Back from the abyss I am. Now I need gear advice.

[Krakit]

Hello old and new friends. I have returned to ask the community that has been so helpful to me in the past to be helpful to me again. It's been a few years since I dipped out, but I have been battling a lot of health issues and playing keyboards beyond practice and personal enjoyment was about all I could do for far too long. 

 

I find myself wishing to return to the gigging scene, but I need some help. 

 

My needs as far as packing, lugging, loading and setting up gear are different from the old days. For example, I have a Roland FA-08 that I don't think would be wise to take to shows because the beast weighs 50lbs. So, I will need to find some gear that I can easily transport but will also not embarrass me on stage. 

 

The gear I have is:

 

The aforementioned Roland FA-08, Korg X50 (super easy to carry), Korg M3 (just the module that I play through the FA-08 as a controller), Roland A-49 MIDI'd up to both a QSR rack and a Dave Smith MOPHO for leads.  (See photo)

 

All of which are arranged on a Griffin stand that I modified to comfortably hold the above mentioned boards. 

 

Additionally I have:

 

Yamaha Reface CS (also used for leads)

Roland JX-08 

Roland Go Keys

Casio ST-1

Korg Volca Keys

Roland A-30 MIDI controller

and various 49 and 61 key MIDI controllers for hardware modules. 

 

I want to be bring a minimum of 3 keyboards to perform with,  one 88 weighted action keyboard for piano parts, the Korg X50, and a lead synth. 

Ideally I would like to also have an semi or non weighted 76 or 88 key keyboard possibly the A-30 connected through my UM-880 MIDI router to control the QSR, JX-08 and play the MOPHO and Korg Volca Keys with the Roland A-49. 

 

The issue is that I don't want to lug around the FA-08 for the piano parts.  

 

I would bring the Go Keys or the ST-1 in lieu of the A-30 if such boards are road worthy enough. 

 

So, I need to shop for something lightweight with 76 or 88 keys for piano (Casio Privia maybe? Perhaps Studiologic Numa?) and consider leaving the M3 and FA-08 at home. 

 

I don't want to spend a fortune (no Nords or anything pricey like that) and I would like to not carry anything over 25 pounds but even less weight than that would be even better. 

 

I wish to play progressive rock with lots of bread and butter patches but also many hand rolled craziness that I use for original songs. So think in terms of a multikeyboard rig that won't break my back or the bank. 

 

Am I asking for the impossible? Should I just suck it up and get a hand truck for my FA-08? 

 

I have lots of other keyboard stands to mix and match whatever ends up being my final solution. Two tiered Stay stand, lots of on stage x and table stands. Pyle two tiered knock off of the K&M table with second tier and a column stand made by Fat Toad. So I shouldn't have to bring the DJ coffin stand I'm using in the photo because it's a headache to break down and set up. I am not adverse to picking up an A frame three tiered stand like the Ultimate Support that I used to have, but keep in mind that you can't fit an 88 key board on one of those. I could set up as many as six other keyboards (with extra arm supports added to each cross bar. Something I had done in the past) and one extra heavy stand for just the weighted keyboard arranged in an L on stage. 

 

Sorry if this is a lot of rambling. I have been trying to figure this out on my own but so much gear has been produced in the last decade or so and I haven't been keeping up with it all the way I used to. 

 

 

 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

As a heads up in the day i used to use an A30 (or the next model basically the same)

 

It was bullet proof back then and felt good to play for a semi weighted. They say similar keybed to a modern Numa Cocal 2x

 

Possible keeper if you dont want to spend money

 

Only thing i dont like is the bender controls to left making longer than necessary but i think it was not as bad as other extended left hand sides panels

 

I have a QSR but generally use a Qs6.1 on top if needed as i can access the patches instantly to change multis. Alas the QSR doesnt have easy patch selection but your A30 addresses that altough not bank selection if i remember rightly

[KuruPrionz]

I am always amazed at how many musicians don't seem to understand wheels.

No matter what you get to play on, get a well made, medium duty collapsable dolly with at least 6" wheels. 

