After a gigging keyboard for a solo act that has a built-in looper?

[summerinstereo]

Hi guys,

 

I'm new to the forum and can't see any introductions section - so I'll do that here before asking for assistance.

 

I'm from the Fraser Coast in QLD, Australia.

Been into music my whole life, started on keys, moved to guitar and vocals and now I'm gigging regularly around my area solo acoustic at the moment (more of a singer than a guitarist/keyboardist). I write synthwavey stuff + acoustic singer/songwriter styled stuff.

 

Gigging solo acoustic is a bit boring - it's okay for me, and people enjoy it - but I want to add more value to the venues I play at, and I think it would be nice for the patrons if the entertainment that's there for 4 hours a night, isn't just sticking on the same instrument, or same sound, for the whole time. I find people that do what I do incredibly boring to listen to after about 10 minutes and I do see the hypocrisy here as a solo acoustic act myself right now. 

 

It's just time that I spice things up and bring more to my gigs, it will give people a better time, there won't be any feelings of the music getting stale or anything like that..

 

So I want to do a one-man-band thing, but I'm not super into arranger keyboards.

 

Right now, I have a Casio CDP-130 that isn't super fit for the job, it's very basic, doesn't offer any looping capabilities, doesn't have many sounds, doesn't have drums or synth sounds - no ways to edit or customise the sounds.. it's basically a practice keyboard for home use, IMO. Unless you want to gig as a straight up "pianist". I don't have any interest in being a "pianist" in the classical sense, but I would love to play some gigs as a keyboard/piano playing singer/songwriter (watered down covers of songs, with the keyboard as just accompaniment for the vocals, simple chords etc).

 

The Casio could do that. But I need the instrument I use to do that and more, which the Casio can't cover.

 

The "more" I want to do is where things get hectic enough that I've decided to join a forum and ask questions like this (I have created a similar post on the r/keys subreddit as well).

 

The "more" that I think I'll need/want:

 

- more than 1 great piano sound for different styles (ambient, brighter ones, softer ones, etc).

- a few great electric piano sounds for some songs.

- bass (synth bass, picked bass, fingerstyle bass, slap bass etc).

- synth sounds (leads, plucks, pads, etc).

- drums (a few different kits to choose from).

- a looper (so I can build songs on the fly - but please school me on arranger keyboards that might be better for this!!).

- little to no menu diving, needs to be super practical and easy to work with live on stage, for 4 hours at a time, 2-4x per week).

- work great as a MIDI controller, offering plenty of things I can use for home studio stuff IE faders for parameter adjusting etc.

- ability to filter sweep, adjust resonance, attack, decay, sustain etc.

- ability to connect a mic would be incredibly useful, especially so if the mic can go into the looper, but any connectivity here would be awesome, extras like vocoders etc would be icing on the cake - ability to adjust mic volume on the keyboard would be huge for me.

 

I know I'm asking for a lot here, but I know there'll be some jack-of-all-trades instrument that can cover most or all of these bases.

 

To help paint the picture, I'll write out a few scenarios I would be in, where I want this instrument to "do it all", self-contained.

 

- dinnertime gigs where I'm just background music, probably not building songs with beats - chilled out, piano/e-piano songs with me singing over them.

 

- Friday/Saturday night gigs where I'm having to keep things upbeat and rock-ish, giving me ways to provide a "full band" experience - whether this is by looping, or auto-accompaniment, I'm not super bothered by, but I think a looper that I can use on the spot would be better for me - again, please school me on this, if there's a killer arranger keyboard out there that fits what I'm doing, please let me know!).

 

- writing songs, self-contained, not connected to a PC or anything, let me play with loops and create parts etc, and save them in some way so I can get them to the PC.

 

- for recording songs with at home, using a DAW - either with its own sounds, or VSTs, plenty of interactivity with whatever DAW (I've got a couple).

 

The music I play itself might help you out - I love '80s pop/rock, and the venues I play like that as well as Aussie pub-rock and some country - I don't play much country because I don't like it, but if I'm buying a whole new instrument to add value to venues I play, then I might as well add some country in).

