This may be blasphemous to some, but you couldn't give me a ...........

[Bif_]

Hammond, Leslie, Acoustic Piano, Rhodes, Clav, Vintage Synth, etc. 

 

As much as I'd love having any of those, I have no practical place I could put them. I've played a real Hammond and know there's nothing like a real Leslie. I ABSOLUTELY love playing acoustic piano, because that's what I was brought up on. Even got to regulary play a 9' Baldwin concert grand all during high school. Love both of these, just no place I could put them.

 

I also owned a Rhodes, and while I know it is a wonderful instrument, I have no desire to ever own one again. I love the sound but feel I get what I need through emulations without the muss and fuss of upkeep of the real electromechanical beast. 

 

No desire to own an Arp 2600.....played one of those for several years in college music lab. I remember spending hours patching cables and turning knobs but it didn't amaze me. I know so much more about that now that I'm sure it would be a different experience, but again, no real space to put one. Similar thoughts about many vintage boards, care and feeding for most old synths casts fear in me. Crap, I'm even aware that my old Receptor will bite the dust somewhere along the line. 

 

Yeah, I still am drawn to any of these as well as many new boards, but that's all kept in check by limited space to put them. I also keep coming back to the fact that I really have an overabundance of gear to actually make music, I just need to sit down and do that.

 

[Doerfler]

as for me, I have everything listed in your opening sentence. Different strokes I guess. 

[cassdad]

15 minutes ago, Bif_ said:

Hammond, Leslie, Acoustic Piano, Rhodes, Clav, Vintage Synth, etc. 

 

As much as I'd love having any of those, I have no practical place I could put them. I've played a real Hammond and know there's nothing like a real Leslie. I ABSOLUTELY love playing acoustic piano, because that's what I was brought up on. Even got to regulary play a 9' Baldwin concert grand all during high school. Love both of these, just no place I could put them.

 

I also owned a Rhodes, and while I know it is a wonderful instrument, I have no desire to ever own one again. I love the sound but feel I get what I need through emulations without the muss and fuss of upkeep of the real electromechanical beast. 

 

No desire to own an Arp 2600.....played one of those for several years in college music lab. I remember spending hours patching cables and turning knobs but it didn't amaze me. I know so much more about that now that I'm sure it would be a different experience, but again, no real space to put one. Similar thoughts about many vintage boards, care and feeding for most old synths casts fear in me. Crap, I'm even aware that my old Receptor will bite the dust somewhere along the line. 

 

Yeah, I still am drawn to any of these as well as many new boards, but that's all kept in check by limited space to put them. I also keep coming back to the fact that I really have an overabundance of gear to actually make music, I just need to sit down and do that.

 

I agree with all of this, plus the fact that my digital piano is ALWAYS perfectly in tune.  And I absolutely hate playing an out-of-tune instrument.  The acoustic piano I learned on as a kid was always out of tune.  Once I played my 1st digital, the world of music opened up for me, not only hearing what simple chords should sound like, but also what more complex chords and voicings were possible.  That was all a moot point on a badly out-of-tune acoustic piano.  YMMV.

[Docbop]

One of the pluses of living in a small apartment is no room for a ton of gear.   Actually I still have too many guitars and basses from my previous life that I want to get rid of. I've actually got rid of most my amps.   I did have an acoustic piano taking up lots of space in my apartment for awhile and was much louder than I expected so it's gone now. Acoustic pianos sure I could have ONE, but with my Kronos and Keyscape I have lots of acoustic pianos to choose from every night.    

 

I've learned to love the sound of the digital versions of Rhodes, Whurly, and organs I've taken on the motto of people since the 90's... It's good enough!.   Even back when I started playing guitar we got used to saying... "it's close enough".  We did gigs with one guitar and an amp, maybe a pedal that was it.   The people in the audience didn't care, even gearheads would say... "I can't believe how close to <fill in the blank" you got with just <fill in the blank>.   So having a house, apartment, or storage space full of gear make sense, not really.  Put the time and money in to just playing and digging deeper and deeper into the music itself.  

 

 

[MathOfInsects]

I don't really see any of this as 'either/or.' All of the options are just musical instruments, and in the end we use the tools that work best for the job we need to do (or for the craftspeople are are). 