You'll wonder why you didn't get one sooner. I put anything that will go on a dolly, on a dolly. I never carry my stuff any farther than is unavoidable. 

 

I've had dollys for years and am always amazed watching bandmates lugging gear out to their vehicles. We don't have to do that!!!!

I don't know much about keyboards so I can't help there but your "Should I just suck it up and get a hand truck for my FA-08? "

is easily answered. YES!!!! USE IT FOR EVERYTHING!!!!!! 😊

[stoken6]

3 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

your "Should I just suck it up and get a hand truck for my FA-08? "

is easily answered. YES!!!!

Respectful challenge to this recommendation: if you get a truck/trolley, you still need to lift the FA08 out of the car onto it before the gig, and the reverse after the gig. A truck/trolley reduces the effort and number of trips between vehicle and stage, but not the total weight. I don't know which part of the equation is a challenge for the OP.

 

There are many pieces to your rig - I wonder if you might also benefit from simplifying the number of moving parts, and reduce the effort of setup and teardown. As a simple example - Roland Fantom 06 or 07 as a top board could (?) cover for the FA08 and the Korg X50 and M3, and also act as a controller for modules - although you lose aftertouch. Downstairs, the Numa is worth considering if you like the TP110 action (I haven't tried it, but I hated the TP100 found in previous Studiologics, various Nords and others). Casio is only available in 88, but at least the PX5 has 5-pin DIN MIDI. Most other contenders lack 5-pin MIDI, or over 25lb, or are Nord Electros. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

7 hours ago, Krakit said:

The issue is that I don't want to lug around the FA-08 for the piano parts.  ... So, I need to shop for something lightweight with 76 or 88 keys for piano (Casio Privia maybe? Perhaps Studiologic Numa?) and consider leaving the M3 and FA-08 at home. ... I don't want to spend a fortune ... I would like to not carry anything over 25 pounds but even less weight than that would be even better. 

Kurzweil PC4-7 would be my choice for something in the desired weight range that still feels pretty good for piano playing while also not giving up FA-type functionality in terms of things like sound variety/editability, splits/layers, MIDI capabilities, etc. If you don't need quite as much functionality out of it, and want to keep the price down, you could also look at their SP6-7 (which I haven't played, personally).

 

If you really want to stick with a hammer action, and are basically going to use it for nothing but piano, the Yamaha P-121 will be lightest at 22 lbs. The lightest with good capabilities beyond piano would be Casio PX-5S at 24 lbs... that gets you 5-pin MIDI connections and a bunch of those aforementioned capabilities in things like sound variety/editability, splits/layers, MIDI capabilities, etc.

 

8 hours ago, Krakit said:

I am not adverse to picking up an A frame three tiered stand like the Ultimate Support that I used to have, but keep in mind that you can't fit an 88 key board on one of those.

 

K&M 18880+18881+18882 would give you a 3-tier stand that can fit an 88 and would be lighter and easier to transport/setup/breakdown.

 

2 hours ago, stoken6 said:

Respectful challenge to this recommendation: if you get a truck/trolley, you still need to lift the FA08 out of the car onto it before the gig, and the reverse after the gig. A truck/trolley reduces the effort and number of trips between vehicle and stage, but not the total weight. I don't know which part of the equation is a challenge for the OP.

 

Yes, wheels don't help with getting stuff in/out of the car, or moving the keyboards between their cases and their stands. There's also the issue of what happens if you need to navigate stairs, or if there's bad terrain you need to transport over. 

[Krakit]

So many helpful responses in such a short time, I knew this was the place to come for help with this. 

For real outside of the box thinking, I could see using three MIDI controllers (bottom tier hammer weighted 76 or 88, middle tier the Roland A-30 or similar for organ and poly synth sounds and the Roland A-49 on top for leads) BUT I would want/need modules that live up to the tasks can fit in a 19 inch rack and something that makes chaining patches easy to do on the fly. 

 

Getting harder to find MIDI controllers with 5 pin din outs on them. Everything is usb. I could pick up a MIDI host I suppose (more accessories to pack and keep track of at the end of the night though) 

 

K&M prices are hard to justify. I wish I could get Jasper stands here in NY. They have stands that would fit any need I could imagine. Hopefully someday. 

