New Studiologic Numa X Piano

[Stan Martin]

I've just been playing the NumaX new "Stage D" for a little while after I had upgraded to the latest OS.

 

Just outstanding

 

The range of dynamics from dark pianissimo to FF shows that there is extensive multilayering of the samples.  I turned up the string res, and you hear it when you hold a bass note and play different different notes with the right hand. You can hear the right hand notes continuing to resonate after the note has been let go.  Especially if I am playing the same note in the midrange - for example, lower A in bass, A440 with the right hand.  

[AnotherScott]

On 1/15/2024 at 5:31 AM, rtme said:

When you release one of the keys just a tiny bit (like 1 mm or so), the "note off" is already triggered for this key. Which means when you play a bit sloppy (or when your hand is spread out because you play notes in two octaves), and you release the key a tiny bit the sounds is gone. I could live with it as it could be related to bad technique, but a little bit more slack would be nice (other keybeds have a slack from 3 to even 5 mm).

 

After the new update which enabled the third sensor same-note retriggering, the final release point now seems high.

 

Back to the topic of comparing the Numa X to the Yamaha CP73, I finally got a chance to directly compare the actions of the Numa X 73 and the Yamaha YC73 (same action as CP73).

 

Overall, I think they are kind of similar, at least to the extent that if you love or hate one, I doubt you'd feel tremendously different about the other.

 

Out of the box, to me, they both suffer from feeling "dead" when trying to really lay into the pianos. Yamaha provided a fix for this in YC/CP updates which provided additional user touch sensitivity parameters, and the Numa has something comparable, a keyboard sensitivity parameter. Once I boosted that on the Numa, it basically solved the problem similarly to how those additional parameters solved the problem on the Yamaha. To me, it doesn't make them feel great, but it makes them acceptable. One big difference here is that on the Numa it is a global setting, on the Yamaha it is saved with each Live Set.

 

I'd say the Yamaha feels a touch lighter, but it's hard to quantify this. The Yamaha has a very light initial travel, and then a heavier resistance kicks in (almost like a slight bit of an escapement simulation). Yamaha also has a deeper travel... some people might prefer that, some might prefer the Numa's shorter travel, The Yamaha has a bit of return bounce, the Numa does not. Playing passages with quick "wakeman-style" trills (without sustain pedal) seem smoother on the Numa... I suppose the lesser bounce, the third sensor, the smaller total travel, or even the reported Yamaha issue with quick repeats losing volume (particularly on black keys) could all be factors.

 

When playing the YC73 piano sounds from the Numa, I felt they played better from the Numa's keys than from the YC73's own keys (and my preferred YC pianos played from the Numa X also sound better to me than playing Numa X's own pianos). So I would have no qualms about the previously discussed idea of pairing a Numa X piano with a YC61. The YC61+Numa X combo would play better than a YC73 alone for both pianos and organ (playing the latter on the YC61's keys). And you'd get some bonuses, like triple sensor, aftertouch, Numa's own sounds (which can fill some Yamaha gaps), better MIDI zone controls, and a controller that sends release velocity. Of course, the combination of the YC61+Numa X is pricier than a YC73, and if you still need some other board in your rig (i.e. something more workstation-like), you'd be up to three boards instead of two.

[CHarrell]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

When playing the YC73 piano sounds from the Numa, I felt they played better than from the YC73's own keys (and my preferred YC pianos played from the Numa X also sound better to me than playing Numa X's own pianos). So I would have no qualms about the previously discussed idea of pairing a Numa X piano with a YC61. The YC61+Numa X combo would play better than a YC73 alone for both pianos and organ (playing the latter on the YC61's keys). And you'd get some bonuses, like triple sensor, aftertouch, Numa's own sounds (which can fill some Yamaha gaps), better MIDI zone controls, and a controller that sends release velocity. Of course, the combination of the YC61+Numa X is pricier than a YC73, and if you still need some other board in your rig (i.e. something more workstation-like), you'd be up to three boards instead of two.

 

Overall I think both fill a very similar niche, with the YC having a broader sound palette due to its organ and FM engine, and both have very similar gaps in what they can't provide, so I don't know how effective a pair those two would make if you're thinking about efficiency of setup and bank account.