I have only played a few clavs in my life, almost exclusively in sessions (plus one multi-act backline gig), and I'd love to spend some time with one. I don't think I'd ever add it to my gigging rig, but I think it would color the way I play the "fake" clavs that I DO gig with. 

So in one sense, it would be "better" for me to have one, at least for awhile, and in another, it would be "worse," since I already have one I gig with, built in to the multifunction board I spent all that stupid Swedish-money on.

My organ is in almost every way superior to my organ clone. But my organ clone is in every way superior to the "real" thing in the only one that matters: can/will I gig with it?

Etc. Play what works best for you. I don't think the zero-sum approach really fits the role these boxes play in our lives. They are all plants in the garden.

 

[Docbop]

One of the Jazz guitar legends (sorry I forget who) finish playing and went back to his dressing room and set his guitar on the stand in the corner.    Fans came in do say fan stuff, but one guy was raving how great the guitar sounded.   The legends got ticked all the guy was say was "the guitar".   Legend finally points to the guitar in the corner and says... How's it sound now?  Then walked away.  

 

Bottom line an instrument real or virtual is no better than the person playing it.  

[CowboyNQ]

Very interesting and timely thread for me.

 

I nearly started a thread the other day on a closely related topic - but I must have been distracted by a shiny object and forgotten.  I was going to ask you all if you thought I’d taken leave of my senses.

 

The fates willing - we are travelling about 800km to play a show in a fortnight.  This show is at a major capital city venue and will be multi-track recorded and filmed by six cameras.  I tell you this by way setting the context - it’s a big deal for my little band.

 

I always request an 88 key digital piano from whatever backline company we use when we travel.  On this occasion the company asked if I’d also like a REAL RHODES.  I’ve never even seen one of these (apart from watching international touring bands) let alone played one.

 

Now I do play a few Rhodes sounds and I was thinking how cool it would be to have one on stage for the concert film.  But then Mr Black Hat took control of my mind and I started to think about footprint, ergonomics, weight (we would have to lug to two shows 300km apart), how to submix, the need for an amp or preamp, how to get the right tone, tuning, variability of action quality and I started to get anxious.  So I said no.  I still don’t know if I did the right thing or not.

 

Our guitarist did take them up on their offer of vintage Hiwatt amps though.

 

Back to OP’s proposition.  I think I would happily own (but not tour) all those vintage instruments if I could find, afford and house them.  Which is highly unlikely.  Understanding that a certain amount of maintenance expenditure would have to be budgeted for of course.

[Bif_]

11 minutes ago, CowboyNQ said:

Now I do play a few Rhodes sounds and I was thinking how cool it would be to have one on stage for the concert film.  But then Mr Black Hat took control of my mind and I started to think about footprint, ergonomics, weight (we would have to lug to two shows 300km apart), how to submix, the need for an amp or preamp, how to get the right tone, tuning, variability of action quality and I started to get anxious.  So I said no.  I still don’t know if I did the right thing or not.

 

 

I think you did the right thing. The action on a Rhodes can be awesome, crap, or anything in between. The sound varies greatly dependant on many factors.

 

The worse thing you'd want for this well-documented event is to be fighting with that board.....not something you should have to concentrate on. 

[Bill H.]

31 minutes ago, CowboyNQ said:

 

 

On this occasion the company asked if I’d also like a REAL RHODES.  I’ve never even seen one of these (apart from watching international touring bands) let alone played one.

Bif highlighted one thought - I'll highlight another  I would go as far to say that playing the action of a real Rhodes is an acquired skill that you really don't want to be tackling cold on an important gig. 

[MathOfInsects]

51 minutes ago, Docbop said:

One of the Jazz guitar legends (sorry I forget who) finish playing and went back to his dressing room and set his guitar on the stand in the corner.    Fans came in do say fan stuff, but one guy was raving how great the guitar sounded.   The legends got ticked all the guy was say was "the guitar".   Legend finally points to the guitar in the corner and says... How's it sound now?  Then walked away.  

 

Bottom line an instrument real or virtual is no better than the person playing it.  

I joke about this all time. After the show: "Dude, what kind of keyboard is that? It sounds fantastic." Uh....thanks I guess?

[ksoper]

1 hour ago, Docbop said:

One of the Jazz guitar legends (sorry I forget who) finish playing and went back to his dressing room and set his guitar on the stand in the corner.    Fans came in do say fan stuff, but one guy was raving how great the guitar sounded.   The legends got ticked all the guy was say was "the guitar".   Legend finally points to the guitar in the corner and says... How's it sound now?  Then walked away.  

