KeyboardEric Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 Hello! I played a few gigs recently using all backing tracks (via 1 stereo out) and playing 1-2 keyboard synths for leads/pads/some bass lines/etc... overall the audience feedback was decent but I'm thinking of ways I might be able to improve the live mix. One suggestion I got was to separate the drum backing tracks fom the bass. Right now I have all the backing tracks mixed together and I just sort of fill in the blanks with what I can when I'm performing. I can't afford my own sound person so I'm at the mercy of the house engineer which can be hit or miss, and many times clubs won't allow you to bring your own engineer. I feel like it's time to do some more reserach on how to optimize this approach to playing live since it looks like I might keep pursuing this idea and even expand on it. It's a DIY project so not a huge budget. I thought maybe I could try separating out some of the tracks but not sure how complex this would be to figure out live and with a house engineer on the fly. I don't want to be a high maintanance artist but maybe there is some step I can take that would make sense. willing to consider any advice, hot tips, or read up on any useful links! thank you! Quote dreamcommander.bandcamp.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 You can submix at your station, and then send the house a final mix. It's how I used to do it, but most of the time there was no house system. So I was just mixing to me. It's a help to have the bass isolated. Different mains and sub systems respond differently to it. At the height of my insanity, I actually ran the bass through it's own dedicated bass amp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 There are benefits to leaving your backing tracks (whatever is included in them - drums, bass, other timbres) in the software you made them with so that you have control to mix them for the room you are playing. If you bounce them down to a stereo file you lose track faders, panning, eq and compression for the instruments not just the whole recording. You can put your whole set list in an Ableton, Logic, Reaper file and run your show off of a laptop. Or bounce down your stems and load them in backing track player software on an iPad or something. Example: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/multitracker/id1107736294 There are also many backing track apps that generate the tracks for you based on the chord changes, style and tempo. They pretty much all give you controls over what to play and what to mute, volume level on a track basis, etc. Some also project lyrics, or present your chord charts, or sheet music to match where you are in the tune, Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludo Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Sorry to interrupt you guys conversation, where can i buy high quality backing tracks (bas + drums is enough)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 1 hour ago, ludo said: Sorry to interrupt you guys conversation, where can i buy high quality backing tracks (bas + drums is enough)? https://www.backingtracks.pro Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludo Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Thank you ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miden Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 3 hours ago, ludo said: Sorry to interrupt you guys conversation, where can i buy high quality backing tracks (bas + drums is enough)? And https://www.karaoke-version.com/ and they are much cheaper with a far larger catalogue! Quote There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence... Time is the final arbiter for all things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miden Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 My tips for playing with trax - is keep them as empty as possible. IE, play as much live as you can and (if solo) do not try to emulate 100% the "record". I tried the whole full separation thing, even when playing live bass and a drum machine all with separate feeds and running the show in stereo with panning and all....in the end it simply is not worth the effort or cost. Just create well balanced trax and you'll be fine! 1 Quote There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence... Time is the final arbiter for all things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludo Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Very good tip. Thank you miden ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludo Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 But let's go back on KeyboardEric's topic now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardEric Posted March 12, 2023 Author Share Posted March 12, 2023 On 3/8/2023 at 1:04 PM, Bill H. said: You can submix at your station, and then send the house a final mix. It's how I used to do it, but most of the time there was no house system. So I was just mixing to me. It's a help to have the bass isolated. Different mains and sub systems respond differently to it. At the height of my insanity, I actually ran the bass through it's own dedicated bass amp. I think this might be the way. Thanks for your advice! 1 Quote dreamcommander.bandcamp.