Which Companies or Brands Have Earned - or Lost - Your Loyalty?

[David Emm]

I hear RABid's story, from a different angle. I started out on a dubious, generic PC clone and Windows 95. Oh, the fresh hell of it! I'm supernaturally grateful to have been sequencing on a workstation then, because if I'd tried it on that colossal white elephant, I'd be in Section BugSh*t Crazy, playing a padded Melodica. My first Mac was a PowerMac that had its own issues, but at least it was stable. Trying to master that PC was like trying to breakdance on top of a UFO in mid-air. 

 

Therefore, I allow myself to make a hex sign and spit when anyone talks about Windows. Even saying the word makes the back of my throat reek like knock-off budget cough syrup. If I had to give up Logic, I'd find a Kronos and buy a basket full of mega-flash drives. The end!   

[Nowarezman]

Too bad about your Dell experience - I've purchased a couple dozen Dell machines give or take over the years for family members and for my business - haven't had one lemon yet.

 

Geez, reformatting the hard drive and reinstalling Windows as the first thing to try for a non-booting computer??  And when that didn't work, just suggest it again?   There have been  simple-to-use programs around since hard drives came in general use that can diagnose a faulty hard drive (that don't boot from the questionable hard drive.)  

 

That's lousy support, no question.

 

 nat

 

[NewImprov]

On 10/20/2022 at 10:10 AM, Anderton said:

As you may know, I worked with Gibson for several years, so I found out what happened with Opcode. Gibson had hoped to get into the DAW space, but shortly after they bought Opcode, they found that OS X was in development. By that time, the main people responsible for developing StudioVision had migrated to Apple. Also the Windows version wasn't fully baked. Gibson had no software team, couldn't get the people who worked on StudioVision to come back, and as a guitar company, really didn't have a clue of how to put together a new dev team from scratch and redo everything before OS X went public 24 months later. So, they just gave up.

 

If Gibson hadn't bought Opcode, I think its fate was already sealed anyway. The problem wasn't so much that Gibson "killed" it, but that they didn't have a realistic strategy for how they could revive it. For users, the main consolation is a lot of the expertise behind Opcode ended up in Logic. For Gibson, it was a total loss. There was still had a huge cache of obsolete audio interfaces sitting in a warehouse when I worked with the company.

I'm really glad you shared this, I have been anti-Gibson (and pretty verbally so) for decades regarding the Opcode situation, and never realized the real story behind the scenes. And, now that I think about it, having used Logic from the late EMagic days through the present Apple-era, I can clearly see that Logic has become more Vision-like (Visionary?) under Apple, probably due to the Opcode staff migration to Apple. I'm glad I know better now.

[Anderton]

3 hours ago, NewImprov said:

I'm really glad you shared this, I have been anti-Gibson (and pretty verbally so) for decades regarding the Opcode situation, and never realized the real story behind the scenes. 

 

I actually found out most of the story before joining Gibson. The first time I ran into Henry Juszkiewicz in person at a NAMM event, I  pounded him about Opcode. He didn't get defensive, but explained what happened, and was courteous instead of being confrontational. Being a journalist and naturally suspicious, I figured yeah, could be deflection but as time went on, his story checked out. I have to say that his honesty about a sore subject impressed me, and was a factor in why I ended up working with Gibson for several years.

 

I know about negative Henry stories, and have lived through quite a few of them   But there are positive ones, too. For example, the wood thing was total BS. Every piece of documentation Gibson had showed that the wood was legal wood, purchased legally. Henry was always aware that someday, the wood would run out. He was an early convert to Richlite, which pro luthiers will tell you is as good, if not better, than conventional ebony fingerboards. He was (is?) on the board of at least one environmental organization. He also wrote a brilliant white paper on how sustainable wood forestry could bring prosperity to third world countries. But after the wood thing, it seemed like the wind had gone out of his sails. It hurt him personally because no matter anyone thinks of Henry, he was trying to do the right thing from an environmental/sustainability standpoint.