 

Bottom line an instrument real or virtual is no better than the person playing it.  

Attributed to Chet Atkins. I heard him play live, a fund raiser for a politician. Looper pedals were new and he had big fun with it. 

[KuruPrionz]

15 minutes ago, ksoper said:

Attributed to Chet Atkins. I heard him play live, a fund raiser for a politician. Looper pedals were new and he had big fun with it. 

Long ago, I was reading an interview with Chet Atkins in Guitar Player magazine and he was asked how he felt about The Who and Jimi Hendrix smashing guitars. 

Chet said "Some of them need to be smashed." Still cracks me up 🤣

[KuruPrionz]

And, to the OP - what about an nice, gigantic pipe organ...

[ProfD]

Having the resources and space to house every desired piece of vintage gear is great.

 

The fact that modern technology provides a reasonable facsimile of every piece of vintage gear in one maintenance free box at a relatively affordable price is amazing. 

 

We live in the best of times as it relates to KB-based gear. 😎

[cedar]

After years of lusting after a vintage Hammond and Leslie -- having only owned a Mojo and non-Leslie amps - I finally found the cure to stop longing for those things: Hurricane Ida.

 

After Ida caused considerable damage to my music room and other parts of the house, I was permanently cured of wanting any gear that I cannot move to safety by myself, and with little notice.  When Ida was bearing down, I managed to move all of my gear (with one exception) to an upstairs part of the house, saving most of the gear.

 

The one object I didn't move was my grand piano, which fortunately wasn't damaged (because the water never got high enough to do so).  But the experience really stopped me from browsing through classifieds in search of great deals for gear that I don't absolutely need, and would have difficulty moving on a moment's notice.

[obxa]

I think it's whatever works for you and not blasphemous at all.  In the end it's all just tools, and more importantly- where you use those tools.   Hopefully talent should be first. 

 

Much of my  collection of stuff is because I lusted after it in my younger years and either couldn't afford it, or accumulated it when it was cheaper.  I'm one of those that enjoys still looking at gear, even if I didn't use it.  I do.      Conan O'brien  and Jeff Garlin both have have insane collections of guitars, and don't really play, but I totally get it. 

 

For my obligatory mid-life crisis at 40,  I didn't buy a convertible.  I only briefly did the cliché dating of women way younger than me (bad idea...)  Instead,  started buying  Rhodes, Vox organs,  and other thingies that somehow appeared at prices that were ridiculously better than when I was younger.   I've stumbled on real bargains.   Others, like my OBXa (bought new) and Piano were paid for by loans.  

 

  I have a room full of vintage gear.   Because of deadline and recall issues on projects ( and reliability) I often end up using the virtual stuff.   Many times I find inspiration starting on the originals,  but will then record cleanly with the virtual thing.    I've also rented some gear out for sessions or video shoots.  There was a time when my OB played on more sessions than I did.    The Vox Jag has been in a bunch of music videos and few movies shot down here, where often times they don't even turn it on.  At least it paid for itself.     I'll occasionally drag a Wurli or Rhodes out for some bigger artist shows and ask for B3 when there's backline.   But if I'm humping it;  it's digi stuff all the way.   On stage, I trust a versatile Nord way more than a Wurli.  Those who've endured a "loose solder-broken reed explosion" know what I'm talking about.

 

 Someone wisely said in another thread that buying a Hammond (also applies to  any vintage gear) is a commitment much like having a child.  Older stuff is a royal PITA to keep alive.   But it can be magical - if not always practical.   Sometimes there's both personal and financial return on the investment.  It's not why I bought it, but at some point  I'll  be using some gear to help with retirement.  

 

Cedar brings up a very good point. 

[Doerfler]

13 hours ago, cedar said:

 Hurricane Ida.

I lost the Leslie 145 (and other gear) that was a present for my 16th birthday(1976) to Hurricane Isabel in 2003. I now own a Leslie 142. As I posted earlier, different strokes. My situation is similar to obxa's post above mine. 

[Adan]

Putting synths aside, because I think they deserve their own discussion, my humble opinion is that a "real" instrument presents possibilities for a deeper emotional relationship with the instrument far beyond what anything in the digital realm can provide.  My musical life would have been far less rich if I had not owned the various pianos (3), Hammonds (1), and Rhodes (a bunch) that I did.  

