Using Korg CX-3 as controller for B3-X

[MrVegas]

Looking for some guidance on how to connect an iPad with B3-X to my CX-3. I'm looking at the CX-3 manual now to get my head around the midi settings but since I have never tried anything like this I wanted the brain trust of experts on here for some guidance. Tips? Pointers?

[ElmerJFudd]

According to the midi implementation chart, it looks like you"re in luck.

 

The CX-3 transmits CC"s for:

Drawbar 1 *

1 Drawbar 2 *

1 Rotary ON FAST STOP *

1 V/C Select Upper Lower *

1 Percussion ON SOFT FAST 3rd *

1 Upper Drawbar Select *

1 Lower Drawbar Select *

1 Expression *

1 Hold *

1 Wheel Brake *

1 AMP Gain *

1 Reverb Level *

 

And it has 5pin MIDI out

 

So what you need is a midi interface for the iPad.

Which iPad is it? Does it use a lightning connector or the new USB-C style jack?

[MrVegas]

Not sure which iPad (about 3 years old) but it does have a lightning connector. I bought the "camera connector kit" dongle that plugs into the iPad lightning port and it has a standard USB female connector. I also purchased a PreSonus USB96 midi connection box. So the CX-3 midi ports will connect to the PreSonus midi ports.

 

Where I come up empty is understanding what settings on the Korg are in order for it to cancel its own internal sounds and simply play back the sounds of the B3-X.

[Mighty Ferguson]

Not sure which iPad (about 3 years old) but it does have a lightning connector. I bought the "camera connector kit" dongle that plugs into the iPad lightning port and it has a standard USB female connector. I also purchased a PreSonus USB96 midi connection box. So the CX-3 midi ports will connect to the PreSonus midi ports.

 

Where I come up empty is understanding what settings on the Korg are in order for it to cancel its own internal sounds and simply play back the sounds of the B3-X.

 

I believe when I used my CX-3 as a controller for a short stint a few years ago, I set up a preset patch with the sound off. Then I used that patch whenever I used it to control an external sound source. I believe there was a patch volume parameter - maybe it was part of the amp settings?

[drawback]

Not sure which iPad (about 3 years old) but it does have a lightning connector. I bought the "camera connector kit" dongle that plugs into the iPad lightning port and it has a standard USB female connector. I also purchased a PreSonus USB96 midi connection box. So the CX-3 midi ports will connect to the PreSonus midi ports.

 

Where I come up empty is understanding what settings on the Korg are in order for it to cancel its own internal sounds and simply play back the sounds of the B3-X.

 

I believe when I used my CX-3 as a controller for a short stint a few years ago, I set up a preset patch with the sound off. Then I used that patch whenever I used it to control an external sound source. I believe there was a patch volume parameter - maybe it was part of the amp settings?

 

If you're not using its local sound for organ anyway, don't connect its output jacks.

[ElmerJFudd]

Not sure which iPad (about 3 years old) but it does have a lightning connector. I bought the "camera connector kit" dongle that plugs into the iPad lightning port and it has a standard USB female connector. I also purchased a PreSonus USB96 midi connection box. So the CX-3 midi ports will connect to the PreSonus midi ports.

 

Where I come up empty is understanding what settings on the Korg are in order for it to cancel its own internal sounds and simply play back the sounds of the B3-X.

 

Ok, Camera Connection Kit gives you an USB A port. But you won"t need it if you pickup a Korg Plugkey.

 

https://www.korg.com/us/products/computergear/plugkey/

[MrVegas]

I am refreshing this topic because I have decided (after six months) that I definitely want to use my CX-3 to control B3-X on an iPad.

 

Here's what I have as far as equipment goes:

1. Korg CX-3 (second generation with midi)

2. iPad with lightning connector (with B3-X software)

3. Key Largo mixer

4. PreSonus USB96 midi connection box

5. Korg Plug-key (bought about a year ago and now I can't find it)

 

What I want is to use the CX-3 keys to play the sounds from the B3-X software.  I plan to use the iPad to adjust drawbars, pre-sets, Leslie speed, etc.

 

With that said, I guess I still need to connect iPad to CX-3 with the midi connection box?

 

 

 

 

[D. Gauss]

that beast is like 35 or 40 lbs isn't it?  seems like a big haul just to trigger an ipad organ.

[Morrissey]

19 minutes ago, D. Gauss said:

that beast is like 35 or 40 lbs isn't it?  seems like a big haul just to trigger an ipad organ.

