piano search

[Denny Moffa]

i have been looking for the impossible,,,a stage live performance piano,,,here are my requirements,,,,

LIGHTER WEIGHT

TRANSPOSE FEATURE

GREAT PIANO SOUND THAT CUTS THRU

PIANO FEEL

.......................................................................

DONT NEED,,,,,,,,

DRUMS,,,

SEQUENCER

 NO fancy connectivity,,,plug in and play....SO,

 

[jazzpiano88]

CP88 or ideally a used Cp4

[Mighty Motif Max]

Do you have an audio example of what a "great piano sound that cuts through" sounds like? Perhaps a recording?

 

My general suggestion is to look at Kawai's offerings.

[Kawai James]

Denny, what is your approximate budget?

[cphollis]

"A great sound that cuts through" -- would that be through your own amplification, or someone else's?

 

I think all the name-brand slab pianos (Yamaha, Casio et. al.) are pretty good.  Almost all of them will come with features you won't use, sort of like the ashtray in my car.  Once you're done with that, it's all going to pivot around how you are being heard.

[DovJ]

Seconding @JazzPiano88

 

The CP4 is an incredible-sounding instrument with a great action that feels quite close to a real grand piano, in a 17.5 kg (41 lb) package.

 

Unlike many of the current sample-based AP and EP boards, the CP4 uses a very high-quality modeled approach to sound generation. If you’re used to the finger-sound connection of an acoustic grand, the CP4 will get you as close as I’ve ever experienced, in a fairly light instrument.

 

As they say, YMMV.

 

There’s one on sale in this forum’s classified.

[AnotherScott]

12 hours ago, Denny Moffa said:

i have been looking for the impossible,,,a stage live performance piano,,,here are my requirements,,,,

LIGHTER WEIGHT

Lighter than what? 

 

What would you say your "maximum" and "preferred" weight range would be?

 

12 hours ago, Denny Moffa said:

GREAT PIANO SOUND THAT CUTS THRU

 

Can you give any examples of keyboards you've heard or played that you like the piano sound of? And/or ones you've heard/played that you don't like the sound of?

 

Do you know what you'll be using for amplification?

 

Other questions:

 

Do you need 88 keys, or could you get by with less?

 

And as KJ asked, what's your budget? (Again, a "maximum" and "preferred" range could help with providing options.)

[stoken6]

Budget, desired weight and target sound are the three key questions - all raised above. 

 

I agree that Yamaha does the "cut through" thing better than most. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Depending on the weight, sound, and price factors mentioned earlier, a Nord Piano might be a good option as well. The sound samples on their Piano Library webpage are pretty accurate to how it would sound (if amplified in stereo).

[Outkaster]

This won't end well.

[Stokely]

I'd ask whether you are stereo or mono, because that's the dead horse I'm currently beating and dragging around.  Hard to find a good piano that doesn't fall to pieces (ie, not cut) in mono.

That aside, If I only/mainly needed piano I'd personally strongly consider the Kawai es110 (or 120 now?) simply because it's light yet I still liked the action, and it's not expensive.  Speakers a plus for quick practicing though for gigging I'd wish they weren't there.  Action is all subjective of course.  

[16251]

4 hours ago, DovJ said:

Unlike many of the current sample-based AP and EP boards, the CP4 uses a very high-quality modeled approach to sound generation. If you’re used to the finger-sound connection of an acoustic grand, the CP4 will get you as close as I’ve ever experienced, in a fairly light instrument.

Acoustic piano is not modeled. Electric piano (ie Rhodes is.)

[DovJ]

1 hour ago, 16251 said:

Acoustic piano is not modeled. Electric piano (ie Rhodes is.)

I’m going to join in the “sport” that is so popular in these forums and contradict what you’re saying. 
 

Here’s a quote from a post by Yamaha’s famous “Bad Mister:”

 

”Each of the acoustic pianos also feature a 3Band EQ version of the microphone preamp. These are all extremely "musical EQs" and have a distinct sound of their own. They are a component in the SCM (Spectrum Component Modeling) engine that is used to recreate the piano and electric piano sounds in the CP4 Stage.”

Another quote from Bad Mister:

 

”While the tech in the CP4 Stage is next level stuff, and plays extremely well, and records perfectly... On recordings it is indistinguishable from an acoustic - if you weren't told you wouldn't know. ”

 

Phil (Bad Mister) doesn’t explicitly state that CP4 AP’s are SCM-driven, but he does seem to imply that. 
 

The following chart indicates that the tone generators driving the CP4’s predecessors are SCM based:

 

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/stagekeyboards/cp_series/comparison_chart.html

 

To belabor the point, here’s a quote from a scholarly article about Yamaha’s SCM technology:

 

”Why did Yamaha adopt spectral modeling? We need to consider the technology available to Yamaha in the 2010 time frame. In 2010, the SWP51L “Standard Wave Processor” was Yamaha’s workhorse tone generation chip. The SWP51L has a fixed address width to waveform (sample) memory. Acoustic pianos are notorious memory hogs. It’s possible that Yamaha run up against the physical hardware addressing limit of the SWP51L. Yamaha needed to break this barrier and the psychoacoustic compression offered by SCM was one way out.”

 

In case of interest, here’s a link to the article:

 

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/spectral-component-modeling/
 

It seems (at least to me) that SCM is used to produce acoustic pianos in the early CP series models from the CP1 through the CP4/40. This is conspicuously absent in the current CP and YC keyboards. 
 

I can’t prove that the difference is due to SCM not being employed in the newer models. But, when I play the CFX sound from my CP4 and then use the CP4 as a master keyboard to control the CFX sound in my YC61, the difference in “touch” is completely obvious to me. This seems most relevant when I’m playing Bach, Mozart, Beethoven or Debussy, and much less so when I’m working on a Rock song. 

Of course, writing this note and finding all the references is a complete waste of time that could be put to much better use working on the aforementioned Bach, Mozart, Beethoven or Debussy, or working on the songs I’m writing, not to mention completely unhelpful to the OP.
 

But, what the hey…

[Delaware Dave]

My Gem Equinox (for sale) would fit the bill nicely (except for the 72 pounds).