 

Also, for me, there's no true substitute to having an acoustic piano in the house.  Nothing needing amplification can fill a room with warmth in the same way.  Don't have one now, but I'm working on it.

 

But whatever.  This is not an area to judge other people's choices.  Make music any way you can!

[cphollis]

My wife and I went to a classic car show this weekend.  Many beautiful cars.  It was obvious it was a full-time passion to the people who exhibited.  There were more than a few breakdowns to/from the event with plenty of others stopping to help.  I guess it gets down to what you want from your cars.

[stoken6]

I've been weighing this topic up in my head for a while. My guitar buddy asked me: wouldn't you like a real Rhodes? And a tonewheel Hammond? And a clav? And, on the most superficial level, yes I would. But considerations of space, maintenance etc. come into it - not to mention that these instruments would be too much of an effort to gig. (Yes even the clav. I carry a maximum of 2 boards, and they need to pull their weight and be versatile). 

 

On the flipside, there is no way I would give up my acoustic piano. I grew up playing it, and it's part of the family.

 

Cheers, Mike 

[David Emm]

... real Mellotron. I'm sure I don't need to explain why, or what makes a plug-in the far better deal.

 

I've owned a few solid name synths and a certain number of middle-range things, but over time, pragmatism has whittled it down to just a Mac. If maintenance was an issue while an instrument was new, I can't fathom struggling with a white ARP Odyssey or Polymoog now. Several decades does nothing good for anything but wine.

 

Funny thing, but you couldn't give me half of the gear my early heroes had to use, which adds to my gratitude for having software versions that don't go kablooey at showtime. Now if you want to give me your old OB-8, I'll be glad to sell it and use the proceeds for more software. I loved my Wurly. I did not love the broken reeds.😬

[ElmerJFudd]

An ever more apparent conundrum for fans of “real” instruments as digital technology constantly improves upon its ability to impersonate acoustic and electro mechanical timbres and behaviors.  
 

On the one hand you have digital instruments which seek to do it all.  Benefits being a huge reduction in space needed, weight carried, maintenance required.  Down sides being they do a better job on some sounds than others and have one keyboard action and interface for all.  
 

Then you have digital instruments seeking to do just one or a few things well.  Like the Yamaha CP1, Crumar Seven, Mojo, Waldorf Zarenbourg, Viscount Legend, Legend Seventies, Hammond XK5, etc.  The pros are by committing they can capture more of the vibe of the original.  So you have maybe the right action, the right UI, buttons and switches laid out where you expect them to be and functioning in a familiar fashion.  The downside is they tend to be expensive for what timbres they purposefully limit themselves too.  Still less maintenance than the real thing.  Less important, but a thought, how do these digital facsimiles retain their value as digital tech advances and recreations are ever better?  
 

Acoustic pianos are high maintenance but when maintained they sound amazing in the room.  No sample library or current model paired with a speaker setup can really compare.  But if you’re relegated to headphones for practice at home, does it matter?  Electro mechanicals are easier in some ways to replicate by digital means - the organs you can always run through a real Leslie for example and get very close.  Same for Rhodes - a good direct sample library through the right amp can be very fulfilling.  
 

In the end, we work within our means, make our decisions and play.  It’s the playing that matters.  

[GovernorSilver]

I got razzed by a bandmate for not having a real piano in my house.

 

I told him "Ok, genius, tell me where the piano will fit in this small house of mine"

 

He couldn't figure it out.

 

Love being able to move my "couch piano" (Casio CT-S1) as needed - like park it in front of the computer when I want to do an Open Studio follow-along practice session, then quickly unpark it.

[cassdad]

Perhaps slightly off-topic, but…. So, reading all these pros and cons re real vs digital, has really solidified in my mind what is important to me (YMMV):  Good sound, dependability and remain perfectly in tune.  When I’m hired to perform, my rig MUST work properly.  Once I have those 3 criteria covered, then I progress onto weight / size, and then features.  

 

I hear very little here about dependability.  Maybe nowadays it’s just a “given” (which would be good).  But, to me, dependability is a key, critical requirement.  That’s why I’ve always stayed with major brands - I feel they could not stay in business if their boards flaked on gigs.  Just my 2 cents.