Skipped Kronos/Fantom/Montage/etc for Laptop setup

[Sergievsky]

I really wanted one of those workstations to pair with my CP88 piano. But had a hard time justifying the price when I already have a Macbook/ssd with Komplete U/Spectrasonics/Arturia/Spitfire etc. i figured, maybe all I need are some usb knob/fader controllers so it"ll make editing softsynths more fun. I have Gigperformer (&Mainstage) for live gigsâ¦& it"ll make out-of-town/country shows easier. It"s just a matter now of building up the patches & sounds that those workstations can make. Correct? Tell me yesâ¦make me feel better. I don"t need any more $3k keyboards that my aging back can"t lug around anymoreâ¦right? Yes?

[lvercaut]

Yes

But if you are into organ, maybe you also need a waterfall keyboard then.

[Sergievsky]

Yes

But if you are into organ, maybe you also need a waterfall keyboard then.

Well, I think I can put that off for awhile since most of my shows have a 2nd keys who"s a better player than I am. Which is the excuse I needed to get one of NI"s 25th anniv keyboards! ððªð¼ð The white/grey & allwhite keys looked soooo purdy I had to get it! ð¬ Going all in with controller/laptop for the uppertier!

[lvercaut]

The white/grey NI KK is very nice indeed !

[ElmerJFudd]

The au/vst hosts are really powerful and very competitive feature wise with high end workstation. Especially ones like MainStage which come with a boatload of instruments and sounds. And they are infinitely expandable with third party plugins. The cost of the laptop has to be factored in of course when comparing investment against a Kronos or Fantom what have you. You already have it - so that"s a plus.

 

The downside is the cabling and that the controller market is geared toward home studio producers rather than gigging players. The hardware instrument developers tend to save their best actions and pots, encoders, faders, etc. for their full instruments - not their software controller keyboards. So if a quality action is a priority for you the instrument you wind up using as a controller probably has some pretty good useable sounds on it to begin with and you may not need the laptop - (ie. the CP88). But if you"re not picky about action and a light weight plasticy keyboard controller cuts it for you then yeah - the setup makes total sense. Since you already have the CP88 - as a secondary board or knob box - lots of affordable plasticy stuff to pick from.

[drawback]

Congrats on the new retro NI KK. It looks great, and glad you stuck with an upscale controller. The only other one I've seen that could work as well for you is the Arturia Keylab MkII 49/61 â in fact, if you're into organ you might have gone with it, to use the faders as drawbars.

[yannis D]

I'm with you. Years ago, when i was hooked up with a world music artist (and i had to travel for gigs) i went the laptop way without much enthusiasm. Since then, software rigs became so much powerful, almost identical to the hardware ones, and i'm a happy camper. At home i still use my NE5d for smaller gigs, but laptop(s) and ipad(s) become more and more crucial to my gigs. Investing in a good laptop/sound card and some good VSTs (Mainstage, NI, Arturia etc), is always a good investment for me and, soundwise, laptop based rig has nothing to envy of a good Kronos or Nord. The difference is that you still can program your sounds on the fly (even literally... in an airplane ) and have them always with you. It comes very handy, especially if the backup company brings you an old Korg Triton instead of the Nord Stage you've asked for (happened to me once in Spain). Your sounds will always be there. IMO one thing to consider is a hardware controller to adjust knobs, faders etc (like the Korg Nano Controller) and maybe a small 25 or 37 keys (like the Irig keys) to have as a backup/second tier key - and you're set to go.

[David Emm]

One thing you'll never be able to demo virtually is the keys themselves. Most are low-budget nightmares and very few are as inviting as the ones on a Prophet T-8. I would have married the one I demoed if I'd had the bucks!

 

I dare Science to come up with hyper-sensitive sci-fi gloves and a VR headset that let you check out a Sam Ash showroom from your recliner. Otherwise, adapt or die. I'd like a bit more of the Better side, but the great sounds push a lot of that nattering into the background. I won't complain because my flying carpet is the wrong color.

[Sergievsky]

â¦The downside is the cabling and that the controller market is geared toward home studio producers rather than gigging players. The hardware instrument developers tend to save their best actions and pots, encoders, faders, etc. for their full instruments - not their software controller keyboards. So if a quality action is a priority for you the instrument you wind up using as a controller probably has some pretty good useable sounds on it to begin with and you may not need the laptop - (ie. the CP88). But if you"re not picky about action and a light weight plasticy keyboard controller cuts it for you then yeah - the setup makes total sense. Since you already have the CP88 - as a secondary board or knob box - lots of affordable plasticy stuff to pick from.

