMT in Leeds? They have a good number of MIDI controllers and keyboards, in addition to digital pianos. You can check stock on their website, PMTonline. 

 

If you are looking at a Kawai (and I would recommended you do), The PianoMan in Leeds is the place. has the current ES range, plus all the digital pianos, hybrids and a room full of grand pianos too. 

[ElmerJFudd]

The TP100 is notoriously unpopular with piano players when given the choice out of all the compact weighted key actions. You can of course play it.  It’s preferable to a synth or organ-like action.  I would choose it over, say… Casio Privia Sxxxx.  On the Crumar Seven it does feel Rhodes like - but I did not enjoy playing “acoustic piano” on the Seven at all regardless of Max Tempia’s wonderful demonstrations.  

[Paul Woodward]

1 hour ago, drawback said:

The SL action plays similarly to a real Rhodes (at least the ones I’ve played ) that is, bouncy and sloppy. It’s also on the heavy side but that could be because it’s sluggish. That said, I think it - and almost anything - would be better for pianos than the YC61. 
 

Do you have a way to buy with a return policy? 

I can get if from Scan who have a 14 day return policy, but not sure if that includes actually opening and trying it out.

1 hour ago, Ibarch said:

 

Have you checked out PMT in Leeds? They have a good number of MIDI controllers and keyboards, in addition to digital pianos. You can check stock on their website, PMTonline. 

 

If you are looking at a Kawai (and I would recommended you do), The PianoMan in Leeds is the place. has the current ES range, plus all the digital pianos, hybrids and a room full of grand pianos too. 

Yeah, checked PMT nothing there really and no SL boards. Piano man has nothing but a Nord 73 at £2000.