 

My gigging system is an Evolve EV50M.

 

I currently own a BOSS RC-600 as a looper, that could work with a cheap enough keyboard that can do things above that don't include any of the looping parts - for more expensive units, I would have to sell the RC-600 and I'd be more than happy to do so, if the looping can be done in the keyboard.

 

I've mentioned it a few times but any schooling on arranger keyboards would be great, because some options that stand out to me:

Roland FP-E50 - an arranger keyboard, with no way to loop. But vocals can go into it. If there IS a way to loop maybe this is the answer.

Roland Juno DS - I've seen people use this as a straight up looper, the sounds seem like a good fit for what I'll be doing, not sure if it can take a mic or loop vocals.

Yamaha MX61/88 - Seems like a contender to the Juno DS, not sure if it can be used as a looper though.

Yamaha PSR EW425 - The latest arranger keyboard from Yamaha, doesn't loop (does it?), but I am interested in taking the arranger keyboard approach, if the sounds are convincing enough and passable as a "real band".

 

Thanks to anyone that read this, big thanks to anyone that replies as well.

I'll respond to all comments so you don't feel like you've wasted your time reading this wall of text.

 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

Welcome to the forum Cobber. 

 

Im chasing a Korg Kross 2 61 key as a second tier keyboard for its light weight and good zoning attributes but apparantly has a lousy keybed but that doesn't matter for me as I'll midi it to either my Numa Cocal  2x or my Casio privia PX330 for playing any thing deeo only using the korg for secondary keyboard playing 

 

I saw a fellow busking at a local market (on Guitar) with looping on a Korg Kross and was impressed but i am not chasing it for looping so dont know anything about korgs looping function. I Just googled and found a video of someone demoing that feature attained through a different function on the Kross. (I havent had a look at video yet so dont know how viable looping is)

 

Might be worth a google if you want lightweight but powerful enough cheap cost and light weight keyboard and I wanted you to feel welcome here so replied.

[CyberGene]

On the Yamaha YC61/73/88 there’s a looper although a rather rudimentary one compared to what are probably better implementations on arranger/workstations. However it fulfills some of your other needs for being very intuitive to use (compared to these other keyboards) and having great pianos, e-pianos, organs and other sounds. But it has no drums and no mic in, nor a vocoder. 

[Sean M. H.]

To the OP....price range?

[summerinstereo]

4 hours ago, AUSSIEKEYS said:

Welcome to the forum Cobber. 

 

Im chasing a Korg Kross 2 61 key as a second tier keyboard for its light weight and good zoning attributes but apparantly has a lousy keybed but that doesn't matter for me as I'll midi it to either my Numa Cocal  2x or my Casio privia PX330 for playing any thing deeo only using the korg for secondary keyboard playing 

 

I saw a fellow busking at a local market (on Guitar) with looping on a Korg Kross and was impressed but i am not chasing it for looping so dont know anything about korgs looping function. I Just googled and found a video of someone demoing that feature attained through a different function on the Kross. (I havent had a look at video yet so dont know how viable looping is)

 

Might be worth a google if you want lightweight but powerful enough cheap cost and light weight keyboard and I wanted you to feel welcome here so replied.

 

I've heard great things about the Korg Kross 2 - I'll have to look into them, for no real reason I've only really been looking into Roland and Yamaha's keyboards.

Not sure why. I didn't even know the Korg Kross 2 could loop, thanks for the recommendation.

 

3 hours ago, CyberGene said:

On the Yamaha YC61/73/88 there’s a looper although a rather rudimentary one compared to what are probably better implementations on arranger/workstations. However it fulfills some of your other needs for being very intuitive to use (compared to these other keyboards) and having great pianos, e-pianos, organs and other sounds. But it has no drums and no mic in, nor a vocoder. 

 

I didn't realise the YC series had a looper at all - are you refering to the "Looper Delay"?

 

The YC series, and other stage pianos (Nord Stage, Roland RD etc) are like 98% of what I'm after - I love the layouts of "stage keyboards" and it might even benefit me to just pony up and get one + consider a small looper that I can rest on the keyboard itself and operate with my hands.

