iPad for mainstage

[voiceofgup]

How powerful of an iPad do I really need to run the mac MainStage app for my keyboard rig for live gigs?

[EricBarker]

It’s not about power, it’s a different ecosystem, they don’t make Mainstage for iOS.

 

iPads are not that far behind MacBook’s in power, 2-3 years tops. Mainstage has been around for over 15 years. My iPad Pro can do cartwheels around the 2011 MacBook that I first had for Mainstage. Apple just hasn’t had any interest in releasing it for iOS.

 

my recommendation, get “Camelot”, it’s actually superior to Mainstage in many ways, and runs on both iOS and Mac.

[TommyRude]

2 minutes ago, EricBarker said:

my recommendation, get “Camelot”, it’s actually superior to Mainstage in many ways, and runs on both iOS and Mac.

Eric.. does Camelot also have a sound library? That's one thing I really like about Mainstage.

[yannis D]

52 minutes ago, TommyRude said:

Eric.. does Camelot also have a sound library? That's one thing I really like about Mainstage.

No, Camelot uses whatever music Vsts you already have in your iPad'. For starters you could just buy something like Korg Module app and built your rig from there. Good thing about ipad apps is that they're relatively cheaper in comparison with VSTs for Mac. Plus there are many freebies (effects and instruments) with great sounds that you can download and run them through Camelot. 

[MPN21]

If a person already has an MBP or any other Apple computer, $29 or so for Mainstage makes sense just to have the sounds, but  I would not buy an Apple computer just to use Mainstage though I'd think that's one way for Apple to make people buy Apple hardware.   Besides, I have seen quite a few Mainstage people switching to Gig Performer as a plugin host and live performance tool.    I have two old MBPs.    I run Gig Performer in Windows machines and MBP.    Windows Audio driver has significantly improved recently, and I can just play plugins without an audio interface.    Gig Performer does very well in both machines.  As for iPad,   I've used iPad for music for many years and last year I bought an M1 12.9.   I noticed that I have not really used my iPad Pro at all other than ForeScore to show sheet music to others that play with me.    I was thinking my iPad Pro has turned into a very expensive sheet music viewer.    I could have done the same with Mobile Sheet Music Pro which runs in Windows and Android devices.    it has quite a few pros over ForeScore, too.    Lots of choices out there.

[EricBarker]

Camelot does not include sounds, but sounds on iPad are magnitudes cheaper than on Mac/PC anyway. For $30 you can get a decent load of sounds. Mainstage’s $30 value on Mac is absolutely incredible. It would still be good on iPad, but not nearly as much so. The largest you’re going to sink in is on Piano. Ravenscroft is $22, probably the most expensive iPad piano, but it would easily cost upward $150 on Mac.

 

All-in-all, iPad is WAY WAY cheaper to get great sounds than Mac, even if the introductory price of $30 Mainstage isn’t there.

[analogika]

In terms of power, a current iPad Air is roughly equivalent to the M1 MacBook Air, and the current iPad Pro runs on an M2. 
 

But, as mentioned, MainStage currently is not available for iPad (yet). 
 

I’m kind of hoping that they’ll have at least a MainStage player at some point, though. 

[Reezekeys]

6 hours ago, voiceofgup said:

How powerful of an iPad do I really need to run the mac MainStage app for my keyboard rig for live gigs?

 

As others have noted Mainstage is Mac-only. I run a live gig rig on my iPad 9th gen - currently the lowest-spec'd iPad Apple sells. The 10th gen iPad is out now, but ditches the headphone jack; I didn't want to deal with that issue. I also didn't have the money to spend on a USB-C iPad – I saw a $60 off deal at Best Buy and grabbed mine for $270.

 

I use AUM to host my plugins. Not gonna bore with details (I've done that on this board too much! 🙂 ), but let's just say:  many channels with multiple virtual instrument plugins/instances, EQs, reverb, playalong tracks, a midi recorder/player, several channels of StreamByter (midi programming language for deeper transforms). I also use Midiflow for routing & preset management. All this on a 128 sample buffer and the CPU meter doesn't get to 30% on my most demanding patch layering several plugins.

 

The point is, imo: any current iPad will probably do you fine. The more powerful one you can afford, the more life you may squeeze out of it. However, I'm very pleasantly surprised with what my lowly 9G iPad can do. Almost forgot - I run ForScore along with all this too. And, this identical setup runs on my iPhone SE (2016 - the original). I'll be using that on my regular touring gig since I don't need to read charts there (a 4-inch screen is not the best for that!).

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, analogika said:

I’m kind of hoping that they’ll have at least a MainStage player at some point, though. 