 

I am as well aware as anyone about Henry's flaws, but I'm perhaps more aware than most of the side that most people never got to see. 

 

Also, a lot of people aren't aware of what happened with Cakewalk...but that's another story, for another time. At least the program survived, and the users are getting a consistently updated version for free.

[mcgoo]

5 hours ago, Anderton said:

Also, a lot of people aren't aware of what happened with Cakewalk...but that's another story, for another time. At least the program survived, and the users are getting a consistently updated version for free.

 

That's a story I look forward to hearing! 

[zeronyne]

I love this subject. I’m a lifelong student of branding and brand entities.

 

I’m going to start with negatives so I can end on a positive note.

 

Samsung. TV was was two weeks from the end of the warranty and it failed. Tech came out three weeks later, said we were out of warranty (it was the earliest he could arrive). After 6 months of back and forth including a trip to small claims court, that was it for me. And I have many relatives who work at Samsung corporate. I have not bought a single Samsung product since except for OEM stuff I have no control over.

 

Verizon. I have had a Verizon phone account  for close to twenty years. They have consistently been the most expensive option, but their customer service was top notch. My next phone will not be with them, they must have switched CSA firms, because they are really hard to deal with now.

 

I know Akai has changed hands several times, but their tendency to expire driver support but then also not open source the driver tends to practically brick older devices. I will never buy another Akai product again even though I really like their beige sampler OSes.

 

BMW. I’ve owned half a dozen, including two now. Never again. The dealers in my area are now elitist pricks. Same with Land Rover. Two lemons was enough for me.

 

I will never purchase store brands (Mitchell, Simmons, SR, Acoustic, Samson, etc). There’s something inherently dishonest about how these are presented that personally bother me even though all those products are just rebadged.

 

The most painful for me is Propellerheads/Reason Studios. I’ve been a huge loyal fan since Rebirth, but I’m just sad about the direction they are going.

 

and the pain of Opcode’s demise for me was the loss of that beautiful, non-skeuomorphic interface. THAT was the tragedy of losing that DAW.

 

My expectations for a brand are simple: deliver as advertised, remedy any issues quickly and thoroughly, and at least have a facade of caring about customers. I don’t abide by social media trends, especially cancel culture, so you may be surprised by which brands have my non-emotional loyalty based on my three simple requirements:

 

Amazon

Ibanez

Behringer (although I’m very selective about what I will buy from them)

Electro Harmonix

JHS

Noise Engineering

Mutable Instruments

Pepsi

Sony

Zippo

 

That’s it. Every other brand is case by case.

[RABid]

39 minutes ago, zeronyne said:

Samsung

Ohhh, I forgot that one. I used to be big into Samsung. Now the only thing I will consider is their higher end SSD drives. Moved from iPhone to Samsung a few years ago and the phone would track me and push messages like "Olive Garden accepts Samsung Pay. You should use Samsung Pay when you bill arrives." In a two hour outing they messaged me in Olive Garden, Target and Publix knowing exactly where I was. I did an internet search, lots of complaints but no way to turn it off. I took a loss and went back to iPhone. Got a nice Samsung 4K DVD player I had to disconnect from my internet. When I would watch a movie it would push extra previews across the internet connection. Bought a big Samsung Curve TV for the game room. Cannot use HDMI input one because the TV insists that I connect my cable or satellite to that input so it can control the programming schedule view and make suggestions of what program I should watch. Bought a second larger curve TV around the same time and it does not have that requirement. Don't know if that is something they added or removed from the OS. In general, Samsung has horrible OS in their devices. My DVD is totally focused on being an app delivery system with DVD play as a second thought.

[K K]

For me, Kurzweil went from top of my list to no way, never again.