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardEric Posted March 12, 2023 Author Share Posted March 12, 2023 On 3/8/2023 at 1:19 PM, ElmerJFudd said: There are benefits to leaving your backing tracks (whatever is included in them - drums, bass, other timbres) in the software you made them with so that you have control to mix them for the room you are playing. If you bounce them down to a stereo file you lose track faders, panning, eq and compression for the instruments not just the whole recording. You can put your whole set list in an Ableton, Logic, Reaper file and run your show off of a laptop. Or bounce down your stems and load them in backing track player software on an iPad or something. Example: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/multitracker/id1107736294 There are also many backing track apps that generate the tracks for you based on the chord changes, style and tempo. They pretty much all give you controls over what to play and what to mute, volume level on a track basis, etc. Some also project lyrics, or present your chord charts, or sheet music to match where you are in the tune, This is all VERY interesting. I'm not sure if some of it applies to my music since it is all pre-recorded and I'm not really "jamming" or improvising live much at all (right now). I will defeinitely check into it some more. and take a look at the link you posted. I've never used a DAW on stage live before so the idea is a little scary (if it were to crash in the middle) but I've seen other people do it and I can see why it works for some. Thanks for the input and chiming in. Cheers!! Quote dreamcommander.bandcamp.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardEric Posted March 12, 2023 Author Share Posted March 12, 2023 On 3/9/2023 at 6:17 AM, miden said: My tips for playing with trax - is keep them as empty as possible. IE, play as much live as you can and (if solo) do not try to emulate 100% the "record". I tried the whole full separation thing, even when playing live bass and a drum machine all with separate feeds and running the show in stereo with panning and all....in the end it simply is not worth the effort or cost. Just create well balanced trax and you'll be fine! For sure, I see what you're saying. The tracks I have now actually do the job adequately but I'm wondering if there is a way to make it sound even better/fuller. Some of the feedback I received was that the house mix wasn't loud enough so I'm wondering if the lack of bass separation is part of the reason for that... lots to unpack still! Thanks for the tips! Quote dreamcommander.bandcamp.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 This might not help, but on my laptop rig using Plogue Bidule as my hosting software, I had multi-channel .WAVs of the tunes I wanted to play along with. Three channels in all - usually everything but bass in stereo, and bass on a separate mono track. Bidule has a multi-channel .WAV player that can load these files. I put gain controls on the outputs and assigned them to knobs on my Roland controller, allowing me to vary the level of the bass with the main track from my keyboard. I could add more tracks if I wanted or needed, but three were enough. Everything went out as a single stereo feed from the headphone jack to my PPAs. If you're already bringing a laptop to gigs to play tracks, then depending on your platform and available software you could be good to go for this method. I used my laptop for all my keyboard sounds as well, which it sounds like you're not doing. Not sure if Mainstage or the other hosts can do this, but if Bidule can, I imagine the others can too. There's always a plain old DAW for playing multi-channel tracks of course, and I presume you can use midi CCs to start, stop, advance to the next song, control faders etc., unless you don't mind interacting with the computer during a gig (mine was behind me, I didn't need to look at or touch it, so midi control was a must). On 3/8/2023 at 3:48 PM, KeyboardEric said: I can't afford my own sound person so I'm at the mercy of the house engineer which can be hit or miss, and many times clubs won't allow you to bring your own engineer. The method I described, with tracks' levels assigned to midi controllers, means you control the mix of your backing tracks, not the FOH person; they only get a stereo feed. Of course they can still screw you over on your overall level, but they won't be able to adjust the different tracks' levels individually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardEric Posted March 15, 2023 Author Share Posted March 15, 2023 On 3/13/2023 at 8:21 PM, Reezekeys said: This might not help, but on my laptop rig using Plogue Bidule as my hosting software, I had multi-channel .WAVs of the tunes I wanted to play along with. Three channels in all - usually everything but bass in stereo, and bass on a separate mono track. Bidule has a multi-channel .WAV player that can load these files. I put gain controls on the outputs and assigned them to knobs on my Roland controller, allowing me to vary the level of the bass with the main track from my keyboard. I could add more tracks if I wanted or needed, but three were enough. Everything went out as a single stereo feed from the headphone jack to my PPAs. If you're already bringing a laptop to gigs to play tracks, then depending on your platform and available software you could be good to go for this method. I used my laptop for all my keyboard sounds as well, which it sounds like you're not doing. Not sure if Mainstage or the other hosts can do this, but if Bidule can, I imagine the others can too. There's always a plain old DAW for playing multi-channel tracks of course, and I presume you can use midi CCs to start, stop, advance to the next song, control faders etc., unless you don't mind interacting with the computer during a gig (mine was behind me, I didn't need to look at or touch it, so midi control was a must). The method I described, with tracks' levels assigned to midi controllers, means you control the mix of your backing tracks, not the FOH person; they only get a stereo feed. Of course they can still screw you over on your overall level, but they won't be able to adjust the different tracks' levels individually. I find this super interesting and will add your suggestions to the research file! Thanks so much for adding your own experience and input on the topic. 👍 Quote dreamcommander.bandcamp.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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