 

I used to use trucks and dollies to do gigs. I also used to use a Rhodes Mark I Stage 73 in those days too.  Eventually I pared down to:

Ultimate Support Systems apache A frame with gig bag. 

Mini Korg 700 on top right side (still have the Korg but there's something wrong with the electronics that I haven't paid to repair yet)

Center top Alesis Q-25 (still have) then a Yamaha AN200 to the left of that on the top rack (destroyed in storm Sandy)

Second Tier Evolution MK-149 (also lost in storm)

Bottom tier the Roland A-30.

Off to my left side at a 90 degree angle was a table style stand supporting a Roland RD100 just for piano. Didn't used to mind the weight of that back in my younger days. I guess after the Rhodes it felt light as a feather. 

To my right a modified SKB rack unit housing:

Roland Super JX MKS 70 (still have but doesn't work and needs fixing, but eventually I need it back up and running as all of the sounds on it were DIY by me. I also have a JX-8P in storage, but I don't want to take her on the road. 

Behringer Eurorack Pro line mixer (still got)

Edirol UM-880 (still got)

Custom patch bay with 5 MIDI din inputs, 4 stereo pairs of quarter inch inputs and one pair outs.

Lexicon MPX 110 effects

Alesis QSR 

and finally power conditioner for the whole thing.

 

Somehow I managed to transport all of this easily enough back in the day. 

The UM-880 gives me the ability to route anything to anything else with buttons and save configs that I can load up during performance. Love this thing would never sell. 

 

I'm thinking that if I could just find a good cheap weighted 88 key controller with DIN 5 pins out, an up to date piano module to connect it to that half of my battle would be won right there. 

 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, Krakit said:

I'm thinking that if I could just find a good cheap weighted 88 key controller with DIN 5 pins out, an up to date piano module to connect it to that half of my battle would be won right there. 

The other big problem beyond finding a "cheap weighted 88 key controller with DIN 5 pins out" is finding one at under 25 lbs.

 

If you go down to 73 keys, you get close at 25.3 lbs with a Studiologic SL73 Studio, $530.

 

For 88 keys and 5-pin MIDI at lowest price in that same weight range, you can look at some boards which have sounds, but you can ignore the sounds (or just look at them as emergency backup) and still use the board as a controller. There's the Kawai ES110 (26.5 lbs, $699), Kurzweil SP1 (27.25 lbs, $899), and Casio PX-360 (26 lbs, $999). The Kawai has been reduced to that price, presumably because of the imminent release of the ES120. The Kurzweil has better MIDI functionality. The Casio is listed there because it's lighter than the Kawai or Kurzweil, and so then between these three and the Studiologic, you have four possible actions to choose from, perhaps to find the least expensive and/or lightest one that you like the feel of. But once you go to $999 for the PX-360, you might well try to go up another $100 to the PX5S to get the weight down to 24 lbs and get its better MIDI capabilities. Of course, now you're past double the price of the Studiologic. But OTOH, you may find its piano sound to be "good enough" and so spare you the expense of an "up to date piano module" so it could still end up cheaper. 

 

If you really want a separate "up to date" piano module, pickin's are slim. Maybe the V3 Sound Grand Piano XXL, $465. I don't think there are any other contenders under a grand. Cheaper to run Ravenscroft on an iOS device. (Especially if you already have one!)

[KuruPrionz]

7 hours ago, stoken6 said:

Respectful challenge to this recommendation: if you get a truck/trolley, you still need to lift the FA08 out of the car onto it before the gig, and the reverse after the gig. A truck/trolley reduces the effort and number of trips between vehicle and stage, but not the total weight. I don't know which part of the equation is a challenge for the OP.

Cheers, Mike.

No dings, no worries. But at least consider the other part of my post that you left out. 

 

"I am always amazed at how many musicians don't seem to understand wheels.

No matter what you get to play on, get a well made, medium duty collapsable dolly with at least 6" wheels. 