 

Around 1990, put a deposit to be the first to get their (back then) new K1200. Its production was delayed almost a year, so after lots of apologies by them I got a (just as great) 1000PX module and assorted MIDIboard, both brand new. Zero problem with the latter to this day. At this time, Kurzweil customer service people were true gentlemen, not to mention legendary guys like Robert Moog and Hal Chamberlin behind their concepts. I remember another nice Kurzweil fellow named David Fox who confirmed to me about two problems I experienced with the 1000PX, one software and one hardware. Mr Fox was always very nice, confirmed I was correct about the bugs and gave me instructions to fix them, and also later when I ordered sound blocks to add in the sound module. In my book, this is what I refer to as impeccable professional customer service.

 

Unfortunately, the company was later bought by YC and changed quite a bit. Bought another brand new PC2X around 2005. Based on my previous personal experience with Kurzweil and since nobody had that model available around, I ordered it sight unseen. What a terrible mistake I did. Kurzweil keyboards now came with Fatar actions. Mine had this annoying problem that black and white keys velocities vs applied weight were off by 10% and more. The new Kurzweil service guys couldn't care less and actually refused to acknowledge the problem, even though other people had it as well. A particularly annoying and condescending guy, who shall remain nameless since he still works there, even told me that it was caused by my deficient (or lack of) playing technique. As if I had never owned any other digital keyboard before even though I played them for 30+ years already back then, including many concert pianos, etc. So I said OK, thanks. I fixed the Fatar action myself as it was a hardware problem and added Kurzweil on my black list. I then sold the PC2X, but still play the old 1000PX and MIDIboard. In my book, customer service employees should be nice people or at least have a good attitude.

 

In short, it takes just one moron to kill a company's reputation. In my case, I prefer to keep fond memories of the older version of Kurzweil, with Ray, Bob, Hal and David. Those are true gentlemen and I thank them for their respective excellent work.

[KuruPrionz]

Now that I think about it, Discount Tire became my go-to store for tires after a couple of excellent customer service experiences. 

I had a Subaru Impreza and it needed tires. A friend recommended them so I went there, got tires put on. Prices were reasonable, I got the warranty since it was only $11 per tire and they put the new tires on quickly. Everybody was nice, they seemed to know their work and they made sure I was taken care of quickly. Nice, good start.

 

All was well and then one day, something leaped out from nowhere and slashed open the side of the right rear tire. I'd had the tires for a while, don't remember how long but they had plenty of life left in them. I put the donut spare on and drove to Discount Tire. They looked at the slashed tire and said "We can't fix this tire, we have to replace it. But, we can't replace one tire on a Subaru without causing uneven wear in the differentials." I was thinking, "Here it comes, ugh..." and then they said "You have the warranty on all 4 tires so we will replace all of them. Come back in 45 minutes and we'll have your car ready for you. There is no charge since you have the warranty." I lived close by, walked home and they called me in 35 minutes to tell me my car was ready. All the tires were new. I got great use out of them.

 

That is excellent customer service. That was also quite a few years ago so I'd want to check if they're still the same but they certainly did me right on that one. 

[Tusker]

On the hardware side I cannot say enough positive things about Moog Music. They have been so good to deal with over the years.

 

On the software side, I like and respect a lot of software companies but one that stands out is U-He. I am a total fan boy. They don't fill a niche unless they can make a difference in that particular space. Their products are carefully coded and user friendly. They are very thoughtful about LT relationships with their users. Their upgrade paths and licensing reflect that commitment.

[Anderton]

Pre-pandemic, I signed up at a Batteries + Bulbs store for free batteries for life for my Casio watch. It was the same amount of money as replacing the batteries twice, so I figured what the heck.

