Dr88s Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 I’m hoping you fine helpful and informed folks can help me troubleshoot an issue. I have a low-stakes, for-fun gig coming up. My issue is that parking can be quite far from the rehearsal space and the gig will only require a few bread and butter sounds so I thought this would be a very good time to experiment with using my iPad as a sound source which would allow be to bring along a light controller or even using the ancient keyboard that lives in the practice space. The goal is to travel as light as possible. I wanted to use my Studiologic Numa Compact 2X because it is light, has 88 keys, and most importantly has a built-in audio interface with two-way communication so there would be no need to bring extra equipment. I got it set up with Camelot pro on the iPad and it functions, but constantly drops an unacceptable number of MIDI notes and is unusable for band use. The first step in the troubleshooting process was to try a different keyboard. My MODX also has a built-in-interface and in fact with the Yamaha it works flawlessly, so the issue is the Numa. Obviously bringing the Yamaha would defeat the purpose as the MODX8 is quite heavy and cumbersome to transport in its case. Can anyone with any knowledge of the Numa guide me to perhaps isolate and fix the issue, or suggest me a MIDI controller with a built-in audio interface to try if I decide I want to go to the iPad route in the future? Quote Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John H Carter Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 The 2x is potentially very sensitive to poor quality USB cables, and sometimes doesn't work well unless a powered hub is used. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted January 3, 2023 Author Share Posted January 3, 2023 2 hours ago, John H Carter said: The 2x is potentially very sensitive to poor quality USB cables, and sometimes doesn't work well unless a powered hub is used. I guess investing in another USB to lightning cable can’t hurt. Quote Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 which ipad? i have the numa 2x and an ipad 256GB mini 6 with a USB C hub with Camelot pro and it has worked flawlessly so far... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted January 3, 2023 Author Share Posted January 3, 2023 18 minutes ago, D. Gauss said: which ipad? i have the numa 2x and an ipad 256GB mini 6 with a USB C hub with Camelot pro and it has worked flawlessly so far... Mini 5th generation. I don’t use a hub because I liked the ease of the one-cable for simultaneous transmission of MIDI and audio. The 5th generation still had a lightning port. Quote Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Burgess Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 The few times I've used my iPad, I've always used the Apple Camera Connection adapter, plus a short USB cable. Does it just work with the Lightning/USB cable direct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 9 hours ago, Dr88s said: I guess investing in another USB to lightning cable can’t hurt. I hope you're using an Apple CCK/USB3 adapter (lightning-to-USB A) and a decent USB A-to-B cable. Third-party lightning accessories have a habit of becoming unreliable/failing at weird times. Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted January 3, 2023 Author Share Posted January 3, 2023 4 hours ago, Adam Burgess said: The few times I've used my iPad, I've always used the Apple Camera Connection adapter, plus a short USB cable. Does it just work with the Lightning/USB cable direct? Yes, with dropped notes, but perfectly with the MODX. One cable, no CCK needed. Quote Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted January 3, 2023 Author Share Posted January 3, 2023 2 hours ago, stoken6 said: I hope you're using an Apple CCK/USB3 adapter (lightning-to-USB A) and a decent USB A-to-B cable. Third-party lightning accessories have a habit of becoming unreliable/failing at weird times. Cheers, Mike. I have a genuine Apple CCK but in the jumble of my music room have misplaced it and ordered a USB – B to lightning cable. Maybe that is the culprit. It does, however, work flawlessly with the MODX. Quote Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Dr88s said: I have a genuine Apple CCK but in the jumble of my music room have misplaced it and ordered a USB – B to lightning cable. Maybe that is the culprit. It does, however, work flawlessly with the MODX. In general I've found 3rd-party lightning accessories hit & miss. I've bought quite a few plain lightning-to-USB A cables and just count on them dying at some point. A few I've had for a long time and they've been fine. At the least you should look for the "MFI certified" label on any lighning accessory. One potentially very dumb question - you're not using the iPad to power the Numa via USB? I power my controller from my iPad 9G but it's connected to the USB3 CCK which is connected to the charging cube and AC power (or a 10,000mAh battery bank). The MODX is of course self powered so wouldn't draw current from the iPad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted January 3, 2023 Author Share Posted January 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Reezekeys said: One potentially very dumb question - you're not using the iPad to power the Numa via USB? Nope. I can’t imagine there would be enough juice. The Numa is plugged into the mains. The unit I bought second hand has an internalized