You'll wonder why you didn't get one sooner. I put anything that will go on a dolly, on a dolly. I never carry my stuff any farther than is unavoidable. "

 

I know all about gear that is too heavy. I've spent time recently passing these things along to other musicians so I don't have to lift them any more. 

That said, if I can put a 25 pound guitar amp and a 20 pound gig bag on a dolly and roll them to my car, I'm gonna!!!! 😇

I only mentioned his current keyboard since he brought up the possibility of lugging it around and mentioned maybe getting a dolly.

In my mind, there is no "maybe" about getting a dolly. Even if you move to lighter gear (which I have done and recommend), you will still have a better world for having a dolly. 

Best, Kuru

[AnotherScott]

1 minute ago, KuruPrionz said:

In my mind, there is no "maybe" about getting a dolly. Even if you move to lighter gear (which I have done and recommend), you will still have a better world for having a dolly. 

 

Yes, I have a cart, there are definitely times it has come in handy! But yup, I still go for the light gear, because of the other factors I mentioned. So for me, the main benefit of the cart is, when there's a long (but level) distance from the car to where I'm playing, I can reduce the number of trips by putting a bunch of stuff in the cart. 

[Shamanzarek]

Don't know where you are located but if you are on the east coast and can do left-hand bass there may soon be an opening in a Doors tribute band based in CT that supplies a vintage Rhodes Piano Bass and Gibson organ. All you would need to bring is a keyboard for electric piano sounds.

[Krakit]

54 minutes ago, Shamanzarek said:

Don't know where you are located but if you are on the east coast and can do left-hand bass there may soon be an opening in a Doors tribute band based in CT that supplies a vintage Rhodes Piano Bass and Gibson organ. All you would need to bring is a keyboard for electric piano sounds.

 

Ooof, again? I spent most of the 90's playing the part of Ray in a Doors tribute band. I think I want to try all originals this time around. 🤪

[stoken6]

By the way, the FA08 is 36lb not 50lb. Are you adding the weight of a case?

 

7 hours ago, Krakit said:

modules [...] can fit in a 19 inch rack [...] Everything is usb. I could pick up a MIDI host I suppose (more accessories to pack and keep track of at the end of the night though) 

If you're going to build a rack, stick the MIDI hosts in there, and run a USB cable in your loom from the rack. Sipario X router might make a good replacement for your UM800 - one MIDI IN and three MIDI outs on 5-pin (plus more on mini-TRS) as well as a USB host, and all the other capabilities it brings.

 

7 hours ago, Krakit said:

I'm thinking that if I could just find a good cheap weighted 88 key controller with DIN 5 pins out, an up to date piano module to connect it to that half of my battle would be won right there. 

That seems achievable in one package. EDIT I see Scott has (once again!) listed the contenders. Also think about using a piano sound from one of your other boards, driven from a controller. My choice would be a PX5s if you can stretch to it, because of its controller capabilities.

 

4 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

No dings, no worries. But at least consider the other part of my post that you left out. 

Yup, makes sense. Dolly doesn't reduce the weight, but it still helps with moving gear - even if the gear is light. I have one myself, and I use it to facilitate moving gear over a distance. I've also worked to reduce gear weight myself (maximum is 36lb). If I'm playing a school fair with a car park 50yds across a field - I roll. If I'm playing a club where I can park outside the stage door and need to lift my gear up two flights of stairs - I step.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Shamanzarek]

2 hours ago, Krakit said:

 

Ooof, again? I spent most of the 90's playing the part of Ray in a Doors tribute band. I think I want to try all originals this time around. 🤪

I did too. I played with a Doors band in NJ from 1992 until 1997. Played in a NY/CT Doors band from 1997 to 2022. Then I was in another Doors band in NJ from 2009 to 2022. Now I'm looking to start a Doors band in the southern US.

[Krakit]

1 hour ago, stoken6 said:

By the way, the FA08 is 36lb not 50lb. Are you adding the weight of a case?

I'm going to be totally honest with you. I haven't had to move the FA-08 in years. I just googled the weight and accepted what the first vendor I found listed it as. Either it was a typo, the total shipping weight or I simply misread it. 36 pounds would be far more manageable than 50, that's plenty true. Still, even 36 pounds might prove to be more pain than it's worth. I would have to get a good hard case to protect it from the hazards of the road as well. Hmmm, might be best to leave the workstation home and pick up something still lighter. 