[DeltaJockey]

So, I decided to purchase a Numa X 73 to provide a tabletop addition to my GT. I've very happy with it as expected. I've noticed though, an interesting quirk, possibly from the firmware upgrade, but have yet to try it on the GT.

I discovered that I get double note offs consistently but it seems to come in and out in batches. I've been playing around with ways to octave shift. As it doesn't have dedicated buttons for this. I saved 2 zones as MIDI USB out's, for sending to DAW, one with an octave shift down, as that's the direction I use most.

I thought at first I'd left both zones on, which would do it, but I discovered that even with all zones off, meaning no note on's, I still get 2 note offs, which the double offs is eliminated by a reboot. Then switching between zones brings it back again, even a program with only internals sounds and no MIDI zone still does it.

Wondered if anyone else might see this, otherwise sounds like a query for Gianni.

 

 

...sorry, this is probably in the wrong thread. It's not a topic of Numa and Organ functionality, I can't seem to delete posts anymore.

[AnotherScott]

19 hours ago, CHarrell said:

Overall I think both fill a very similar niche, with the YC having a broader sound palette due to its organ and FM engine, and both have very similar gaps in what they can't provide, so I don't know how effective a pair those two would make if you're thinking about efficiency of setup and bank account.

Yes, you could get a cheaper, more versatile, and even lighter combo by combining the Numa X with e.g. a Fantom-06, which still gives you an above average "almost-clonewheel." But if your needs are such that your primary goal for a 2nd-tier is organ, I like the YC61 option. At less cost and less weight, the Roland VR-09 could work, though its action, organ sound/functionality, and drawbar spacing/feel are lesser. The super-light and compact Hammond M-Solo could be an option (and is arguably just the kind of thing it's designed for), though again I prefer the YC's action, and the M-Solo does require that you be okay with 4 octaves and no ability to use the Numa beneath as a second manual. I haven't played a Mojo61 but it should have a great action, and still be cheaper than the YC... the trade-off on that one being that it's about 25 lbs instead of 15 (almost the same weight as the Numa X, actually). And the YC does add some nice perks of its own over any of those others, like drawbar LEDs, and additional nice pianos/EPs you can drive from the Numa (the Mojo also has nice EPs, though AFAIK you can't drive them externally while using its own keys for organ). So while I agree that it is not likely to be someone's choice based on versatility or economy, I could still see it being the option some players might most enjoy. Which leads me to a related topic I'll probably post about. 🙂 Though no choice here is without compromise... the YC61 action lacks high trigger. It's always something...

[counterpoint]

17 hours ago, CHarrell said:

 

Overall I think both fill a very similar niche, with the YC having a broader sound palette due to its organ and FM engine, and both have very similar gaps in what they can't provide, so I don't know how effective a pair those two would make if you're thinking about efficiency of setup and bank account.

It's a fair point, however, it does work well for me as compared to, say just having a YC 73.  The Numa X 73 and YC61 pair...and separate well.  For certain gigs it nice to have the real estate of two keyboards with both weighted and semi-weighted actions available.  I'm sure there are many other combos that would achieve this too...but this one has never left me short on covering anything...especially when you can so easily pair each with computer/IPad sounds.  I've used them both separately as well depending on the situation.  The combo at about $3,400 street price is less than 2/3 of the price of a Nord Stage 4.

[AnotherScott]

7 hours ago, counterpoint said:

The Numa X 73 and YC61 pair...and separate well. 

Good point about using them separately as well. I'm not generally a one-board person, but if I were in a situation where I wanted one light board to cover the basics (pianos, EPs, organ, and a smattering of other common sounds), the YC61 might be my choice. I don't think there's anything lighter than its 15-ish lbs that would work for me for both piano and organ (whether because of sound, action, or controls). I think the only way I might be able to put together anything lighter would be to pair something with an iPad.

 

ETA: actually, in terms of user interface and overall flexibility, the lighter (and cheaper) CK61 mostly beats the YC61 as a single-board gigger, but if you're usage is largely pianos and organs, the YC is so much more enjoyable to play! If the YC could cover what I needed, that's what I'd prefer.

 

But anyway, yeah, I think the point is a good one... that sometimes assembling "a pair" might not only be about how they complement each other, but also about what they can offer when used individually, for different circumstances.