 

If by "player" you mean you'd like to have its sound library, I think they'd be hesitant to bring the full sound library to iPad, simply by virtue of it being 72 GB. I also wonder if it might task iPadOS's virtual memory capabilities. Even though they've implemented a more Mac-like VM system in the new OS, it still doesn't have the same capabilities as on the Mac.

 

But I haven't used Mainstage. Not counting its own sounds, I'd be curious to hear how people would differentiate its functionality/approach from the existing options on iOS, like AUM, Camelot Pro, Keystage.

[ElmerJFudd]

How far off are we from the MacBook Air becoming convertible and having a touch screen?  macOS 13 Ventura can run iOS apps if the developer supports it.  “iPhone and iPad apps that work on Mac computers with Apple silicon are labeled with Designed for iPhone or Designed for iPad.”

 

I would by such a MacBook Air in a heart beat and use it to run forScore and MainStage. 

[Stokely]

I have Mainstage but haven't ever gigged it.  I have gigged an ipad for sounds, for about a year, using B-3X.  I now have a Hammond SK Pro, which I really like as far as keys/drawbars, but honestly B-3X sounds a bit better!  

I've never used anything like Camelot or AUM, I just ran B-3X standalone.  I did buy Setlist Maker and have started making "songs" that will send program changes to my keyboards.  This will be very handy.

I have enough 3rd party plugins that, if I were to gig with Maintstage, I might not use any sounds that came with it.  That said, I assume that means the plugins from Logic (?), and some of those are very nice (Alchemy, vintage organ).
 

My mind is oddly split.  For at-home studio use, I love software and have no urge whatsoever to hook up hardware and wrestle with program changes or sysex or multitimbral modes or any of that stuff.   For gigs, I have a major prejudice against an ipad or computer....my dinosaur mind wants gear made for the purpose I guess.   I'm considering getting  a tabletop synth for instance (with the additional hassle that implies for live), while I could just use some very nice synths from my ipad.   I mean, what the hell is the real difference?  I reckon in a blind sound test I might not be able to tell a quality difference between (for example) a prophet rev 2 and Zeeon (my best ios poly synth).  In fact, my drummer was oohing and aahing over my Zeeon subdivisions patch, he couldn't believe that sound was coming from an ipad!   Do I need a knob with "cutoff" written on it so badly, vs one that I have to map from my hardware keyboard?  Really wrestling with this lately.

[ElmerJFudd]

MainStage will host the plugins, allow to toggle between setups in your set list, you can map your controllers to desired function, provide the mixer with inserts for EQ, Compression, time and modulation plugins, etc. etc.   Save and recall the state of everything in one file.  It’s definitely worth a try especially if you have it already. 

[stoken6]

10 hours ago, Stokely said:

 I'm considering getting  a tabletop synth for instance (with the additional hassle that implies for live), while I could just use some very nice synths from my ipad.   I mean, what the hell is the real difference?  I reckon in a blind sound test I might not be able to tell a quality difference between (for example) a prophet rev 2 and Zeeon (my best ios poly synth).  In fact, my drummer was oohing and aahing over my Zeeon subdivisions patch, he couldn't believe that sound was coming from an ipad!   Do I need a knob with "cutoff" written on it so badly, vs one that I have to map from my hardware keyboard?  Really wrestling with this lately.

If you have an iPad, and a softsynth you like, and a board that integrates really well with iPad, why not give the combinatin an airing at a couple of gigs? You'll quickly know if you need to change course and spend additional $$$ on a hardware module.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[UnderGroundGr]

16 hours ago, yannis D said:

No, Camelot uses whatever music Vsts you already have in your iPad'. For starters you could just buy something like Korg Module app and built your rig from there. Good thing about ipad apps is that they're relatively cheaper in comparison with VSTs for Mac. Plus there are many freebies (effects and instruments) with great sounds that you can download and run them through Camelot. 

Yanni, camelot for ipad is not compatible with all synths/plug-ins. I bought it and cancelled because 80% of my plug-ins not worked...

[Stokely]

1 hour ago, stoken6 said:

If you have an iPad, and a softsynth you like, and a board that integrates really well with iPad, why not give the combinatin an airing at a couple of gigs? You'll quickly know if you need to change course and spend additional $$$ on a hardware module.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

That's a good idea.   I'm going to make a few MODX external patches with zones using Zeeon, or possibly OBXD if I pick that up.  If something goes wrong, I'll have the MODX fallback patch ready (or just have internal Parts muted and ready to go on the same performance.)