 

1 hour ago, stoken6 said:

If you're going to build a rack, stick the MIDI hosts in there, and run a USB cable in your loom from the rack. Sipario X router might make a good replacement for your UM800 - one MIDI IN and three MIDI outs on 5-pin (plus more on mini-TRS) as well as a USB host, and all the other capabilities it brings.

That is a very interesting looking gizmo. I might have to take a serious look at this, Sipario X router.

6 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

V3 Sound Grand Piano XXL

This unit sounds really good (didn't know it existed). Even at the $500 price tag it might be worth getting this along with a cheap-o hammer action MIDI controller. 

 

Has anyone used a Yamaha Reface CP as an "off to the side" MIDI module? It might be the perfect excuse to finally pick one up. 

 

 

[Dave Bryce]

18 hours ago, Krakit said:

Hello old and new friends. I have returned to ask the community that has been so helpful to me in the past to be helpful to me again. It's been a few years since I dipped out, but I have been battling a lot of health issues and playing keyboards beyond practice and personal enjoyment was about all I could do for far too long. 

 

Good to hear from you, brother Krakit!!!!  Hope all is well with you and yours... 😊

 

dB

[Krakit]

Just now, Dave Bryce said:

Good to hear from you, brother Krakit!!!!  Hope all is well with you and yours... 😊

 

dB

Good to hear from you too. Thanks for the well wishes. 

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, Krakit said:

Has anyone used a Yamaha Reface CP as an "off to the side" MIDI module? It might be the perfect excuse to finally pick one up. 

As well regarded as it is for EPs, it doesn't "officially" have an acoustic piano sound in it (the closest is the Electric Grand). But there is a "hidden" piano in it (it was discovered years ago, and AFAIK, it's still there). Whether it's a good enough piano sound for you, or whether the ability to select it among the boards other sounds during live performance is practical (if you would be using the module for more than just the one sound) are things you'd have to determine...

[Shamanzarek]

Wait. You didn't mention before that you planned on doing all original Prog. Have you determined where you might get a gig with this music? Here in NJ there was a place called the New Jersey Proghouse that for years supported a few local Prog bands most notably the great critically acclaimed band Advent. It was always a labor of love and it appears the NJ Proghouse may have finally folded. It seems a bit premature to figure out how best to move and set up your gear when it might be a few years until you actually have a band or find a venue that presents original Prog. By that time there could be better options for light weight keyboard gear.

[Krakit]

42 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

As well regarded as it is for EPs, it doesn't "officially" have an acoustic piano sound in it (the closest is the Electric Grand). But there is a "hidden" piano in it (it was discovered years ago, and AFAIK, it's still there). Whether it's a good enough piano sound for you, or whether the ability to select it among the boards other sounds during live performance is practical (if you would be using the module for more than just the one sound) are things you'd have to determine...

Oh, that's too bad. I know that it has amazing e pianos, thought it had more than one acoustic in it. 

[Krakit]

41 minutes ago, Shamanzarek said:

Wait. You didn't mention before that you planned on doing all original Prog. Have you determined where you might get a gig with this music? Here in NJ there was a place called the New Jersey Proghouse that for years supported a few local Prog bands most notably the great critically acclaimed band Advent. It was always a labor of love and it appears the NJ Proghouse may have finally folded. It seems a bit premature to figure out how best to move and set up your gear when it might be a few years until you actually have a band or find a venue that presents original Prog. By that time there could be better options for light weight keyboard gear.

Prog is where my roots are, but I am somewhat flexible. I might try to find a jam band situation or something similar. I spent a lot of my early years as something of a snob and I don't wish to continue to be one. I am done with the "tribute band" scene though. Had enough of that. 😉

 

As for the gear I'm shopping for, I have no space to host rehearsals so I imagine I will have to travel myself. My 57 year old body needs helium filled gear. 