I miss my CX3 sometimes.  Definitely wasn't the lightest clone but the layout and the cosmetics were faithful.

 

I don't fully understand @MrVegas's use case, and I'm probably less discerning than most about my organ tone, but a CX3 with a real spinning horn (MS KBR3D from his sig) sounds pretty satisfying to me.  

[MrVegas]

My CX-3 is permanently positioned at my church, don't ever have to move it around.

 

My Motion Sound is no longer in use.  

 

I have it in my head that the sound engine in the B3-X will just sound better.  I just need help from people who understand how to connect this rig together... do I need midi, do I need to adjust midi settings inside the CX-3 even if I don't use drawbars, how to connect iPad to the Key Largo, etc. etc.

[mythias]

I do this now using an old Korg CX-3 with standard MIDI plugs into a USB MIDI box and into my Windows laptop running Gig Performer and B-3X.  I have a rackspace created duplicating the button layout of my Korg so I can control everything in B-3X using the Korg's buttons (at least the ones that are relevant.)  Works like a charm.  I love the Korg's keybed but the 20 year old software doesn't hold up to B-3X.
 

I do not know if it is different for an ipad due the lack of USB plugs, but what I do is: Korg plugged into USB MIDI box, USD MIDI into Laptop, B-3X sees the MIDI controller as a device, use it to learn the MIDI commands you want for each button and drawbar.  Then also have your sound output device plugged in and working.  On my laptop I have multiple USB ports so plugging in my MIDI box and my audio interface and my second keyboard for lower manual isn't a problem.

 

It is definitely doable.  I love it.

[MrVegas]

3 hours ago, mythias said:

I have a rackspace created duplicating the button layout of my Korg so I can control everything in B-3X using the Korg's buttons (at least the ones that are relevant.

 

It is definitely doable.  I love it.

 

Thanks for your input Mythias.

 

I don't understand what you mean by rackspace.  What is that?

[conundrum]

https://gigperformer.com/rackspaces-vs-program-changes/

[MrVegas]

this seems too complicated for me.  it might be a great solution for those with the ability to understand it and implement it.  I was hoping for a simpler solution.  maybe I just need to save up for a Hammond Sk or Xk and forget about this approach.

 

[stoken6]

Add a vent?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[funkyhammond]

18 hours ago, MrVegas said:

this seems too complicated for me.  it might be a great solution for those with the ability to understand it and implement it.  I was hoping for a simpler solution.  maybe I just need to save up for a Hammond Sk or Xk and forget about this approach.

 

 

I think the responses just assumed you understood some of this stuff. Forget the mention of gigperformer and rackspaces. 

 

I think where it gets a bit complicated is with the connections to the iPad. Basically, you need the MIDI Out of the CX-3 to get to the iPad while the audio out of the iPad goes somewhere.

 

It looks like the The Key Largo is not compatible with iPad/iPhone: https://www.radialeng.com/product/key-largo/faq

But the Presonus should be: https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/articles/360059975732-PreSonus-Hardware-iOS-iPadOS-Compatibility

 

So...

 

- Connect the MIDI Out of the CX-3 to the MIDI In of the Presonus

- Connect the USB of the Presonus to the iPad Lightning USB jack

- Connect the main audio out on the back of the Presonus to your sound system or test with the headphone jack

- Run the B-3X app on the iPad and make sure it is on the screen

 

If things are working, you should be able to play some notes on the CX-3 and get notes triggered in the B-3X.

That is the main step to get working before proceeding with anything else.

 

After that, you can also try to map the controls, if you want. The main one is the expression pedal, but that might already be mapped correctly by default. In general, there should be a "learn" mode in B-3X. Maybe if you "long press" (hold for a few seconds) any of the controls on the screen? Or in a menu. (Sorry, I don't have an iPad. There are people on here that do, though.) When you put a control in learn mode, then you just need to move the corresponding control on the CX-3 that you want to map to that and the app will make the connection. For example, put one of the drawbars in B-3X in learn mode and then move the corresponding drawbar on the CX-3. You need to go through all the controls like that to map them all. Do the same for all the switches, the leslie switch, overdrive/gain knob, etc. If a switch mapping comes out reversed (on is off), there should be a way in B-3X to reverse the mapping. It's great once everything is all done and then you don't have to worry about it again.

