Gemini Desktop Module, Hammond SKPro and Velocity Curves

[BenWaB3]

I'm currently using a Gemini desktop module for Rhodes, Wurli, Clav & Acoustic pianos since the extra voices on the SK leave something to be desired. My main problem is that the Rhodes especially, seems to go to "bark" way too quickly. To be upfront about it I'm not a fan of the hard bark to begin with. I'd really like to find a sound like Herbie Hancock's "Fat Albert Rotunda" phase or Stevie Wonder's "Talking Book" phase. They had a bark to them when needed but it was more like a "thunk". Granted, this sound might be boring to some players but we all have our preferences. This has seemed to be the situation with other alternatives I've tried as well, such as the extra voices on the SK, Neo-Soul, etc. Part of the problem could be that too often programmers go for a caricature of the sound thereby putting too much emphasis on these and bringing them in way too early. I did try the iOS keyboard package from GSI and while it didn't end up quite as good as the desktop module I did like the customization of the velocity curve so that I could limit the velocity to just under the "overbark" mark. Could it be that the SKPro curves are just too wonky to start with? I have to either concentrate on playing lightly all the time, which takes you out of any creative flow, or putting up with a solo that is all hard bite on the sound. Since the Gemini will probably never have an update that lets you design your own curves. I did see the MIDI Solutions Velocity Converter at a couple of online stores. Would this be a good fix to the problem or is there something else anyone could recommend that would be better (other than a suggestion to take a long walk on a short pier)? Sorry about the long length of this post but, unfortunately, brevity has never been my strong suit. Thanks in advance

[ElmerJFudd]

Doesn’t the SKPro offer several velocity curves to choose from - light to heavy?  None of them keep the Gemini from reaching bark too easily?  
 

What’s the software editor for the Gemini Rhodes model offer for ways to customize the behavior of the model?  assuming the sound your using is a model and not a sample. 
 

The SKPro itself doesn’t offer a Rhodes sample library that’s much closer to taste than what you find on the Gemini?  
 

There are many many many many Rhodes sample libraries for software samplers and players.  It may be time to go laptop if you want access to that stuff.  
 

 

 

[Delaware Dave]

31 minutes ago, BenWaB3 said:

Since the Gemini will probably never have an update that lets you design your own curves.  I did see the MIDI Solutions Velocity Converter at a couple of online stores. Would this be a good fix to the problem or is there something else anyone could recommend that would be better

 

The Gemini module has a bark and bite level in the 'sound engine' section of the preset. If the Gemini's is also too much bark for you then you can reduce that directly in the preset.  I find the Gemini's rhodes response to be similar to the Rhodes I owned back in the day.  To get my real Rhodes to bark required lots of velocity and that is how the Gemini's appears to be set, at least from the controller that I use.  I would adjust that parameter first before investing in any money/time with a MIDI solutions Velocity converter because unless you bring the rhodes in on a specific midi channel your adjustment to the velocity would also effect the other sounds out of the gemini as well.

 

BTW, when I auditioned the Nord Stage 3 and the Electro 5 I found the same issue, the bark attack was very quick to engage, to the point that it was not a realistic feeling when playing it.

[Outkaster]

1 hour ago, BenWaB3 said:

I'm currently using a Gemini desktop module for Rhodes, Wurli, Clav & Acoustic pianos since the extra voices on the SK leave something to be desired. My main problem is that the Rhodes especially, seems to go to "bark" way too quickly. To be upfront about it I'm not a fan of the hard bark to begin with. I'd really like to find a sound like Herbie Hancock's "Fat Albert Rotunda" phase or Stevie Wonder's "Talking Book" phase. They had a bark to them when needed but it was more like a "thunk". Granted, this sound might be boring to some players but we all have our preferences. This has seemed to be the situation with other alternatives I've tried as well, such as the extra voices on the SK, Neo-Soul, etc. Part of the problem could be that too often programmers go for a caricature of the sound thereby putting too much emphasis on these and bringing them in way too early. I did try the iOS keyboard package from GSI and while it didn't end up quite as good as the desktop module I did like the customization of the velocity curve so that I could limit the velocity to just under the "overbark" mark. Could it be that the SKPro curves are just too wonky to start with? I have to either concentrate on playing lightly all the time, which takes you out of any creative flow, or putting up with a solo that is all hard bite on the sound. Since the Gemini will probably never have an update that lets you design your own curves. I did see the MIDI Solutions Velocity Converter at a couple of online stores. Would this be a good fix to the problem or is there something else anyone could recommend that would be better (other than a suggestion to take a long walk on a short pier)? Sorry about the long length of this post but, unfortunately, brevity has never been my strong suit. Thanks in advance

 

 

I think Jim A. said on another thread some of the SK Pro sounds were third party like the piano for example. 

[JMcS]

In addition to the Velocity Curve options the SK's have a parameter called Velocity Offset. This parameter gives the musician the ability to add or subtract a value to the velocity value generated by the key strike. Adjusting this parameter along with trying the various curves may help you dial in the kind of attack sound you want. Good luck.

[BenWaB3]

Thanks for the suggestions. With the ability to offset the velocity that seems to help a lot. I have it set to -15 for now and will see how that needs to be adjusted when playing out in a live situation. I can still get a lot of bark if needed or wanted (rarely) but at least now have to work hard to get it, which is much preferable to having it come in by the time you're hitting the keys with medium hardness at best. Offsetting the velocity also tames the overtones you get at maximum, and it seemed like they were more than you would get on a real Rhodes anyway. Like I had said before, often vintage emulations seem more of a caricature than the original instrument anyway. Also, I had the Hammer Hardness & Bark and Bite both set to zero. Now I can add a little Hammer Hardness to get more of a thunk at the beginning of the note. Thanks again!