Cabling is an annoyance, because of samples I need external drives, so along with d laptop, i have the interface, powered TB/USB hub, & 2 tiny nvme drivesâ¦which doesn"t sound like a lot, but its a lotta little cables tangled about, many of which squeezed in to the hub, not to mention that USB-C/TB3 doesn"t really feel all that secure. But still, manageable. As for the keys, I actually already have a normal 49key NI KK, so I know how it feels, I just needed at least a 61 (dunno why they didnt come up with a 76). I would love a 76key waterfall, but again, not really needed & would be a luxuryâ¦one luxury at a time for now ð

 

 

Congrats on the new retro NI KK. It looks great, and glad you stuck with an upscale controller. The only other one I've seen that could work as well for you is the Arturia Keylab MkII 49/61 â in fact, if you're into organ you might have gone with it, to use the faders as drawbars.

I"m checking out some usb fadersâ¦maybe a novation or akai one. But after seeing the DJtechtools midi twister (in matching white!) I now don"t wanna ruin the whole presentation with something so passé as black!ð¤£

 

I'm with you. Years ago, when i was hooked up with a world music artist (and i had to travel for gigs) i went the laptop way without much enthusiasm. Since then, software rigs became so much powerful, almost identical to the hardware onesâ¦â¦â¦. It comes very handy, especially if the backup company brings you an old Korg Triton instead of the Nord Stage you've asked for (happened to me once in Spain). Your sounds will always be there. IMO one thing to consider is a hardware controller to adjust knobs, faders etc (like the Korg Nano Controller) and maybe a small 25 or 37 keys (like the Irig keys) to have as a backup/second tier key - and you're set to go.

Yeah softsynths have really matured quite a bit, & I think I can make my laptop pretty bulletproof when I decide to reinstall everything & really not have ANYTHING ELSE in it except music programs (will do when I get one of the new laptops). As for the supplier bringing the wrong keys, it happens a LOT. So I figured if I come in complete with knobs & faders and just use the supplier"s keyboards for keys, then any mistakes will be minimized. Of course, this adds a lot to my travel bag, which already has an extra pedal because I always seem to end up with a faulty one, but still, lighter than an extra keyboard.

 

 

One thing you'll never be able to demo virtually is the keys themselves. Most are low-budget nightmares and very few are as inviting as the ones on a Prophet T-8. â¦

I"ve always wanted a T-8!ð And yes, it was the keys that made me lust for it. (our age is showing). But actually, it"s really the Oberheim that remains the one synth I wanted(want) the most. So yeah, I have several software emulators of it already (will add some more this black friday ð)

[Reezekeys]

I started using a laptop on gigs 20 years ago, then went full-time with a laptop & controller 15 years ago. Portability and quality of sounds were my motivators. Moving equipment to small gigs in the New York City area is not easy for working musicians â and I also carried two powered PA speakers, since Iike hearing my stereo piano samples in stereo. Following is my perspective and opinions on the best/easiest way to make a laptop rig work - and yea, I know what opinions are like!

 

Cabling is an annoyance, because of samples I need external drives, so along with d laptop, i have the interface, powered TB/USB hub, & 2 tiny nvme drivesâ¦which doesn"t sound like a lot, but its a lotta little cables tangled about, many of which squeezed in to the hub, not to mention that USB-C/TB3 doesn"t really feel all that secure.

 

I used to have an external for samples but my older MacBook Pro has a removable SSD so I upgraded to a 1TB drive and everything is on the internal. I have two MacOS systems, each in their own APFS container - one for my everyday use and one for my gigs, with no extra software other than what's needed to make music. Also, no external interface - I'm good with stereo output so the regular headphone jack works fine. I have options if I need more audio channels - a tiny USB soundcard, and a recently-acquired Peavey box that's a DI with a D-to-A and connects to USB, which I'm using on a tour right now to send percussion loops to the monitors & FOH.

 

As for the keys, I actually already have a normal 49key NI KK, so I know how it feels, I just needed at least a 61 (dunno why they didnt come up with a 76). I would love a 76key waterfall, but again, not really needed & would be a luxuryâ¦one luxury at a time for now ð

 

I made my peace with 61 keys and unweighted action years ago - just have to be quick on those octave switch buttons! My Roland controller has all the buttons, sliders and pads I need, weighs 10 lbs (4.5kg), and they're all assigned to control my sounds. I don't need to look at or touch the laptop during a gig.

 

I"m checking out some usb fadersâ¦maybe a novation or akai one.

 

I carry a Korg Nanokontrol in my laptop bag - it duplicates most of what I do with the pads, buttons & sliders on my Roland keyboard. This is for emergencies if my Roland breaks, or for the time the band I work with had a gig where I couldn't fly with my Roland so needed a rental.