 

If anything still seems a bit too technical, I'd try to find someone you know that is a bit more familiar with computers to help you. Once things are all set up and working, it should be hassle-free after that. 

 

[MrVegas]

OMG, this is amazing funkyhammond.  Very helpful.  Thanks!

 

[funkyhammond]

6 hours ago, MrVegas said:

OMG, this is amazing funkyhammond.  Very helpful.  Thanks!

 

 

I just realized I might have misunderstood something. Do you have some kind of Lightning to USB adapter for the iPad? If you do, post a link to what you have exactly.

 

I think if you want to keep the iPad charged while using B-3X, you'll need the USB 3 Camera adapter: https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter

 

You can see that it has one lightning port for the charger and then a USB port on the left. That USB port is what will connect to the more square USB port on the Presonus. You will just need a standard USB 2.0 computer cable for that:  https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-USB-2-0-Cable-Male/dp/B00NH11KIK/ref=sr_1_4?crid=14S1WE573JV3&keywords=usb+cable&qid=1652328904&sprefix=usb+printer+cable%2Caps%2C2278&sr=8-4

 

EDIT: Actually the Korg Plug Key would be all that you need if you can find it (except you would not be able to charge the iPad while using it). However, you will probably get better sound quality using the Presonus audio interface and then with the USB 3 Camera adapter, you'll also be able to keep the iPad charged.

[MrVegas]

Hey, I have a new variable to introduce to this challenge of how to play the B3-X sounds using the CX-3 as controller.

 

Ditch the iPad and it's limitations.  I just discovered that my Dell XPS windows 11 laptop has a touch screen!  Hallelujah!

 

Now, I guess I will connect the USB of the Presonus to the Dell USB?

[funkyhammond]

4 hours ago, MrVegas said:

Hey, I have a new variable to introduce to this challenge of how to play the B3-X sounds using the CX-3 as controller.

 

Ditch the iPad and it's limitations.  I just discovered that my Dell XPS windows 11 laptop has a touch screen!  Hallelujah!

 

Now, I guess I will connect the USB of the Presonus to the Dell USB?

 

Yes. It will be easier to get things connected with a laptop. You'll also be able to more easily connect anything to use as a controller since you will now have multiple USB ports on the laptop. That's all assuming you don't run into any issues with device drivers (fingers crossed).

 

You'll need to buy B-3X again for Windows but you can just demo it first for 7 days and make sure you can get everything working. You do that by downloading the IK Product Manager from the website (which you need to have anyway) and then requesting the demo version of B-3X from within there. 

 

First, just test out the Presonus by getting a USB 2.0 computer cable and connecting it to your Dell. Windows should detect it and set it up as an audio interface automatically. At that point you should be good to go.

 

Download the demo of B-3X through the IK Product Manager. Start up B-3X. You should be able to already play B-3X from the on screen keyboard and the audio should be going through the laptop speakers. You need to tell B-3X to use the Presonus as the interface. Go into the B-3X menu settings for audio device. There will be a list and the Presonus should be in that list. And there should be something similar for MIDI devices. Choose the Presonus and then things should all be set. The audio should now be coming out of the audio and headphone outputs on the back of the Presonus. You should also now be able to plug any MIDI keyboard (including the C3-X) into the MIDI of the Presonus and the B-3X should play. 

 

 

 

[kaptainkeys]

Just now, funkyhammond said:

First, just test out the Presonus by getting a USB 2.0 computer cable and connecting it to your Dell. Windows should detect it and set it up as an audio interface automatically. At that point you should be good to go.

The only thing I would say is see if PreSonus has an ASIO driver for that interface, if not, download ASIO4ALL.  Some VSTs, especially standalone, don't play (no pun intended) nicely with the default Windows drivers.  Using the default drivers you might get results ranging from somewhat playable (albeit with latency) to a really long key liftoff delay, or it might not even work at all.

[funkyhammond]

9 minutes ago, GotKeys said:

The only thing I would say is see if PreSonus has an ASIO driver for that interface, if not, download ASIO4ALL.  Some VSTs, especially standalone, don't play (no pun intended) nicely with the default Windows drivers.  Using the default drivers you might get results ranging from somewhat playable (albeit with latency) to a really long key liftoff delay, or it might not even work at all.

 

Yup, I was just trying to take things one step at a time not to overwhelm MrVegas. Hopefully, the Presonus will have its own driver or work fine as a class-compliant audio device. I think ASIO4ALL might get too technical for our friend here.