 

For drums - an alternative is to just use backing tracks for certain gigs. It's not really the direction I wanted to take, but I *love* the stage keyboard ease of use.. so working around the limitations of one, is something I'm considering.

 

 

 

44 minutes ago, Sean M. H. said:

To the OP....price range?

 

I deliberately omitted the price range just in case there's more expensive suggestions that I might find used - I didn't want the price to limit the ideas that people had, though it obviously limits what I can actually buy.

 

My price range would only be around $1000~. Happy to add a little more if necessary.

I think it's probably the "right" price range for an instrument along the lines of what I'm after, though - the Roland Juno DS and Yamaha MX series have offerings within that price point and they tick a lot of boxes (maybe not *every* box).

[CEB]

It above the price point but the Roland FA 06.  You can do 16 tracks of live looping if you are into that sort of thing.  I think I bought my for around 1200 on preorder when the were introduced. 
 

But I don’t know… the keybed sucks.  Your list is long for 1k or less. My gut response is there isn’t anything of quality for 1 grand. Post COVID even cases practically cost a grand now. 

[summerinstereo]

55 minutes ago, CEB said:

It above the price point but the Roland FA 06.  You can do 16 tracks of live looping if you are into that sort of thing.  I think I bought my for around 1200 on preorder when the were introduced. 
 

But I don’t know… the keybed sucks.  Your list is long for 1k or less. My gut response is there isn’t anything of quality for 1 grand. Post COVID even cases practically cost a grand now. 

 

I would go to $1500 for the right thing, happy to wait a bit and spend a little more money for something that's 1000% worth the extra cash as a best-fit for my situation.

Also happy to buy used, as well.

[summerinstereo]

Has anyone here got experience with the Roland FP-E50?

 

It's a stage piano with some arranger keyboard features, and offers some SuperNATURAL sounds + ZENcore tech (I don't actually know wth this is fwiw).

 

It looks like besides the looper, it might fit the bill? It's also within the price range.

 

Really wish there was more reviews for it on YouTube. Doesn't appear to be have been super popular on release?

 

[Montunoman 2]

I think you said you don’t like arranger keyboards, but if you change your mind the Yamaha SX/ Genos series, Korg PA and some Roland’s have a looping function. You can edit and make your own styles on all these too, I think it’s a great option for OMB. Perhaps it could work for you too? 

[AnotherScott]

If you're willing to off-load some of your tasks to an attached iPad (or even iPhone, if that happens to be what you have), that might open up some keyboard options that would otherwise fall short in some important way.

 

Anyway, one board not mentioned so far that I think might come close (possibly closest) to what you're after, and almost within your $1500 target max, is the Fantom-06.

[Philip Clark]

The VR-09/730 has a looper section, but I've found it to be clunky to use.

 

If looping is a must have, I'd recommend getting a stand-alone unit. I have a RC-505 and I love it.

[Paul Woodward]

One thing to consider with the YC61 etc. is they can integrate an iPad with just a single cable for midi and audio. While dedicated keyboards will often be limited in what their software can do (even updates will be limited to what they can add), an iPad can load up a wide range of sound engines, loopers, ‘drumboxes’, sequencers etc. so you could access just about any sound you need.

[timwat]

2 hours ago, Philip Clark said:

If looping is a must have, I'd recommend getting a stand-alone unit. I have a RC-505 and I love it.

I don't loop, but this totally makes practical sense to me.

 

Get the right tool for each job, rather than trying to double-duty a keyboard that wasn't really designed for your intended purpose. Gives you a lot of flexibility to add or subtract instruments / elements / sound sources as you experiment as well.

[Docbop]

External loopers have so many options for multi-loop and and more. 

 

 

[DaveMcM]

1 hour ago, Docbop said:

External loopers have so many options for multi-loop and and more. 

 

 

She really needs to limit her caffeine intake.  But wow!

[summerinstereo]

11 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

If you're willing to off-load some of your tasks to an attached iPad (or even iPhone, if that happens to be what you have), that might open up some keyboard options that would otherwise fall short in some important way.

