Keyboards with XLR outputs

[Reezekeys]

I know phantom power killed one of my Mackie SRM450s, and I also remember reading a post from a QSC engineer – regarding the original Ks - that the Ks were not protected against phantom power and to not use the XLR pass-through to go to a board that might have phantom turned on. So regardless of what might happen to a keyboard with XLRs, you're already risking damage. I guess the question is whether you're gonna blow just the speaker or both it and the keyboard?! Adam is correct that the pass-through XLRs on PPAs are often just that, a direct connection - if DC is getting to the speaker it's going to the keyboard as well.

 

Again, I see no reason to have XLRs on a keyboard. Any situation I've ever been involved with that demanded a long cable run, where a balanced connection was required, is going to be a situation with a sound company or venue with an installed system that carries DIs.

 

45 minutes ago, Adam Burgess said:

Some will have active circuitry and protection.

 

Wouldn't active circuitry be more likely to be damaged by phantom power (calling the EEs here!)? Transformer-coupling, either with a DI or inline isolator, is a simple way to guarantee no DC gets to either the speaker or keyboard.

[Adam Burgess]

28 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

Wouldn't active circuitry be more likely to be damaged by phantom power (calling the EEs here!)? Transformer-coupling, either with a DI or inline isolator, is a simple way to guarantee no DC gets to either the speaker or keyboard.

Sennheiser radio mic recievers, ARE protected thru circuitry ('cause I asked them). I would guess the other brands at that level are, too (Shure etc.).

I plug my XR18/X32 into other mixers all the time. I always ask, and check the sound guy's routing! If anything would've gone wrong, I reckon it'll have happened by now!

Sure some DC blocking capacitors are involved, so maybe it is actually passive circuitry, rather than active. Transformers aren't involved as you'd find in DIs. Nor opto-coupling like MIDI has.

Powered speakers… I really wouldn't trust any pass-through with phantom WITHOUT MAKING SURE from the manufacturer 🙂 

[Al Quinn]

On 3/23/2023 at 10:39 AM, Reezekeys said:

Again, I see no reason to have XLRs on a keyboard.

 

I have a gig tonight where I'll be connecting the YC73 XLR outs to the XLR inputs on RCF TT08As. Using standard XLR mic cables is convenient and I believe I'm getting more gain with this connection scheme vs. using the 1/4" outputs, which the manual says are unbalanced.

 

I realize this might not be a strong justification for having XLRs on a keyboard but I do believe, in this case, I'm getting some benefit (i.e, as expected the YC73 XLR outs are balanced). I won't be using a mixer and, since it's an electric blues gig where I won't be going through the PA, some extra gain might come in handy. 

[Delaware Dave]

2 minutes ago, Al Quinn said:

 

I have a gig tonight where I'll be connecting the YC73 XLR outs to the XLR inputs on RCF TT08As. Using standard XLR mic cables is convenient and I believe I'm getting more gain with this connection scheme vs. using the 1/4" outputs, which the manual says are unbalanced.

 

I realize this might not be a strong justification for having XLRs on a keyboard but I do believe, in this case, I'm getting some benefit (i.e, as expected the YC73 XLR outs are balanced). I won't be using a mixer and, since it's an electric blues gig where I won't be going through the PA, some extra gain might come in handy. 

i connect to my powered monitor from either my mixer or keyboard using TRS balanced outs (essentially equivalent to going XLR out). noticeable gain difference than if I were to use TS outs (unbalanced).

[Adam Burgess]

18 minutes ago, Al Quinn said:

 

I have a gig tonight where I'll be connecting the YC73 XLR outs to the XLR inputs on RCF TT08As. Using standard XLR mic cables is convenient and I believe I'm getting more gain with this connection scheme vs. using the 1/4" outputs, which the manual says are unbalanced.

 

I realize this might not be a strong justification for having XLRs on a keyboard but I do believe, in this case, I'm getting some benefit (i.e, as expected the YC73 XLR outs are balanced). I won't be using a mixer and, since it's an electric blues gig where I won't be going through the PA, some extra gain might come in handy. 

Speakers at the TT level with have protection, I'm sure. When I was in the UK in a regular band, we had RCF TT for FOH and it was always glorious.

And, I agree, XLRs are so convenient. Everything in the world should be XLR, IEC cables, USB-C. Thank you 🙂

[Reezekeys]

31 minutes ago, Al Quinn said:

I have a gig tonight where I'll be connecting the YC73 XLR outs to the XLR inputs on RCF TT08As. Using standard XLR mic cables is convenient and I believe I'm getting more gain with this connection scheme vs. using the 1/4" outputs, which the manual says are unbalanced.

 

I didn't think about the convenience factor! This is obviously a great way to connect. As you might know from my posts, I connect directly to PPAs as well, using an unbalanced connection. My K8s have combo jacks but my new Altos are XLR-only so I needed to buy a "special" cable from Amazon  - a 1/8" stereo miniplug to two XLRs. Not the kind of cable you'd find at a Best Buy in an emergency, so I also carry adapters for using regular 1/4" cables.

 

My main point was that a balanced connection is not really needed when cabling directly to PPAs or DI boxes. It's interesting to hear that the XLRs send a hotter signal than the unbalanced outs; maybe there's an extra gain stage to get to a +4 line level vs -10 that the unbalanced jacks have? I assumed they were just paralleled. I'm not sure how much of an advantage that is for going to a PPA though, since most if not all have trim controls or switches for accomodating signal levels from mic to -10 to +4. I've always had more than enough gain available for anything I've connected to my speakers.