 

Yeah softsynths have really matured quite a bit, & I think I can make my laptop pretty bulletproof when I decide to reinstall everything & really not have ANYTHING ELSE in it except music programs (will do when I get one of the new laptops).

 

My advice would be to get as big an SSD as you can afford, and as I said above, use a separate partition with its own system and nothing on it except the music software you need. On my music partition I don't have any of the Apple cloud stuff enabled and rarely even go online with it. Good luck with whatever you decide!

[Sergievsky]

I used to have an external for samples but my older MacBook Pro has a removable SSD so I upgraded to a 1TB drive and everything is on the internal. I have two MacOS systems, each in their own APFS container - one for my everyday use and one for my gigs, with no extra software other than what's needed to make music. Also, no external interface - I'm good with stereo output so the regular headphone jack works fine. I have options if I need more audio channels - a tiny USB soundcard, and a recently-acquired Peavey box that's a DI with a D-to-A and connects to USB, which I'm using on a tour right now to send percussion loops to the monitors & FOH.

â¦..

My advice would be to get as big an SSD as you can afford, and as I said above, use a separate partition with its own system and nothing on it except the music software you need. On my music partition I don't have any of the Apple cloud stuff enabled and rarely even go online with it. Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

I have a Radial JPC which made my mini 1/8 outs from laptop or ipad playbacks sound great before. But my laptop headphone outs are broken! Didnt want to go w/o it so am using a Motu M4 which is great, plus I"m always sending out a click track to d drummer so I need the extra outs.

My 2 ssd drives are 2TB each, & the internal on my 2019 Macbook is also 2TB. They"re all 3/4 full! But I hear ya about getting the largest internal drive I can getâ¦but holycow man that 8TB M1Max is expensive!ð± I"m now starting to delete sample libraries I dont really use that much tho, so I ill see if I can do with a 4Tb one.

Anyway, tnx for the replies guys, I feel better now 𤣠Those flagship synths are so tempting!

[BRW]

Regarding the subject. What's the best MIDI controller (kb) to interact with plug-ins - controlling soft synths? Meaning lots of pots, sliders and buttons that work "out of the box" somewhat seamlessly? Is there such a thing?

 

NI's Kontrol keyboards are great for their stuff...but I don't think they work any differently with anything else? Arturia's Keystep Pro MKII seems interesting, but it seems to be also catered towards Arturia's stuff, and quite expensive. Arturia's V Collection is a great set, so it's not necessarily a problem.

 

I like to do a "hybrid" setup. Combine hardware and software via Ableton and Push 2.

[johnchop]

NI's Kontrol software supports their "NKS" patch format, which a LOT of other developers have embraced. This will premap significant parameters to the controls.

 

I just find the software fairly limiting (i.e. no multis).

 

I was a big fan of Akai/InMusic's VIP software, but it's abandoned. No VST3 support, no updates to ensure good compatibility and stability with popular VST2 plugins. I felt it did a good job of control mapping.

 

Key for me is mapping the same kind of parameter to the same control: i.e. cutoff is always knob 1, delay mix is always slider 7, etc. This will inevitably require tweaks to "out of the box" mappings.

[Sergievsky]

It might take something like Babylonwaves Art Conductor, a company who wrote thousands of templates of articulation maps for the major DAWsâ¦but for softsynths. Tied to a keyboard full of knobs & sliders & a big effing oled touch sensitive panel of course. ð

But yeah, I think this area of Keyboards still needs to mature. And with the arrival of Apple"s power Arm chips followed I"m sure by Intel"s response, I can"t imagine companies not answering the calls of musicians & producers with what I think they will need keyboard & control-wise. Though it does seem with the kids nowadays it"s less keys playing & more pad-playing & knob-twisting/scene launchingâ¦which I wouldn"t mind if it points to more knobs etc on future productsâ¦just don"t forget the Keys! (I"m lookin" at you KORG ð§ )

[Reezekeys]

I don't need to tweak any synth parameters in my laptop rig. Just turn on & off sounds, recall a few presets, trigger percussion loops, and control volumes. So "premapping" or any kind of mapping is irrelevant to me - I decide which CC# I want to use for whatever control I'm needing, use the "learn" function in my host, done. Nothing against those extra features but I do have the feeling they're not aimed at folks like me that have been working with midi since the early days and have a little experience with programming. And now I'm seeing some keyboards with built-in "intelligence" that even premap your playing to fit a particular scale or key. It's a kind of dumbing down, imo - maybe necessary for these companies to maintain their sales figures, I suppose.