 

Anyway, one board not mentioned so far that I think might come close (possibly closest) to what you're after, and almost within your $1500 target max, is the Fantom-06.

 

I don't have an iPad or iPhone - I've got an Android phone and tablet. Though, I should still remain open to this because I fully intend on getting an iPad in the future for other purposes - it's already something I'll need to sort out by the end of the year.

 

I could use my phone for similar things as is, on Android, I would imagine - just covering other bases, for example a stage keyboard can have "drums" via MIDI, if they're not already part of it.

 

I'll check out the Fantom-06 - I'm happy to wait a while longer and save towards the "right" keyboard.

Whatever I go with, I fully intend on it being basically the centrepiece of my live gigs + I hope to be with it for many years to come.

If there's some option that's out of my price range, but is the right one and will last a long time - then that'll be the way to go.

 

 

8 hours ago, Philip Clark said:

The VR-09/730 has a looper section, but I've found it to be clunky to use.

 

If looping is a must have, I'd recommend getting a stand-alone unit. I have a RC-505 and I love it.

 

I'll check out the VR series.

 

I've already got a BOSS RC-600, but I will most likely sell it towards the keyboard - a simple hand-operated looper that can go on the keyboard would be a better choice for where I want to go. Also the RC-600 has been a bit of a nightmare. The BOSS RC-202 looks to be more than enough, for my purposes.

 

I'll definitely keep the idea of a separate looper in mind, because it lets me open up the keyboard options significantly, and is most likely easier to work with live anyway.

 

6 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

One thing to consider with the YC61 etc. is they can integrate an iPad with just a single cable for midi and audio. While dedicated keyboards will often be limited in what their software can do (even updates will be limited to what they can add), an iPad can load up a wide range of sound engines, loopers, ‘drumboxes’, sequencers etc. so you could access just about any sound you need.

 

Is there anything special about the YC series that allows for MIDI and audio integration via a single cable? Does that involve some sort of tech I should be aware of when scouting keyboards?

 

Asking because now I'm wondering if there'd be any annoying issues needing to switch to/from MIDI in a live situation that I should know about before going to far into this. I vastly prefer a super simple setup.

 

Right now, I'm gigging with as a solo acoustic act that plugs straight into the PA.

I have a BOSS RC-600 but it's caused me trouble at my last 2 gigs so I've stopped using it live - I only used it for 5 gigs anyway, 2/5 gigs having issues is way too high imo.. prior to this.. about 18 months of just gigging acoustic and mic straight into PA.

 

No pedals, no FX, nothing - raw as heck, people like it + the simplicity is so good.

 

I'd like to keep things as close to that as I can, but with more options for providing a big one-man-band sound.

 

This is where I think the Roland FP-E50 might creep in a bit - it's a simple to use, great sounding keyboard with a stripped back interface, that offers a plethora of accompaniment options. So it would be a plug and play way of covering any sort of gig, really - and then there's also the option of adding an iPad down the track, and/or a separate looper etc.. bit of a modular system approach.

 

I'm thinking with that in mind - maybe saving for a YC (if they're the "right" keyboard for me, of course), and then working on covering the bases it doesn't cover is an option after all..

 

I mean, do *I* really need to be using built-in accompaniment? Why not just use backing tracks, at that point?

 

That makes the stage keyboards more appealing, because of the simplicity they provide - they're basically made to do a significant portion of what I want to do, maybe I should be looking at them more seriously and building from there, rather than trying to get everything I want in one single unit..

 

I don't know, rambling/sharing thoughts.. lol

 

6 hours ago, timwat said:

I don't loop, but this totally makes practical sense to me.

 

Get the right tool for each job, rather than trying to double-duty a keyboard that wasn't really designed for your intended purpose. Gives you a lot of flexibility to add or subtract instruments / elements / sound sources as you experiment as well.

 

Yeah, it does - the modular approach.

 

This approach would dictate - at least for me - that the keyboard be a stage keyboard, then.