As much as I think Zeeon is nice, if I could run Repro or Diva on an ipad I'd have little hesitation.  Those and my pianos are a reason I'm still considering mainstage.  Where to put the laptop is the part I don't like, but I'd have the same issue with a tabletop.  

Didn't mean to derail!
 

[yannis D]

1 hour ago, UnderGroundGr said:

Yanni, camelot for ipad is not compatible with all synths/plug-ins. I bought it and cancelled because 80% of my plug-ins not worked...

Οf course. Camelot (just like AUM for most parts) is compatible with some VSTs. You have to check before the purchase. Most of the times the App store will indicate if the application will work with your iPad or not

[Reezekeys]

26 minutes ago, Stokely said:

As much as I think Zeeon is nice, if I could run Repro or Diva on an ipad I'd have little hesitation.

 

The Synthmaster iOS synths are pretty happening IMO. Not cheap as far as iOS apps go ($20 for SM1, $25 for SM2). They have some freebies though, the Synthmaster Player (some editing allowed), and Synthmaster 2 for iPhone only. Just a happy customer here.

[AnotherScott]

7 hours ago, yannis D said:

Οf course. Camelot (just like AUM for most parts) is compatible with some VSTs. You have to check before the purchase. Most of the times the App store will indicate if the application will work with your iPad or not

There are a few different issues here which sound like they may be getting conflated.

 

The iPad doesn't actually run VSTs per se (which is a PC and Mac compatible plug-in format). The instrument sounds on iPad come from their own apps... and those apps can have different methods of communicating with other apps (or none at all). The newest (and now probably the most common among professional calibre apps) is AUv3 compatibility, which lets the app run either by itself or as a plug-in to some other host (similar to a VST). Earlier standards for communication between apps were Audiobus and Apple's IAA (Inter-App Audio) which they have phased out. Note that whether an app will work on your iPad is a completely different issue from which communication standard it uses.

 

Camelot Pro was specifically designed for AUv3 from the start, but does work with other apps as well. From https://kb.audiomodeling.com/en/c/compatibility/d/on-ipad-why-are-some-music-apps-not-displayed-in-the-plugin-list/ :

 

 

But again, whether or not an application will work on your iPad will not tell you whether it will work in Camelot Pro. It depends instead on meeting the criteria listed above.

 

As for Camelot alternatives, AUM was originally designed for Audiobus compatibility, and IIRC, then they added IAA compatibility when Apple introduced that, then they added AUv3 compatibility as well. Keystage added AUv3 compatibility with their version 2.

 

 

So it's possible for a given app (i.e. an older one) to be controllable by one of these host environments and not another, or to not be able to be controlled by them at all. It's become less of an issue since the introduction of AUv3, since everything seems to be going that way these days. (Though accessing GarageBand sounds outside of Garageband is still basically a non-starter, it doesn't work and play well with others.)

 

 

[RodWichita]

Just throwing this out there...David makes good products.  

https://sundaysounds.com/pages/sunday-keys-app

 

 

[Reezekeys]

Of course the other big advantage AUv3 has over running an app in the background and using virtual midi ports is the ability to have multiple instances of a single app in the host, e.g. I have three instances of the Korg Module - rhodes, clav & strings. In my AWB AUM setup I have those plus four instances of VirSyn's AudioLayer, among other plugins. With audiobus ot IAA you have effectively only one instance of each.

[hrestov]

Auv3 is a lot more comfortable. I think that in a 30-40 songs set list, I use 5-6 instances of vb3, 5-6 of Korg module, 5-6 of bs 16, and 20-30 instances of various synth (now I prefer Mood, Poison 202, Synthmaster one). Without auv3 it’s impossibile to think to use all the app in background and send program changes. And there are also 10-20 instances of auv3 fx that I use. 

I use yamaha cp73, with its audio interface, it is a quite simple setup: iPad 8 connected with a lighting usb Bluetooth adapter, the usb go to cp73 and the lithinng cable go to power to power the iPad. 
Acoustic and electric piano by the Cp73, organ and synth and orchestral by the iPad. Camelot does the split/layer and sets volume levels of cp73 and auv3. 
In rehearsal I often use a mixface sl to quickly adjoust the volumes for each sound/song.  I connect it to iPad with Bluetooth, and power it with usb of Cp73. 
 

[UnderGroundGr]

16 hours ago, yannis D said:

Οf course. Camelot (just like AUM for most parts) is compatible with some VSTs. You have to check before the purchase. Most of the times the App store will indicate if the application will work with your iPad or not

I was so disappointed, because i would give a try to ipad for live use and camelot is a great program...