[Krakit]

Soooo I'm thinking about maybe the Casio CDP-S360 for the piano part of my rig. I'll have to test drive one first.   

I MUST find someone that can repair my Roland MKS-70.

The rest still needs to be figured out. 

I know I need a 61 or 75 key waterfall action for organ and other polyphonic keyboards that aren't piano and a nice tight 49 key lead synth with very quick action to get the rapid fire single note repeats that I like to play sometimes. 

 

Three boards is actually one less than I used to play with but I'm trying to roadie less for myself than I used to. 

 

[cphollis]

I too want a rig that's light and simple, yet very powerful.  You seem to have many keyboards that do a few things well; I would suggest one master keyboard that does many things well. 

 

I'd go with a lightweight top board (Kurz, Nord or similar), and then get the lightest weighted action you can stand for the bottom, midi'd to the top.  "Light" for me is a NP5 73 bottom board at a svelte 35 lbs.  I did try the lighter actions (Casio et. al.) no deal for me -- that's sort of the minimum in my book.

 

So I end up with two shiny red boards (NS3C+NP5) that together weigh 57 lbs without cases.  The NS3C is very light, the NP5 a bit more dense so I got a wheeled case for it.  The Stage has a reputation around here of not being the best at any one thing, but quite competent at many things -- hence great when you don't have a lot of time to prep for a gig, you are covering multiple gigs, etc.  Its dual panel layout is a natural for supporting a second controller, which I do.  Many Kurz/Korg/Yamaha fans around here as well.

 

YES to the cart or hand truck.  I never leave for a gig without it.  Although I can usually move all my gear in three trips by hand, it's nice to do it all at once, especially if there is distance involved, etc.

[Krakit]

2 hours ago, cphollis said:

I too want a rig that's light and simple, yet very powerful.  You seem to have many keyboards that do a few things well; I would suggest one master keyboard that does many things well. 

 

I'd go with a lightweight top board (Kurz, Nord or similar), and then get the lightest weighted action you can stand for the bottom, midi'd to the top.  "Light" for me is a NP5 73 bottom board at a svelte 35 lbs.  I did try the lighter actions (Casio et. al.) no deal for me -- that's sort of the minimum in my book.

 

So I end up with two shiny red boards (NS3C+NP5) that together weigh 57 lbs without cases.  The NS3C is very light, the NP5 a bit more dense so I got a wheeled case for it.  The Stage has a reputation around here of not being the best at any one thing, but quite competent at many things -- hence great when you don't have a lot of time to prep for a gig, you are covering multiple gigs, etc.  Its dual panel layout is a natural for supporting a second controller, which I do.  Many Kurz/Korg/Yamaha fans around here as well.

 

YES to the cart or hand truck.  I never leave for a gig without it.  Although I can usually move all my gear in three trips by hand, it's nice to do it all at once, especially if there is distance involved, etc.

Nords are outside my budget. They're so ubiquitous it's hard to believe everyone has the cash for these. 

 

I have a convertible hand truck that I used to use for that aforementioned Doors tribute band but it's falling apart and needs to be replaced. 

I -think- that if I can just settle on a very light, not too expensive weighted action stage piano then I can cobble together my whole rig from gear I already own. 

 

Barring that, buying some MIDI controllers that don't weight much routed to a decent piano module, a repaired MKS-70 and my QSR I can get by. 

I have no idea where around me I can get the Roland fixed though. 

 

[ProfD]

The split, layer and multitimbral capabilities of today's KBs along with increased polyphony is a lot better than it was years ago. 

 

A well programmed 61-, 73- or 76-key ROMpler over a weighted 88-note DP goes a long way in terms of KB rig. 

 

If a 3rd KB is a must, put the Roland A-30 on the upper tier MIDI'd to the ROMpler or another sound source. 

 

H8ll, a single well programmed Yamaha MODX8 (30 lbs) could get the job done.  The Roland A-30 can still be utilized.

 

Speaking of The Doors and KB rigs, the late Ray Manzarek got a high mileage out of a Rhodes Piano Bass and a Vox Continental organ.

 

The amount of power in today's technology allows for a highly functional light-weight KB rig. 😎