power supply so there’s just an IEC connector rather than a wall wart. Quote Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted January 3, 2023 Author Share Posted January 3, 2023 All I can say is that I freakin’ LOVE you great folks here at KC. After frantically rummaging around my storage areas, I found my camera connection kit and a brand new robust looking USB cable and voilà! No more dropped MIDI notes. @John H Carter @Adam Burgess @stoken6 @Reezekeys @D. Gauss I can’t thank you enough. You really did help me troubleshoot and fix this. Quote Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 I spoke a bit too soon. There are still some dropped notes here and there but far far far fewer than previously, leading me to believe that it is certainly a USB cable issue. I will try all the ones that I have on hand. Quote Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 I bought my Numa @X used, but it came in the original box with a high speed, really, really long USB cable. Does yours have that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaJockey Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 From my experience, even though you may want to keep it ultra simple, I'd plug the ac adapter into the Numa, if you haven't done that, you may find the problem goes away permanently with any cable. Quote The companions I can't live without: Kawai Acoustic Grand, Yamaha MontageM8x, Studiologic Numa Piano X GT, Kronos2-73, . Other important stuff: Novation Summit, NI Komplete Ultimate 14 CE, Omnisphere, EW Hollywood Orchestra Opus, Spitfire Symphony Orchestra, Sonuscore Elysion and Orchestra Complete 3, Pianoteq 8 Pro, Roland RD88. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean M. H. Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 12 hours ago, Dr88s said: Nope. I can’t imagine there would be enough juice. The Numa is plugged into the mains. The unit I bought second hand has an internalized power supply so there’s just an IEC connector rather than a wall wart. Wait, are you saying your Numa has been modified in some way from a standard/factory unit in regards to the power supply? If so, I wonder if that's the culprit--some sort of interference or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaJockey Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Sorry, missed your comment about the internal PS. That has to be a mod! ......Maybe the issue is connected. I'll bet they've just mounted the power brick inside? Quote The companions I can't live without: Kawai Acoustic Grand, Yamaha MontageM8x, Studiologic Numa Piano X GT, Kronos2-73, . Other important stuff: Novation Summit, NI Komplete Ultimate 14 CE, Omnisphere, EW Hollywood Orchestra Opus, Spitfire Symphony Orchestra, Sonuscore Elysion and Orchestra Complete 3, Pianoteq 8 Pro, Roland RD88. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 On 1/3/2023 at 11:58 PM, DeltaJockey said: I'll bet they've just mounted the power brick inside? I would presume so. 1 Quote Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Burgess Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 On 1/4/2023 at 8:58 AM, DeltaJockey said: Sorry, missed your comment about the internal PS. That has to be a mod! ......Maybe the issue is connected. I'll bet they've just mounted the power brick inside? The Numa Organ 2 came exactly like that from the factory. IEC on the back to figure-8 connector to a 9/12V brick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Adam Burgess said: The Numa Organ 2 came exactly like that from the factory. IEC on the back to figure-8 connector to a 9/12V brick. No brick on mine. Just a figure-8 connector to wall. I presume the brick was internalized. I’m not sure if that could cause interference. It’s otherwise fine. Quote Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Burgess Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 3 hours ago, Dr88s said: No brick on mine. Just a figure-8 connector to wall. I presume the brick was internalized. I’m not sure if that could cause interference. It’s otherwise fine. Just an observation regarding the Numa Organ 2 - sticking a 9v adapter inside a unit is not uncommon 🙂 So, I don't think that'll make a difference interference-wise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Burgess Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 5 minutes ago, Adam Burgess said: Just an observation regarding the Numa Organ 2 - sticking a 9v adapter inside a unit is not uncommon 🙂 So, I don't think that'll make a difference interference-wise. Having said that, if it's only a figure 8 connection, I wonder if a missing ground from the mains would affect it? The unit would have to be grounded thru a connected mixer/amp over audio cables. The iPad I don't think is grounded, so you wouldn't get a ground from that… A floating ground could for sure cause some issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 42 minutes ago, Adam Burgess said: Having said that, if it's only a figure 8 connection, I wonder if a missing ground from the mains would affect it? The unit would have to be grounded thru a connected mixer/amp over audio cables. The iPad I don't think is grounded, so you wouldn't get a ground from that… A floating ground could for sure cause some issues. This is above my pay grade! I’m curious if this would only manifest as occasional dropped midi notes without any other noticeable effect. Quote Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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