[RandyFF]

Now that Numa has their sweet piano engine upgrade as well as a darling favorite in the new Stage D, does this change overall desirability for many of you compared to the Yamaha YC and PC boards which are compared to the Numas so often.  Here's to hoping the Numa Piano series will get portamento and more synth controls, and the ability to map AT to more than vibrato.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Numa Piano does NOT have universally available cutoff/resonance, piano sounds have Tone and Resonance instead.  I heard one time a while ago that Gianni and co were ultimately planning on more editing menus for the X Pianos, which is after all extremely limited.  Good amount and quality of fx and EQ though, and having 3 switch/continuous pedal options is pretty sweet!

 

Am wondering now, with the new, cheaper Compact X SE having dedicated drawbars and organ controls and apparently an upgraded Leslie sim, if that board outdoes the Numa Piano series for organ-?  If I was to buy again, I'd be tempted, but overall I prefer weighted keys, but sure would love the drawbars/controls for organ on these budget boards.

[RandyFF]

HELP!

Am updating the firmware to 2.4, I've updated this board several times in the past year, no problem. 

 

At the moment however it's showing the requisite FIRMWARE UPDATE MODE on the Numa, but Update Progress has stayed at 0%, and it's been close to 5 min already.  There is a corresponding screen in the Numa Manager (1.6) which says, FIRMWARE UPDATE MODE, shows the name of the file, and says "UPDATING".  

 

There are no ways of pausing/interrupting/stopping this process that I see, and am worried about force stopping it, that I might brick my board! On the Numa screen it says, DO NOT DISCONNECT OR TURN OFF YOUR INSTRUMENT.

 

The only thing I see that is out of order is that I had inadvertently downloaded multiple copies of the 2.4 firmware, and this copy of it is marked as (1), in addition to the rest of its name.

 

Advice?  Just fired off a letter to Gianni.  Hopefully having it stuck at UPDATING is something it can do for an extended period of time while I field ideas.  I turned off the screen sleep function and have it plugged in.

[Kentkeys]

3 hours ago, RandyFF said:

HELP!

Am updating the firmware to 2.4, I've updated this board several times in the past year, no problem. 

 

At the moment however it's showing the requisite FIRMWARE UPDATE MODE on the Numa, but Update Progress has stayed at 0%, and it's been close to 5 min already.  There is a corresponding screen in the Numa Manager (1.6) which says, FIRMWARE UPDATE MODE, shows the name of the file, and says "UPDATING".  

 

There are no ways of pausing/interrupting/stopping this process that I see, and am worried about force stopping it, that I might brick my board! On the Numa screen it says, DO NOT DISCONNECT OR TURN OFF YOUR INSTRUMENT.

 

The only thing I see that is out of order is that I had inadvertently downloaded multiple copies of the 2.4 firmware, and this copy of it is marked as (1), in addition to the rest of its name.

 

Advice?  Just fired off a letter to Gianni.  Hopefully having it stuck at UPDATING is something it can do for an extended period of time while I field ideas.  I turned off the screen sleep function and have it plugged in.

I had a similar problem until I unplugged a USB hub that was connected to my laptop. The update then went OK. (I can’t remember whether I restarted the whole process, but I think I did.) 

[RandyFF]

Alls good- mostly followed the suggestions from the Bing AI: I first turned off the keyboard, then plugged my USB-A cable into another jack on my laptop, made sure the download of 2.4 was not one of the extra numbered ones I accidentally downloaded, and after that it went smoothly.  

 

Gianni got back to me with much the same advice.  Good to know he’s there!

 

Any tips/clues as to how to appreciate / hear the difference this new string resonance makes?  It was already one of my favorite things about this board, using a sweep pedal instead of a half-damper and being able to dial in this ‘effect’ moment by moment.

 

Really enjoying the Stage D.  One of my Presets I use a 2d Stage D an octave lower, I like it in some ways even better than the Latin Piano trick of using a 2d piano an octave up.

 

@Ken,

Thanks!  It looks like these boards do NOT brick up if you shut them off while updating the firmware- good to know!

[voxpops]

1 hour ago, RandyFF said:

It looks like these boards do NOT brick up if you shut them off while updating the firmware- good to know!

 

I'd be very cautious about that. It sounds like yours hadn't actually started the update (stuck at 0%), but if it had crashed at, say, 50% it might have been a different story!