 

The store closed during the pandemic, and the nearest one was much further away. But, I was going elsewhere in the area, so I brought the watch with me. I didn't have anything saying I'd signed up, but apparently as long as you remember the phone number you gave them, they can find you. But I didn't even need that. I said "Hey, I signed for the free battery thing" and the person just took the watch and said "give me a few minutes." I could have just walked in off the street, they didn't verify anything. Maybe he secretly knew I'm an MPN member  

 

This isn't the first time Batteries + Bulbs did me a solid. It was one of the only places I could get batteries for my uninterruptible power supply, and they have every battery in the universe for cell phones as well as phone protectors and such. No need to go to an AT&T store

 

 

[analogika]

I'm just going to chime in with another company: Metric Halo.

 

I'm running a Metric Halo Mobile I/O 2882 from around 2001 (one of the first thousand, before they changed changed from steel to alu chassis) that, to be fair, I've upgraded over time, first to 2d, and then a few years ago, to the 3d digital board. That in itself is pretty f'in incredible, and I'm still a super happy user after all this time. 

 

Yesterday, they updated their software, changing the driver from a kernel extension (which are a deprecated architecture) to a user-space driver and adding Ventura compatibility.

In the process, they added a new, officially blessed Sontec MES mastering EQ simulation, a new guitar cabinet emulator, and a new limiter. 

 

As part of the new driver model, they ALSO reduced the interface latency by TWO THIRDS (down from 12.9 ms roundtrip to under 4 ms). With identical hardware. 

 

In a free update. 

[Daniel Liston Keller]

Great thread. I'll get my positives in first: 

 

Cherry Audio - I too am a huge fan. Full disclosure - I'm friends with some of these folks, and my (PR) company helped them launch theirs. That said, they make great stuff, are passionate about what they do, and they work their butts off on every release. My only complaint is that their stuff is so good, it's now a lot harder to rationalize to my wife when I want to buy a hardware synth. 

Focusrite - Sure, it's not the Focusrite of old, but their interfaces are rock solid, sound great, and are well thought out. 

Shure - there are better high-end mics, but for day-to-day use, their stuff is consistent, as close to bulletproof as it gets, and their support is simply legendary. (Full disclosure...I was their European Artist Relations guy for most of the 1990s. But I liked them before, during, and afterward.) 

Eventide - a company that continues to reinvent itself. Split EQ is nothing short of phenomenal.

 

And since we've delved into cars, etc...

Honda - I've owned several over the years. They run for freaking ever. 

 

I'm going to pass on slagging music and audio companies, mainly because I still work with so many of them and I never kiss and tell.   But as to my non-audio love-to-hates:

Volkswagen - (sorry, Craig). I loved, Loved, LOVED them several decades ago, owned multiple microbuses and Beetles, and swore by them. In the mid 1980s I bought a Rabbit that caught fire on the SF Bay Bridge (I learned years later they were aware of the problem and covered it up as they quietly discontinued the model). I've had two "new" Beetles, both had electrical issues. I've rented them twice and had to call AAA both times....battery/starter issues. My daughter had a newer Beetle, it had electrical issues (I see a pattern...) 

Any and every domestic US airline - Sometimes I get lucky and have an on-time and incident-free flight. It's never with the same airline twice. They all kinda suck. 

FedEx - I simply won't use them ever again. Too many shipping disasters. 

 

I'm sure there are others, but that's enough griping. 

[KenElevenShadows]

The closest I can think of to brand loyalty are:

RME: rock-solid interfaces. I would look for this first if I ever had to get another audio interface. It. Just. Works. No sync issues.

 

Apple: I am not a fanboy, but my devices last a very long time and keep working. Solid and dependable and nice to work with. I work with Windows stuff too, but for photography and audio, I will continue using Apple.

 

Sweetwater: I will always look here first for purchasing anything pro audio. Why? Great customer service.

 

Pladask Elektrisk: They make bizarre-sounding, innovative pedals. Most people here will not find any use for them or think what they do is great. For the very few of you - you know who you are - fire one of these up and smile.

 

Earthquaker Devices: See Pladask Elektrisk above. They're a little more "normal" than Pladask Elektrisk, but still good and weird and innovative.

