Spitfire Audio - Free Glass Piano Plugin

[GovernorSilver]

@Tusker I haven't tried the desktop SWAM instruments yet, but I have played with GeoSWAM instruments, hosted on GeoShred Pro on iPad.  As you would expect, the GeoSWAM instruments are a smaller selection and less functionality compared to their more costly desktop brethren.  

 

 

I have not found anything on IOS that compares to, say, Yamaha's Super Articulation technology, let alone the high-end software sample libraries for squeezing every drop of expression out of samples... so I can't really make a fair comparison statement.   All I can say is the GeoSWAM instruments, imo, have a more lifelike response to finger expression than Thumbjam's, and Thumbjam has long been considered one of the better sample-playback apps on IOS.

 

I like Rohan De Livera's setup - really inspiring to see what a trained composer can do with a Leap Motion gesture controller, and other controllers such as Linnstrument.  I am guessing he has more fun creating his compositions "mockups" using these controllers than somebody who relies more entering traditional articulation notation into scoring software, and trusting the software to render the articulations as intended

 

 

[Reezekeys]

I have betas of the Swam iOS instruments - trumpet, flugelhorn, alto flute, violin & tenor sax. I think it's pretty amazing what can be done on iOS these days. These might not fool an orchestral player but they are damn good, in my maybe not-so-informed opinion!

[Tusker]

21 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

Yes, I'm definitely a "sweetener" person. Never got formal training in arranging or orchestrating except for a brief moment when I was at City College of New York, and wrote an original piece for the big band. I spent two weeks writing out parts by hand (this was 1978!) and when the band played it, the piece was over in 1  1/2 minutes!

 

I can relate to the huge time sink! What a royal pain. When you consider the alternatives!! Especially in jazz, where a four piece with a lead sheet can blow the roof down and make a definitive artistic statement. The amazingly talented Anne Kathrin Dern to me is one of the highly skilled artisans of our media age. They don't get to design the cathedral. But they have mastery of stained glass and the cathedral would not be the same without those amazing windows. They can monetize their skills while building beauty in way few on the planet are allowed to. Unlike artisans of old, these modern artisans can humanize their work space and somewhat control their schedules within the parameters of a larger project.  Like you I have no desire for that business model. It's just that this set of tools is allowing me to express myself!! I'll head down this path for a bit. For what it's worth I am using Ryan Leach's discussions of (Mckay's discussions of) texture to de-program myself from instinctive homophony...

 

https://scoringcentral.mattiaswestlund.net/showthread.php?tid=1256

 

 I am hoping to climb up the learning curve, but who knows? It may not click. Then it will be back to warbling at the piano? LOL 😄 

[Tusker]

18 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

@Tusker I haven't tried the desktop SWAM instruments yet, but I have played with GeoSWAM instruments, hosted on GeoShred Pro on iPad.  As you would expect, the GeoSWAM instruments are a smaller selection and less functionality compared to their more costly desktop brethren.  

 

Nice video Paulo!!  I agree, there is a ton of expression in those instruments. You use it so well. 👍👍 After two generations of iPads I am currently without one, but if I should go back, I'll definitely look into GeoSWAM and Geoshred. That's Jordan Rudess isn't it?

 

18 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

I like Rohan De Livera's setup - really inspiring to see what a trained composer can do with a Leap Motion gesture controller, and other controllers such as Linnstrument.  I am guessing he has more fun creating his compositions "mockups" using these controllers than somebody who relies more entering traditional articulation notation into scoring software, and trusting the software to render the articulations as intended

There are the controllers he is using and then there is articulation switching. I've seen two different approaches on articulations and the community appears spit down the middle: Some have one track per timbre and switch between articulations on that track. This is intuitive for recording but if you are doing a lot of midi editing (the sometimes invisible) articulation commands can become unwieldy. Others have one track per articulation. They might record on a general track and then copy the various bits to each appropriate articulation track. It's a bigger DAW file, but you get more control of editing and only when you need to.

 

Notion is really fast and there is good desktop/iPad integration. It was the perfect level of complexity/precision for writing horn section parts in a tribute band. Also quick lead sheets. Love it. 👍

 

When building orchestral scores, some people build a good sounding arrangement in a DAW and then port it over to scoring software to edit and print precise parts. Others go the other way, from score to midi-mockup.

[Tusker]

Since you were kind enough to listen RDL's Swam approach, perhaps you would consider the alternative?. To be fair, Blakus is at the top of his game. He knows the JW score intimately and he has been fine tuning his approach for years. He is exceptional (like RDL). Still this is what you can do with samples ....

