NUNGD!

[KuruPrionz]

New Used New Guitar day. 

Alvarez Baritone 8 string with double courses on the 3rd and 4th strings. 

I mentioned this guitar in another post, then I watched it on craigslist. And then, I looked up reviews on it. 

And then... I still wanted it. So I contacted to owner, who bought it new, had a complete setup done and found his arthritis prevents him from playing it. 

It was tuned B to B when I got it but the strings felt stiff to me so I tried tunng it down to A. I might have to get a slightly heavier low string but maybe not, it feels good and that makes a G shape chord C, which works well for me. 

Plugged in, it gets deep, rich bassy tones and then the two middle courses chime in with their octave strings. The first and second string work well for any sort of riffing.  Lots of variations!!!!

 

I'm working on a solo act, this will set me apart from most of the guitarist/singers out there. It is kinda big but not huge. I like it. 

[Larryz]

Congrats Kuru!  Have fun with the new axe! Reminds me of Roger McGuinn's 7 string Martin D7 for some reason! Roger McGuinn Explains the 7 String 😎👍

 

 

 

[Larryz]

I know yours's is a Baritone 8 string Kuru, just wondering if compares to the concept in the video with 7 strings in standard tuning?😎

[KuruPrionz]

14 hours ago, Larryz said:

I know yours's is a Baritone 8 string Kuru, just wondering if compares to the concept in the video with 7 strings in standard tuning?😎

Thanks Larryz, it does compare in a "same but very different" sort of way. We could play the Roger Mcguinn model in standard pitch and not have to transpose anything, just for one. 

 

I think Taylor made the first commercially available 8 string baritone acoustic guitar and Alvarez created their own version. 

Tuned down to A it becomes a different animal. It still has some power acoustically but I'd say it becomes more effective as an electric instrument. 

I will have to learn different ways of pickiing it as well as transposing all of my songs. I've learned to transpose on the fly, sometimes you find yourself playing live and there is no choice but to go with what is being played. In the last band, we played Hallellujah in B, the singer capoed his guitar at the 4th fret and played it in "G". We just started playing it one night and I never use a capo live so I just had to play it then and there. This will be easier, I can take my time.

 

Since the pair of double course octave strings are in the middle, there is no avoiding them, that is really not something I'm used to yet but it really changes the way the guitar sounds when strummed, it adds a beautiful high "sheen" to the sound. I'll work something up, record it and post a link here - hopefully fairly soon. Thanks, Kuru

[Larryz]

Thanks for the info Kuru!  +1 I never use a capo.  I can noodle around using scales and take a lead when playing with others in any key.  My playing over the last decade or more has been solo.  I can't really transpose on the fly unless we're talking 3 bangers.  Anything more complicated with chords causes me to write out and practice before performing.  The great thing about doing a solo act is you pick the song material, key, the arrangement, chords, lyrics, etc., no one to debate with... I know you will have fun getting the new axe involved in your solo presentations.😎

[KuruPrionz]

2 minutes ago, Larryz said:

Thanks for the info Kuru!  +1 I never use a capo.  I can noodle around using scales and take a lead when playing with others in any key.  My playing over the last decade or more has been solo.  I can't really transpose on the fly unless we're talking 3 bangers.  Anything more complicated with chords causes me to write out and practice before performing.  The great thing about doing a solo act is you pick the song material, key, the arrangement, chords, lyrics, etc., no one to debate with... I know you will have fun getting the new axe involved in your solo presentations.😎

I do use a capo at home when recording. It's fun for different sounding parts. I'm OK with a few more chords than a 3 banger, I've learned to move the chords up or down the neck regardless of the key, following the rule "Whatever I do, don't do that!!!!". So a song starts in F, I will decorate well up the neck, using the same chords but with different timing and location. 

 

With a scallped fretboard, a capo is a recipe for disaster. In general, I try to avoid anything that wastes time in between songs. 

The people who come to listen may enjoy a quick joke or story but not somebody fiddling about with their instrument. 

I'm there to play!

[Larryz]

I have friends that use capos all over the neck, but only one that realizes you have to check tuning if you move the capo.  That's why I like the short circuit Planet Waves cords. No one has to listen to you tune between songs...I have nothing against capos and have heard beautiful music by those that know how to use them...😎

[KuruPrionz]

44 minutes ago, Larryz said:

I have nothing against capos and have heard beautiful music by those that know how to use them...😎

I like the sound of capos too. I don't like the fussing about that is required to make a beautiful, in tune sound. 

The audience doesn't like that fussing about part either, they didn't come to watch people fiddling with their guitars. 

 

If the guitarist uses heavy strings then a capo can work. I saw Richard Smith several times, he used a capo on a nylon string guitar but he plays solo and it seems to stay pretty well in tune. He would have tuned it if it didn't. Never saw anybody successfully change a nylon string so quickly, one time he broke one. He was fantastic so we were willing to put up with it. 

[CEB]

You simply can't play traditional guitar literature without a capo or what is called the cejilla ... unless you want to play every song in E Phrygian Dominant.  The first most common problem is the third chord of the Andalusian Cadence which I is FMaj7#11. This cadence would be a Spaniard's equivalent to a Bluesman's I IV V.  Sort of like Runaway by Del Shannon.    Think of the third chord as a standard F major barre chord with the bottom B and E strings flattened 1/2 step.   The two bottom strings pull you to resolve to the E chord.

 

If you want to play nylon string guitars and don't have a traditional cejilla then these cheap dunlops work great.  I actually I like them better and if its one of my gig's I don't have to worry about flamenco or classical snobs.  I'm probably covering something like Zac Brown Band tunes.  These dunlops are way faster to put on than having to deal with a cejilla.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EEL29U?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_HJE10E4F7MMAD2RGAKKJ

 

But I'm a big nerd who gets triggered when dumbasses put down capos.  Like Segovia, Paco, or Sabicas don't know guitar.

 

[KuruPrionz]

35 minutes ago, CEB said:

You simply can't play traditional guitar literature without a capo or what is called the cejilla ... unless you want to play every song in E Phrygian Dominant.  The first most common problem is the third chord of the Andalusian Cadence which I is FMaj7#11. This cadence would be a Spaniard's equivalent to a Bluesman's I IV V.  Sort of like Runaway by Del Shannon.    Think of the third chord as a standard F major barre chord with the bottom B and E strings flattened 1/2 step.   The two bottom strings pull you to resolve to the E chord.

 

If you want to play nylon string guitars and don't have a traditional cejilla then these cheap dunlops work great.  I actually I like them better and if its one of my gig's I don't have to worry about flamenco or classical snobs.  I'm probably covering something like Zac Brown Band tunes.  These dunlops are way faster to put on than having to deal with a cejilla.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EEL29U?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_HJE10E4F7MMAD2RGAKKJ

 

But I'm a big nerd who gets triggered when dumbasses put down capos.  Like Segovia, Paco, or Sabicas don't know guitar.

 

Sounds like you are in a different world to an extent. That said, nobody here said they don't like capoes. 😇

A couple of us mentioned that we don't use them for live work, that's a different statement entirely. Consider that I play electric guitar with light guage strings and tall frets (and/or a scalloped fret board).

Try that once, you'll see what I'm taking about. 

I do love nylon string guitars, I've always had one at home and have a decent one now. Yamaha, Gabriella's signature model (Rodriego and Gabriella). 

And yes, much easier to capo and stay in tune. Frets are lower and nylon strings are less tempermental. I love the tone and the big flat fretboard. I play mine often, it's just a different animal entirely. 

 

Among the great concerts I was lucky enough to hear/see, Carlos Montoya and Richard Smith. Carlos is gone but if Richard ever comes your way go see him!!!!

Or watch him on YouTube, starting with the video where he is on national television at 11 years old jamming with Chet Atkins and holding his end up. 😁

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNQkMyoS1Pc

[desertbluesman]

I messed with capos back in the day when I played acoustic guitar. But never bonded with the whole capo thing. Some folks do nice things with them. But for what I wanted to do, it was not anything that I needed.

[Larryz]

Kuru, When I see and hear 11-year-old players like the one playing with Chet Atkins in your video, it makes me want to throw all my guitars in a big pile and burn them LoL!

 

+1 (DBM, CEB & Kuru) a lot of fantastic players use capos and they have been a part of guitar history forever.  I just don't use them.  Different strokes for different folks...😎

  

[KuruPrionz]

25 minutes ago, Larryz said:

Kuru, When I see and hear 11-year-old players like the one playing with Chet Atkins in your video, it makes me want to throw all my guitars in a big pile and burn them LoL!

 

I've seen Richard Smith 4 times, he is in his 50's and has only improved as a guitarist. 

 

Here is a tune with Richard Smith and Tommy Emmanuel.

 

[CEB]

I know Richard.  He plays pretty good for a British guy.    He and Ray Flacke.

[Larryz]

Very nice wheels! I've seen Tommy twice live and looking forward to another of his visits to the USA...Richard is very good too! They play very well together on the Nylons!  😎👍

[desertbluesman]

I never saw Tommy Emmanuel live, but he sure can play according to the videos and broadcast concerts I have seen.👍

[Caevan O’Shite]

On the topic of capos in general and, in particular, the tuning and fidgety-fussy intonation troubles they often present for live performance use, I'll again say that the Thalia capos are the first I've found that do NOT have those hassles. Pop in the appropriate radius Fretpad to match your fretboard's radius and simply put the capo on somewhere between the frets. No fussing, no wiggling, no exacting precise placement, no fine-tuning or retuning or ANYTHING. One-handed.

Thin neck? They have thicker/taller Fretpads to effectively fill in the space and increase the tension to be able to hold the strings down.

Like to bend notes, or change tunings? They also have Teflon Fretpads that allow the strings to slide and glide through more easily than their more traditional rubber Fretpads. I will say that the Teflon Fretpads will get 'scratchy' and 'scuffy' after a lot of use, but they are replaceable and the cost isn't so bad for something you might rely on regularly if you gig a lot.

They even have special Fretpads for 12-String and Baritone guitars.

All of the Fretpads are interchangeable with their "200 Series" capos (what they've been making for a good while now).

[KuruPrionz]

This afternooon I got the 3rd adn 4th double courses aligned better with the rest of the strings. It plays better now. 

Last night I zipped around on the guitar for a couple of hours, off and on. I could get used to it, it's not too big and it's fun!

 

Plugged into a Fishman Loudbox Performer it sounds HUGE. Add a percussionist and I'd have it going on. Add a singer/frontperson so I can switch to harmonies and it's a mini band. Baby steps, still transposing my songs since this is 7 half steps down from standard guitar tuning. 

[CEB]

For steel string stuff I’ve always used Shubb.  I’m a banjo and Dobro player. Shubb is like the Banjo standard.   I have no problems.  I try not to use them on electric guitars.  Never knew how they would work with B and G benders.   In the early 2000s  I had a gig the was sort of a pain. The band had to play some stuff in standard and some stuff in Eb and I only had one Tele with benders installed.   You simply can’t quickly retune because you have to reset the stops on the benders.  I used some Morpheus pedals to Change the guitars concert pitch.  It ‘worked’ but I could feel some latency.   Had benders installed on a second Tele in 2008.  Then threw Hipshot bender on another.  

[KuruPrionz]

14 minutes ago, CEB said:

For steel string stuff I’ve always used Shubb.  I’m a banjo and Dobro player. Shubb is like the Banjo standard.   I have no problems.  I try not to use them on electric guitars.  Never knew how they would work with B and G benders.   In the early 2000s  I had a gig the was sort of a pain. The band had to play some stuff in standard and some stuff in Eb and I only had one Tele with benders installed.   You simply can’t quickly retune because you have to reset the stops on the benders.  I used some Morpheus pedals to Change the guitars concert pitch.  It ‘worked’ but I could feel some latency.   Had benders installed on a second Tele in 2008.  Then threw Hipshot bender on another.  

We are all different, that's part of the fun. 

If I were in a band that played in Eb and E I'd probably tune to Eb and just play the E songs in what would be an F position on a standard tuned guitar. 

I've used B benders a bit but don't have them on any of my guitars now. Giggers are both Parts-O-Casters, a Tele and a Strat.

Both just 2 pickups, botth EMG active with an SPC control and both with Hipshot locking tuners. I only take one or the other, never both. Locking tuners make the rare broken string a non-issue, changing strings is really fast. 

I've been favoring the Strat since I scallped the fretboard. Once I got used to that it's hard to want to switch back. 

It should be pretty easy to see why I don't use a capo on it!!! 😳😁

[Caevan O’Shite]

30 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

This afternooon I got the 3rd adn 4th double courses aligned better with the rest of the strings. It plays better now. 

Last night I zipped around on the guitar for a couple of hours, off and on. I could get used to it, it's not too big and it's fun!

 

Plugged into a Fishman Loudbox Performer it sounds HUGE. Add a percussionist and I'd have it going on. Add a singer/frontperson so I can switch to harmonies and it's a mini band. Baby steps, still transposing my songs since this is 7 half steps down from standard guitar tuning. 

AWERSOME.  


Your scalloped-fretboard Strat-stylee is also pretty awersome.
       

[KuruPrionz]

As promised, how it sounds if I try to play it. 

I am going to lower the action on some of the strings. I love the tones. This is recorded direct on my DAW, no mics. I made 4 tracks of the original recording and put different effects on them. Hope you enjoy. 

 

PS. I just learned I could attach an mp3, handy. 

[Caevan O’Shite]

53 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

As promised, how it sounds if I try to play it. 

I am going to lower the action on some of the strings. I love the tones. This is recorded direct on my DAW, no mics. I made 4 tracks of the original recording and put different effects on them. Hope you enjoy. 

 

PS. I just learned I could attach an mp3, handy. 

That's fantastic! Love it.