 

My friends: I am blessed with having great friends that I love to hang out with. They're my "brand loyalty". Thank you.

[Sundown]

A second for PC Audio Labs … I love my 2012 Rok Box and I’ll be getting a new one in 2023 or 2024. They are a great company building great products and supporting them all the way.

 

I’m very loyal to Steinberg. I feel like I understand their workflow best and I appreciate that they made the VST spec and ASIO drivers open to all developers. They aren’t great about legacy plugin support (there are plenty of still-solid software instruments they have abandoned), but I do like their core DAW products.

 

I’m also very loyal to Universal Audio plugins. I’m a Waves user as well (and I like the new Fabfilter developments), but UAD has a special place in my studio.

 

I absolutely love Kurzweil. They are wonderfully deep instruments with a level of customization you won’t find elsewhere.

 

I have to give a shout-out to Korg, as they continue to develop and advance the Korg Legacy Collection plugins and they probably don’t make any money off of them. I absolutely love the early 90’s ROMplers (and I own an original Wavestation) but I really appreciate that they continue to improve those plugins for such a low price and without any fancy subscriptions.

 

Last but not least, I’ve always liked Mackie. I think their compact mixers offer a great balance of durability, features, and sound and I love the humor in their owners manuals. 

 

On the flip side, I’ve lost my love for Roland. In the late eighties/early 90’s I thought my whole rig would be Roland-based, but somewhere along the line I lost interest. I thought the JD-800 and JD-990 were great, I still love the D-50 and Super JX, but I’m not really interested in any of their newer products. I still have my D-20 and my XV-3080, but if I had three grand to burn, the likelihood of it going to Roland would be low.

 

Native Instruments is another one that lost me. I loved their early product line of modeled instruments (Pro-53, FM7/FM8, B4, etc.), but once they became Kontakt and DJ-focused I lost interest.

 

Outside of music, I started buying Brother printers as I refuse to buy any more HP or Epson units. Epson is an ink scam and HPs just aren’t reliable. I really like the Brother WiFi laser printer we have now.

 

Todd

 

[bill5]

On 11/2/2022 at 11:35 PM, KuruPrionz said:

Now that I think about it, Discount Tire became my go-to store for tires after a couple of excellent customer service experiences.  

Wow must be nice. I bought four tires from them and scheduled a rotation/balance for a 2 PM appt. I got there right before 2, handed them the keys...and waited...and waited...and waited. About 2:45 I notice my car was STILL not even in the bay so I basically said politely "hello and wtf. I had a 2 PM appt, I should have been driving out of here at least 10-15 mins ago." "Oh you're next" they promised. Finally they pull in my car. I get it back, drive out...and it's obvious to me that they didn't balance them. I should have marked the tires to see if they even rotated them. Never again. 

[KuruPrionz]

36 minutes ago, bill5 said:

Wow must be nice. I bought four tires from them and scheduled a rotation/balance for a 2 PM appt. I got there right before 2, handed them the keys...and waited...and waited...and waited. About 2:45 I notice my car was STILL not even in the bay so I basically said politely "hello and wtf. I had a 2 PM appt, I should have been driving out of here at least 10-15 mins ago." "Oh you're next" they promised. Finally they pull in my car. I get it back, drive out...and it's obvious to me that they didn't balance them. I should have marked the tires to see if they even rotated them. Never again. 

That sucks. As I said, it's been quite a while since I did business with them and it could just be that the local store has a great manager and team, where your's fell short in some respect. 

I've heard good things about Costco up here as well but ours is especially busy (now that the border is open again). Covid slowed things down but you can park at Costco and quickly notice that 2 out of 3 license plates say "Beautiful British Columbia". 

Before I get any automobile work done, I ask 3 or 4 friends, one of whom teaches auto mechanics at Bellingham Technical College and has for decades. 

Never a bad idea, no matter where we live...