 

 

It seems to me that the modeling approach provides a detailed musicality but not the epic "ringing of a big space" feeling you get when reverberations are recorded with the samples. Even with very good reverb treatments by RDL, it seems to me the human ear can detect the separation between dry and wet signals. Of course, that is not important to some artists. What do you think? 🙏

 

 

[GovernorSilver]

On 2/9/2022 at 8:31 AM, Tusker said:

 

Nice video Paulo!!  I agree, there is a ton of expression in those instruments. You use it so well. 👍👍 After two generations of iPads I am currently without one, but if I should go back, I'll definitely look into GeoSWAM and Geoshred. That's Jordan Rudess isn't it?

 

There are the controllers he is using and then there is articulation switching. I've seen two different approaches on articulations and the community appears spit down the middle: Some have one track per timbre and switch between articulations on that track. This is intuitive for recording but if you are doing a lot of midi editing (the sometimes invisible) articulation commands can become unwieldy. Others have one track per articulation. They might record on a general track and then copy the various bits to each appropriate articulation track. It's a bigger DAW file, but you get more control of editing and only when you need to.

 

Notion is really fast and there is good desktop/iPad integration. It was the perfect level of complexity/precision for writing horn section parts in a tribute band. Also quick lead sheets. Love it. 👍

 

When building orchestral scores, some people build a good sounding arrangement in a DAW and then port it over to scoring software to edit and print precise parts. Others go the other way, from score to midi-mockup.

 

Thanks, Jerry!

 

GeoShred apps are products of MoForte, Inc.  Jordan Rudess is on the Technical Advisory Board:  http://www.moforte.com/about/.  I struggled to find a way use GeoShred that was a good fit with my notion of expressive playing, particularly control over dynamics/volume, and gave up on it... until the GeoSWAM instruments were released.  I find them more intuitive to play than the original GeoShred instruments, because they're easily set up for finger control over dynamics and pitch at the same time.  

 

Audio Modeling is the company who develops SWAM.  They have their own SWAM instrument apps for IOS.   I haven't bought any of those.  My impression is they're best suited for use with hardware MIDI controllers and other controllers external to the app such as sequencers, DAWs, etc.  I like GeoShred for jamming with one-finger expression.

 

One use case I've heard from some people, for composing, is to lay down the desired pitches into your favorite sequencer/DAW using a MIDI keyboard, then overdub MIDI CC for articulations.  This seems to be favored by users coming from a jazz or other improvisational background.  Quite different than the user who wants to write everything out, including articulations with markings like ppp, ff, crescendo, diminuendo, the tremolo symbol, etc., into scoring software such as Notion, and trust the software to play back the instruments with the desired expression.

[Polychrest]

Great stuff.  This kind of articulate, deeply informative discussion is why I keep coming back to this place.  KC College at its best.

[Tusker]

18 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

One use case I've heard from some people, for composing, is to lay down the desired pitches into your favorite sequencer/DAW using a MIDI keyboard, then overdub MIDI CC for articulations.  This seems to be favored by users coming from a jazz or other improvisational background.  Quite different than the user who wants to write everything out, including articulations with markings like ppp, ff, crescendo, diminuendo, the tremolo symbol, etc., into scoring software such as Notion, and trust the software to play back the instruments with the desired expression.

 

Laying down the pitches first is great if you are improvising 3-4 parts (SATB style) in two hands and you want to flow. I used to play pipe organ so that's my 'natural" thing. I am using a swell pedal mapped to expression so it feels alive.

 

Others "see" counterpoint on a staff, which is more precise and gives you more note choices. 👍 👍

 

 

 

 

[GovernorSilver]

5 hours ago, Tusker said:

 

Laying down the pitches first is great if you are improvising 3-4 parts (SATB style) in two hands and you want to flow. I used to play pipe organ so that's my 'natural" thing. I am using a swell pedal mapped to expression so it feels alive.

 

Others "see" counterpoint on a staff, which is more precise and gives you more note choices. 👍 👍

 

 

 

 

 

The person who educated me on the first workflow above is a jazz pianist.  He does indeed prefer to improvise several parts at once into a DAW, then edit after the fact.  He gave GeoShred the old college try but he found managing pitch entry and expression at the same time to be too difficult for his liking, and eventually switched to controlling it by MIDI from his keyboard.  Not sure if he later switched to the SWAM apps.

 

I've played with Notion in IOS.  I have a lot of respect for those who can look at a score and instantly hear, in their heads, the parts as notated.  Since I only do musical activities in my spare time, it came down to a question of how to spend this time - learning Notion, or restoring my modest piano skills, or learning how to use my fun electronic tools or....

 

Once my Osmose arrives, it will be interesting to see how much of the MPE+ capability I will actually use during songwriting, or if I end up turning it all off and reserving it for overdubbing more live-sounding parts.