 

Because they're the most stripped back and simplistic type of keyboard, that can cover most of what I want to do, well.

 

Extras like loops, or adding drums and other accompaniment, could be viewed as things that get added.

Similar to how I don't always bring my lights to gigs, or a foldback.. because I use an EV50M.. I take what's needed for the gig.

 

With that in mind, I wouldn't bring loops and drums and everything to an intimate dinnertime gig, or a cafe gig.

I would take them to Fri/Sat night pub gigs, where keeping things fresh and upbeat/rock/danceable is top priority.

 

I do like this mentality, I think it's the right way to approach finding the right keyboard for me and my situation.

 

It opens me up to simply focusing on finding a keyboard that has the basic sounds I want, and then go from there.

 

Which would be stage keyboards - pianos, electric piano and synths would be my bread and butter (not into organs, gotta say).

 

[AnotherScott]

10 hours ago, summerinstereo said:

Is there anything special about the YC series that allows for MIDI and audio integration via a single cable? Does that involve some sort of tech I should be aware of when scouting keyboards?

 

Yes, there is something special... numerous Yamahas have a built-in audio interface that allows for single USB connection between the keyboard and an iPad for transferring both MIDI and audio. It's a pretty rare feature (I believe Dexibell has it, Korg has it in some models, Kurzweil has it in one model, Roland/Nord/Casio/Kawai don't have it at all, though Roland has an interface in some models that works with PCs and Macs, just not iOS devices). But in many cases, it's only saving you one wire connection, since many keyboards that don't have this feature still have audio line inputs for the audio part of it, so you can use that. Though that gets a little more complicated if you choose an iPad that doesn't have a headphone output.

[Montunoman 2]

11 hours ago, summerinstereo said:

 

I'd like to keep things as close to that as I can, but with more options for providing a big one-man-band sound.

 

This is where I think the Roland FP-E50 might creep in a bit - it's a simple 

 

I mean, do *I* really need to be using built-in accompaniment? Why not just use backing tracks, at that point?

 

 

 

I’m sure I’m in the minority here, but absolutely love the flexibility an arranger keyboard gives me. Much more so than a prerecorded backing track. 

[CEB]

Simple workflow demo:

 

Again, just an option… not a recommendation.  I’ve played 700-800 gigs with a FA06.  But if I had not of preordered it blind I probably wouldn’t have bought it. At the time the Fantom wasn’t available and with the built in SP404 it was a fairly unique piece of gear that was great for what I needed.  But the action is ass. 

 

 

[Dave Number Four]

On 2/21/2023 at 3:06 AM, CyberGene said:

On the Yamaha YC61/73/88 there’s a looper although a rather rudimentary one compared to what are probably better implementations on arranger/workstations. 

I have a YC, not a looper guy so I didn't spend much time on it, but it seems like the YC looper delay can only loop up to 1.5 seconds?

 

Isn't that kind of useless for a typical looper? Wouldn't you normally want to record 2 or 4 bars and loop that?

[Red Ranger]

1 hour ago, CEB said:

Simple workflow demo:

 

Again, just an option… not a recommendation.  I’ve played 700-800 gigs with a FA06.  But if I had not of preordered it blind I probably wouldn’t have bought it. At the time the Fantom wasn’t available and with the built in SP404 it was a fairly unique piece of gear that was great for what I needed.  But the action is ass. 

 

 

Totally agree on the FA-06 action but just a heads up to the OP in case the FA series ticks enough boxes: the FA-07 has a different action that feels better than the -06 (to me, anyway- obviously it's all subjective)... A root canal probably feels better than the FA-06.   

 

[CyberGene]

23 minutes ago, Dave Number Four said:

I have a YC, not a looper guy so I didn't spend much time on it, but it seems like the YC looper delay can only loop up to 1.5 seconds?

 

Isn't that kind of useless for a typical looper? Wouldn't you normally want to record 2 or 4 bars and loop that?

I had my YC73 for only a while and thought it could record a lot but looking at the manual it's indeed limited to only 1.5 seconds. So, yes, kind of useless.

[Philip Clark]

Another option: