Live Performance in the Age of Covid

[Notes_Norton]

True, Diphtheria, Smallpox, Polio, Tetanus, and other vaccines are no longer new, but they were brand new when they were first administered. They have done a good job with no serious problems. New vaccines have a very good track record so far.

 

mRNA technology isn't new, it's been around since 1989. The first human clinical trials were done in 2001. What's so new about that? Of course, if you listen to certain propaganda outlets pretending to be news, you would think the mRNA vaccines will put the Bill Gates Tracking Chip in you, make you sterile, send you straight to hell when you die, or any other falsehood the propaganda outlet wants to feed the gullible.

 

mRNA vaccines have now been tested on millions of people, who so far have had negligible ill effects. On the other hand, catching COVID had definitely had multitude of ill effects, including death or permanent organ injury.

 

The anti-vax logic is flawed. They don't trust the vaccines but are willing to inject bleach, or take horse de-wormers and anti-malaria drugs.

 

How does that make sense? It doesn't to me.

 

IMO it's just an anti-vax cult now. Even their former leaders who either die or now advise the cult members to get vaccinated have no effect on the we-won't cult.

 

And I don't believe they should be forced, but if they aren't vaccinated, I do not believe if they aren't vaccinated they should be able to go to concerts, to restaurants, in airplanes, to churches, in taxis, or anywhere else in public.

 

And the mask is a little inconvenience.

 

Any business should have the right to ask people to show proof of vaccination and require a mask worn for admittance. That's freedom and liberty.

 

And the propaganda outlets pretending to be news keep telling us the vaccines hurt the economy. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

 

If we didn't have the vaccines, the economy would have probably taken a much bigger hit than it has now. People would still be deathly afraid to go anywhere, including to work, as the death toll would be many times as high as it is now.

 

https://theconversation.com/the-4-trillion-economic-cost-of-not-vaccinating-the-entire-world-154786

 

So by not vaccinating, those people are harming the economy.

 

And to get back on topic, when the anti-vax, anti-mask cult refuses to either conform or stay out of the public, it hurts the economy and especially the livelihood of live, performing, musicians.

 

Notes â«

[Greg Mein]

Sigh. I don't want to sound like an anti vaxxer because I certainly am not that.

 

Bob

 

It's fascinating to me how such shallow and meaningless terms (in current times including; "anti-vax", anti-mask", "anti-science") are so effective at controlling the dialog and immediately putting independent thinkers on the defensive, ie; not adhering to the status quo makes you my opponent or even worse, enemy. Such totalitarian techniques have been used to great effect throughout history. The Spanish Inquisition comes to mind; repent and see Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior or we shall rip you apart at your limbs. It gives people a sense of moral and intellectual superiority, accompanied by a total lack of humility, based solely upon what they've been led to believe.

 

One could also argue that it should be obvious to "modern people" why manipulating the population with fear and divisiveness is a go to for the ruling class. The lust they have for control, authority and power is already strong or extreme and any opportunity to gain more is impossible to resist.

Perhaps no matter how educated or technically advanced a society becomes, certain fundamental elements of human nature will never change?

[Anderton]

It's fascinating to me how such shallow and meaningless terms (in current times including; "anti-vax", anti-mask", "anti-science") are so effective at controlling the dialog and immediately putting independent thinkers on the defensive, ie; not adhering to the status quo makes you my opponent or even worse, enemy.

 

In general, people want simple answers, and labels provide that function. However, they don't take nuance into account. When I was moderating the political forum on Harmony Central, the conservatives thought I was a liberal, and the liberals thought I was a conservative. That's because I looked at things on a case-by-case basis, not through a particular political lens that told me what I "should" think.

 

To confuse matters further, some people are anti- [fill in the blank] but they restrict their "anti-ness" to specific situations. We had a right-wing radio host here in Nashville named Phil Valentine, who I listened to a lot because he had a great sense of humor. He was not "anti"-vaccine, he even touted it as something those at risk should get. But, he was anti-vax for himself. His reasoning was that there could be a risk to taking the vaccine, so he was better off not getting it because he truly believed he wouldn't get covid, or if he did, it would just be like a bad case of the flu. He was also thought the hysteria surrounding vaccination was ridiculous. So he was labelled as anti-vax but it was a more nuanced position than just that.

 

Unfortunately, he died of covid, and in the process of dying urged everyone to get vaccinated. So what label do you put on him? I'd choose neither pro- or anti-vax, but arrogant - because he believed he and most people would be unaffected by covid. If you're in denial and think it's no big deal, of course you're going to think people getting hysterical about it are idiots. But if you had a healthy, 30-year-old friend with no underlying conditions die of it, you're going to think anyone who doesn't get vaccinated is an idiot.

[KuruPrionz]

It's fascinating to me how such shallow and meaningless terms (in current times including; "anti-vax", anti-mask", "anti-science") are so effective at controlling the dialog and immediately putting independent thinkers on the defensive, ie; not adhering to the status quo makes you my opponent or even worse, enemy.

 

In general, people want simple answers, and labels provide that function. However, they don't take nuance into account. When I was moderating the political forum on Harmony Central, the conservatives thought I was a liberal, and the liberals thought I was a conservative. That's because I looked at things on a case-by-case basis, not through a particular political lens that told me what I "should" think.

 

To confuse matters further, some people are anti- [fill in the blank] but they restrict their "anti-ness" to specific situations. We had a right-wing radio host here in Nashville named Phil Valentine, who I listened to a lot because he had a great sense of humor. He was not "anti"-vaccine, he even touted it as something those at risk should get. But, he was anti-vax for himself. His reasoning was that there could be a risk to taking the vaccine, so he was better off not getting it because he truly believed he wouldn't get covid, or if he did, it would just be like a bad case of the flu. He was also thought the hysteria surrounding vaccination was ridiculous. So he was labelled as anti-vax but it was a more nuanced position than just that.

 

Unfortunately, he died of covid, and in the process of dying urged everyone to get vaccinated. So what label do you put on him? I'd choose neither pro- or anti-vax, but arrogant - because he believed he and most people would be unaffected by covid. If you're in denial and think it's no big deal, of course you're going to think people getting hysterical about it are idiots. But if you had a healthy, 30-year-old friend with no underlying conditions die of it, you're going to think anyone who doesn't get vaccinated is an idiot.

 

And maybe (...certainly!) we are all idiots in our own ways.

 

Back to gigs. On New Years Eve I will go with the former drummer of the last band and listen to what is left of that band playing at a place almost on the Canadian Border that requires masks and proof of vaccination.

I will be glad to listen and not play, no regrets at this point. The band will build into something new, I was feeling a bit stale musically and have a different kind of crazy booked but not scheduled yet for a couple of recording sessions.

 

This will be completely new music to all of us, a spontaneous eruption of sorts. I've chosen my favorite bassist that I've ever gigged with, a drummer I've worked with for 10 years and a remarkable young lady who sings, plays cello, guitar, keys and percussion and is totally fearless about improvising. I need a break from playing "bar band guitar", it's time to split the Universe up with molecular dissonance!

 

And, maybe we will gig at some point...

[Anderton]

it's time to split the Universe up with molecular dissonance!

 

Does CERN know about this?!?

[KuruPrionz]

it's time to split the Universe up with molecular dissonance!

 

Does CERN know about this?!?

 

They may notice something at some point. "Forewarned is like having four arms," ~ Kelly Bundy

 

I was in two total improv bands in Fresno - the original Vortexans (not the punk band that used the name later) and Las Vegas On Mars.

The Vortexans was 3 or 4 pieces depending. I played bass. The guitarist got a couple of chunks of high-output bridge saddle pickup material from Dean Markley when the product first came out.

I made a nut pickup for both his guitar and my bass. We ran those into discrete systems so we could play either or both ends of the guitar. Tapping created 2 notes at once, one on either side of the 2 frets you tapped between.

The guitarist called the notes from the fretboard to the nut "the logarithmic inverse of the tempered scale", I called them "the notes that are wrong". Either way, after some stacked pitch shifting, looping and slowing down or speeding up various bits and dabs from both sides of the string, nobody knew who was playing what.

 

We never practiced or discussed anything about what we were about to do. We just started in and let it happen.

 

Las Vegas on Mars was a bit different, the founder and leader was a "music lawyer" in Los Angeles so he kept informed regarding "tribute albums" that were pending and we submitted songs to these projects.

We got our "medley" on a Moby Grape tribute album called Mo' Grape and the review I read said "And Las Vegas on Mars must have taken the brown acid."

We also got our mangled and unrecognizable version of Eight Miles High on a Gene Clark tribute album. I played the bassists Rickenbacker 12 string and did enough of the signature lick to prompt recognition, then all bets were off.

 

Those were fun bands and some of the music was amazing (yes, some of it was unbelievably bad too, the risk of taking risks with Art).

I'm hoping for something similar, I miss that sort of creative freedom. Katie and I have had some fun jams so I know she will be perfect. This time I'd like a heavy, funky groove going down. The bassist played in the Motown Cruisers when I did and he could fill a dance floor with relentless move-groove bass every time.

 

I think I might have something here. Worst case, I will laugh my ass off.

[Jazzmammal]

Sounds like you've had an interesting musical adventure and you're about to go on another one. Sounds great to me, good on you man.

 

I love gigging, been doing it for 50 years and will continue doing it until I literally can't do it any more. I've been a proponent of the "Roar of the greasepaint, smell of the crowd" thing all my life. Notes has spelled it out many times here, it's the second most fun you can have in life, performing in front of good crowd. If I die on stage, I'm cool with that I just hope dragging the body out doesn't stop the party...

 

The Omicron variant is raging right now including the vaccinated but so far there's no differentiation between two shot vacinnated and the three shot folks. The transmissiblity of this thing seems off the charts but the symptoms also seem to be pretty mild. Among the vaccinated at least, still not much reporting bettween us and the unvaxxed either. I believe strongly in science, I believe strongly everybody should get vaxxed. I got the first two shots excactly a year ago, early November followed by late December. The day the VA emailed me to say I was eligible for the booster I got it along with the flu shot. I have a big yacht club gig coming up next week for NYE. No news about possible cancellation so I'm doing it. Yes I do have a little bit iof trepidation in the back of my mind because if Omicron is there, I think there's good chance I'll get it and that goes for all of us. I think the chances of catching it has gone way up but I'm not cancelling my life over it but everybody has to make their own decision about this. Three shots is what I'm going with and if you guys never hear from me again on this forum well, maybe it didn't work out so well, who knows?

 

All this discussion about COVID, the government and all that crap is basically fun for me. I like doing it, I really like reading everybody's opinion on it and I sincerely try to not make too much out of it. This is a forum where people can share ideas without getting called names, belittled or slammed it's a pretty civilized discussion here. We all have opinions and that's perfectly normal, we're all friends here or could be. I strongly believe if we all got together in a big room full of instruments we would have a great time jamming it out.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everybody!

 

Bob

[Anderton]

I really like reading everybody's opinion on it and I sincerely try to not make too much out of it. This is a forum where people can share ideas without getting called names, belittled or slammed it's a pretty civilized discussion here. We all have opinions and that's perfectly normal, we're all friends here or could be.

 

All we really want is what's best for each other, and I believe that motivates every single comment that's made by anyone here.

 

Here's hoping things get a little saner in 2022

[Notes_Norton]

<...snip...>

 

I love gigging, been doing it for 50 years and will continue doing it until I literally can't do it any more. I've been a proponent of the "Roar of the greasepaint, smell of the crowd" thing all my life. Notes has spelled it out many times here, it's the second most fun you can have in life, performing in front of good crowd. If I die on stage, I'm cool with that I just hope dragging the body out doesn't stop the party...

 

<...>

 

I agree, with one qualifier. If I die on stage, I hope the last song I played in my lifetime isn't "Yakety Sax" :D

 

And I intend to play as long as there is an audience to play to, and I'll do my best to keep an audience entertained.

 

I knew a drummer who died on the gig. I wasn't there when he died, I was playing somewhere else. He had a heart attack on stage playing at an Elk's lodge. When the buried him, they put the drumsticks he was playing when he died in his hands.

 

We had a nice gig last night. It was outdoors in a huge RV Resort. We've done this quite a few years now (except last year). Many of the people are away from family, so the vacationers come together for a 'road family' dinner and party. A lot of French Canadians came back this year, and these folks know how to party.

 

Merry Christmas to all.

[KuruPrionz]

Sounds like you've had an interesting musical adventure and you're about to go on another one. Sounds great to me, good on you man.

 

I love gigging, been doing it for 50 years and will continue doing it until I literally can't do it any more. I've been a proponent of the "Roar of the greasepaint, smell of the crowd" thing all my life. Notes has spelled it out many times here, it's the second most fun you can have in life, performing in front of good crowd. If I die on stage, I'm cool with that I just hope dragging the body out doesn't stop the party...

 

The Omicron variant is raging right now including the vaccinated but so far there's no differentiation between two shot vacinnated and the three shot folks. The transmissiblity of this thing seems off the charts but the symptoms also seem to be pretty mild. Among the vaccinated at least, still not much reporting bettween us and the unvaxxed either. I believe strongly in science, I believe strongly everybody should get vaxxed. I got the first two shots excactly a year ago, early November followed by late December. The day the VA emailed me to say I was eligible for the booster I got it along with the flu shot. I have a big yacht club gig coming up next week for NYE. No news about possible cancellation so I'm doing it. Yes I do have a little bit iof trepidation in the back of my mind because if Omicron is there, I think there's good chance I'll get it and that goes for all of us. I think the chances of catching it has gone way up but I'm not cancelling my life over it but everybody has to make their own decision about this. Three shots is what I'm going with and if you guys never hear from me again on this forum well, maybe it didn't work out so well, who knows?

 

All this discussion about COVID, the government and all that crap is basically fun for me. I like doing it, I really like reading everybody's opinion on it and I sincerely try to not make too much out of it. This is a forum where people can share ideas without getting called names, belittled or slammed it's a pretty civilized discussion here. We all have opinions and that's perfectly normal, we're all friends here or could be. I strongly believe if we all got together in a big room full of instruments we would have a great time jamming it out.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everybody!

 

Bob

 

Thanks, I am excited to start a new adventure in music. I've done my time in the trenches and I know I'll be back on stage when things get to a new normal.

The last 6 years were great fun but I've had my fill of "bar band" songs for now, it's time to explore other options.

Cheers,

Kuru

[Notes_Norton]

<...snip...>

Thanks, I am excited to start a new adventure in music. I've done my time in the trenches and I know I'll be back on stage when things get to a new normal.

The last 6 years were great fun but I've had my fill of "bar band" songs for now, it's time to explore other options.

Cheers,

Kuru

I remember when I was doing the bar band end of the biz, I talked to the 'old timers' who told me that once they moved to the country club / yacht club / condominium / retirement development end of the business, they would never go back to the bars.

 

When I turned 40 I landed a job in a Yacht Club, which slid me into that end of the biz, and I'll never go back to the bars.

 

There are pros and cons.

 

The cons are (1) you aren't so much 'the star' as in many gigs; they want the music, but not the between songs patter on the mic, and (2) you have to schlep gear every gig.

 

The biggest pro is that people are invited, they are ready to party, and there are no Thursday nights where the patrons all come dressed as tables and chairs and the manager suspects the band is at fault. At the end of the gig, more often than not, people come up to thank you for providing them with a wonderful evening, and the entertainment purchasers are more like friends than bosses.

 

Another pro is if I can book two of these per week, I can make as much as 5 nights in a bar. I don't know if that will work where you are.

 

I do try to play one day a week to one day a month 'in public' usually in an outdoor restaurant/bar where my targeted age group patronizes. It's typically for shorter money than a private gig, but it is all the advertising I need. The rest is repeat business and word of mouth.

 

When I started this end of the biz, a 4 piece band was the right size, but it's been downsized to a single to trio.

 

This works for me, I don't know if it would work for you or not, I'm just throwing this out as 'food for thought'.

 

Insights and incites by Notes â«

[KuruPrionz]

Thanks Notes, we have a summer season here. Yachts, Golf, etc all go away from late October to mid-May and really it's all about June, July, August and part of September.

That's it. The rest of the year is indoor gigs only.

 

There are gigs that no bar band knows about, back in around 2008 I spent a couple of years in a Motown cover band that was booked by an agency.

People called the agency, wanted a band and were offered a Motown act. They jumped at it, everybody loves Motown. Among the gigs was a show at the top of the Space Needle in Seattle for a National Librarians Convention.

Fun gig, good pay but competing for space with the caterers on the single elevator and having to park the cars off yonder after they were unloaded meant that some of us were driving and walking back to the gig and the rest of us were trying to get all of our stuff up to the top floor and onto our stage area. We left Bellingham around 1pm and got home around 2am for a 3 hour gig. Good pay doesn't look as good in that context.

 

We also had a gig at the Fairmont in Whistler for a Canadian Math Teachers thing. We were provided with rooms, load in wasn't too bad and the gig was fun. Pay was a bit stingy but at the end of the night the Canadians passed the tip jar and gave us a bucket of loonies to we did OK. But essentially a 24 hour gig with 2 border crossings, passports, questions and all of that fun.

 

Florida is a different world. I'm from California, that is a different world as well. Right now we have snow and ice on the ground and it is expected to start to clear up around late Sunday, maybe. Currently it is 9 degrees outside.

And friends have New Years Eve gigs to play. Indoors only, they pay OK but Omicron is spreading quickly and nobody wears a mask at a dining and drinking establishment.

 

Your lovely way of life would not work as well in the great Northwest. I have other income streams.

 

And I am wanting to do something very different musically, not just play a different bank of cover tunes for a different crowd. Been there, done that, I've been gigging for 45 + years and have played rock, blues, country, folk, soul, funk, metal, pop and various combinations of all of the above including requests. Covers are covers, any way you slice it. People want them because they liked the original, they don't care about you.

 

I do appreciate your efforts and your successes and wish you all the best in the future. If I had a path like that before me, I'd probably do it as well.

[Jazzmammal]

I hope everyone had a great Christmas and is looking forward to a good New Year.

 

I have written several times about the concept of the lockdowns and restrictions should be over and it's time to "live with COVID" This is the best mainstream article I've read about this:

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/587405-experts-say-covid-19-cases-dont-tell-whole-story

 

NBA Commissioner Adam Silver said this a few days ago:

 

'No plans right now to pause the season,' Silver said in an interview with ESPN. 'We have looked at all the options, but frankly we"re having trouble coming up with what the logic would be behind pausing right now. ⦠This virus will not be eradicated, and we"re going to have to learn to live with it.'

 

That article and Adam Silvers comment says it much better than I could write it. Doesn't mean everybody agrees with it but it's the current reality unless something really bad happens.

 

Bob

[Anderton]

I think any conclusions right now are premature. The problem is that if the "all clear" turns out to be wrong, and infections go through the roof, morgues are filled, and hospital workers quit in droves, that's not "living with covid." That's living with stupid.

 

Right now infections are accelerating at an incredibly fast pace. We'll know in a couple weeks whether that leads to a huge spike in deaths or not. If not, then it's looking very hopeful because it means vaccines are working, and covid is losing its potency. But we don't know yet.

 

While we're waiting, I still want to know what "living with covid" looks like. I don't think that means pretending it doesn't exist, or locking things down. So, what does that middle ground look like?

[GovernorSilver]

NFL seems to have a similar attitude to NBA.

 

What "living with COVID" has resulted so far for the NFL is dilution of quality of product, as starters and backups get shuffled on and off COVID/reserve lists and more and more teams are forced to play backups. Games are getting less and less watchable.

 

On the college football side, bowl games have been canceled as schools have pulled out due to not having enough healthy players left to participate, as a result of COVID spreading among teams.

[KuruPrionz]

I hope everyone had a great Christmas and is looking forward to a good New Year.

 

I have written several times about the concept of the lockdowns and restrictions should be over and it's time to "live with COVID"

 

Bob

 

I have written several times that Covid 19 will eventually increase the average IQ of the American People.

This is not because I think Covid makes people smarter...

[Jazzmammal]

Of course if, IF hospitalizations and deaths really spike then things would change but the current stats do not show that. Remember we mostly all agreed with the shutdowns, mask mandates and all that 18 months ago based on incomplete data that pointed to higher levels of both so we went along with it. And it turns out that incomplete data was correct, prior to the vaccines this thing was a serious threat.

 

Now the incomplete data is not pointing towards that, in fact the current data is pointing towards the opposite as it's spelled out in the HIll article. At that same time 18 months ago there were also lots of anectodotal stories about otherwise strong and healthy people catching this and either dying or spending months in hospital. Those stories were relatively few but they got everybody all worked up about the potential risks and yes those risks were real. Now we're not seeing any stories like that. Every anectodotal article I read says among the vaccinated these symptoms are either asymptomatic or mild. the CDC just revised their COVID protocol quarantine time down from 10 days to 5 obviously because these new cases are over so quickly. Plus we now have a pill that further reduces the risk of hospitalization and death even among the unvaxxed by 85%. There is already close to 65,000 doses available right now with millions of doses coming within a month or so.

 

All the signs point to good news here and what we're seeing right now is what living with COVID looks like.

 

No matter what happens some will live in fear for years, maybe even the rest of their lives while others will say see, it's all over and it's about time! The majority of us in the middle will be taking care of ourselves, taking precautions we feel it's necessary and that's living with COVID.

 

Bob

[KuruPrionz]

I agree that vaccines work very well.

 

There are still many who refuse to be vaccinated. That is a wild card.

 

The longer Covid 19 exists, the more variants we will see. The flu is certainly proof of that, flu shots are in a state of flux as variants arrive.

 

While Omicron does not appear to be as deadly as previous variants, it is notably more contagious. Historically, viruses mutate. While Covid 19 has more or less settled in with bats and other animals. we are not done with variants by any means. That is another wild card.

 

I'd love it if everything was fine and dandy but I stand by my statement. We will see 1 million dead in this country before too long and that is not the end by any means. Good luck! Kuru

[Anderton]

Now the incomplete data is not pointing towards that...

 

I prefer not to make long-range decisions based on incomplete data. Remember how everyone was going to get vaccinated, and this would all be over after the summer? Like how it was going to just disappear by May 2020 when the warm weather hit? And how you wouldn't hear anything more about covid after November 2020? And how we'd all be able to get together for the holidays in 2021?

 

Yeah, right.

 

Let's face it, everyone - from know-nothing politicians to world-renowned experts - have pretty much gotten everything wrong about covid, from the beginning. That is almost two years worth of data, and it's pretty complete. No one saw delta coming until it decimated India. No one saw omicron coming until it spread like wildfire. No one has a clue.

 

We are in the middle of a major spike at the moment. As I said, "We'll know in a couple weeks whether that leads to a huge spike in deaths or not." Once we find out the consequences from the spike, and don't just speculate about it, we'll have much better data on which to base decisions.

 

Until then, apparently unlike most of the media, I'm incapable of saying "I don't know."

[Notes_Norton]

We played at a RV Resort last night, where we played a number of New Year's Eve parties before COVID reared its ugly coronavirus head.

 

The park has 900 RV slots, where the huge 5th wheelers and upscale bus motor-homes mix with more mid-level extravaganzas. 600 are usually filled with French Canadians all winter. (These folks know how to party.)

 

In the past, the audience numbered in the hundreds, last night about 50. It was an indoors/outdoors party, with the indoors opened to the fresh air on all 4 sides.

 

There is of course fear of omicron, and one of the park management told us that most of the Canadians are going back home this year. The Canadian government told them if they don't come home and catch COVID, they can't come back to Canada until they are cured.

 

Canada has socialized medicine, the USA has for profit medicine, and there is no agreement between the two like there is with different EU countries. So if the Canadian gets COVID, they have to pay the US for-profit system for their treatment. The few that are left here are wealthy enough to afford expensive supplemental US health insurance.

 

But we had a great time anyway. The dance area was full from the first song to "Auld Lang Syne", at the end people thanked us for providing them with a wonderful evening, and we went home with the afterglow of a good performance and some money in our pockets.

 

Life is good. We're all just doing what we can to get by in these challenging times.

[Anderton]

My wife got breakthrough covid. Thankfully she had a booster not too long ago. She was messed up for sure, and her tests still show positive, but she's definitely getting better.

 

Somehow I didn't get infected. After she got her positive test, I tested and was negative. I know it could be a false negative, but here I am on forums and doing work for clients, so I think I'm fine. I did have a booster in November, so I'm still in the "maximum booster efficacy" zone.

 

Saw an interesting article that said it won't be necessary to do lockdowns, because so many people will be sick the economy will come to a screeching halt anyway until after this has peaked. I guess the airlines and hospitals are confirming that. My wife can't go back to work until she gets a negative test, and she's klnd of pivotal for things happening at the company where she works.

 

What I think a lot of the "live with covid" people don't realize is that covid isn't a binary situation where no covid = fine, and yes covid = dead. Just imagine if half a million people got the flu every day, which is kind of what's happening now if you ignore the deaths/hospitalizations. No way that couldn't put the brakes on the economy.

[Notes_Norton]

We get tested frequently - so far we're OK.

 

We don't want to be asymptomatic and broadcasting COVID through my sax and our voices to our audience.

 

I hope your wife heals quickly and completely, Craig.

 

Notes

[KuruPrionz]

My wife got breakthrough covid. Thankfully she had a booster not too long ago. She was messed up for sure, and her tests still show positive, but she's definitely getting better.

 

Somehow I didn't get infected. After she got her positive test, I tested and was negative. I know it could be a false negative, but here I am on forums and doing work for clients, so I think I'm fine. I did have a booster in November, so I'm still in the "maximum booster efficacy" zone.

 

Saw an interesting article that said it won't be necessary to do lockdowns, because so many people will be sick the economy will come to a screeching halt anyway until after this has peaked. I guess the airlines and hospitals are confirming that. My wife can't go back to work until she gets a negative test, and she's klnd of pivotal for things happening at the company where she works.

 

What I think a lot of the "live with covid" people don't realize is that covid isn't a binary situation where no covid = fine, and yes covid = dead. Just imagine if half a million people got the flu every day, which is kind of what's happening now if you ignore the deaths/hospitalizations. No way that couldn't put the brakes on the economy.

 

Wow, all the best to your wife and to you!!! Been there, done that. I was lucky, a very mild case. At the same time, after two days I was asymptomatic. Glad I got tested and hid from all my friends!!!!

[Jazzmammal]

Did a great NYE party at a yacht club in Oxnard about 70 miles NW of Los Angeles. Three members were out of town and left their boat keys with the commodore so the band could sleep on those boats. Nice touch. On the way home our drummer started feeling bad, got tested and it was positive, he texted us about it. I asked him how he's doing this morning and he's pretty much back to normal already. In addition to simply being around him all day while setting up and playing, I was right next to him for dinner and in addition to that everybody went 3 blocks down the street to a beach bar new years day morning that has a hangover party every year with a really good free breakfast buffet. I shared a little bar table with him there as well, so I've been exposed for sure. He and his girlfriend headed out after breakfast.

 

On the way home I went to the VA to get tested. I found out they don't do rapid tests because they're too unreliable, they only do PCR testing with a two day turnaround. I find that interesting, here's one government agency doing the opposit of another government agency and recommendations from the White House. I said OK, I'll take the PCR but she said with no symptoms they won't do that test either. If I develop sysmptoms I can come back for the test. So far I have no issues at all and like you Craig, I'm just relaxing at home and seeing what happens.

 

This doesn't change my definition about living with COVID. This sort of thing is going to happen for years going forward. Dr. Michael Osterhaus predicted all this on Joe Rogans podcast two full years ago. If you don't remember who he is just Google him, Biden made him an adsvisor for a while. A new variant pops up, everybody freaks out again but as more time goes by, more are vaccinated/boosted and more unvaxxed catch it which helps with their immunity and life goes on. We're going to be taking new COVID vaccines/boosters for the rest of our lives probably. People can live normally or be completely paranoid, it's up to them.

 

The news is full of stories out of NYC just like it was during the original COVID wave. It's cold there, everyone's inside plus everyone commutes on trains, subways, buses and that's not good either. So we read about people being required to work from home again, the economy's going to take a hit again, etc. Not gonna happen, this will pass quickly. I'm bringing back an argument that was premature 18 months ago, let everybody get it, then it's over as long as local hospitals don't get overwhelmed. It seems to me everybody's going to get it vaxxed or not, it's just a matter of when making that argument moot. This is why Biden backtracked by saying it's up to local governors how they handle this. Not a good idea in NYC or DC but OK other places.

 

Bob

[Anderton]

So we read about people being required to work from home again, the economy's going to take a hit again, etc. Not gonna happen, this will pass quickly.

 

It's already happened. Ask the airlines, Mass General, Vanderbilt, cruise lines, you name it. Regardless of how quickly it passes, the economy is taking a hit right now. So it HAS happened.

 

Like I said, if hundreds of thousands (or even tens of thousands of people) a day call in sick with the flu, the economy will take a hit. Same thing if they call in sick with covid. You can differ on the size of the hit, but you can't differ on the fact there's a hit.

 

This doesn't change my definition about living with COVID. This sort of thing is going to happen for years going forward. Dr. Michael Osterhaus predicted all this on Joe Rogans podcast two full years ago.

 

You don't have to be a genius to predict that viruses can mutate and stick around. Figuring out their impact is a different matter.

 

A new variant pops up, everybody freaks out again but as more time goes by, more are vaccinated/boosted and more unvaxxed catch it which helps with their immunity and life goes on. We're going to be taking new COVID vaccines/boosters for the rest of our lives probably. People can live normally or be completely paranoid, it's up to them.

 

To quote myself: "What I think a lot of the 'live with covid' people don't realize is that covid isn't a binary situation where no covid = fine, and yes covid = dead." We have no idea how this is going to end up. We have no idea if there will be long-term damage from covid...or from vaccines, for that matter. We have no idea whether insurance companies are going to consider having gotten covid as a pre-existing condition, and deny any condition that it touches. We have no idea how most of the southern hemisphere not being vaccinated affects the northern hemisphere. My wife tested negative today, and she no longer has the covid symptoms - but she still has afteraffects from being sick that she didn't have before covid. Will they be gone tomorrow? Next week? Next month? Never? And she didn't even have a bad case because she was vaccinated.

 

There's no way people can live normally with this degree of uncertainty, and there's no way people can justify being completely paranoid.

 

As I've often said, "I'm not so arrogant that I can't say 'I don't know.'" Because I don't. And AFAIC, anyone who says they do is at best taking an educated guess, and at worst, promoting an agenda.

[KuruPrionz]

You don't have to be a genius to predict that viruses can mutate and stick around. Figuring out their impact is a different matter.

 

Hmm... https://www.yahoo.com/news/covid-variant-ihu-46-mutations-031400156.html

[Anderton]

You don't have to be a genius to predict that viruses can mutate and stick around. Figuring out their impact is a different matter.

 

Hmm... https://www.yahoo.com/news/covid-variant-ihu-46-mutations-031400156.html

 

I wouldn't worry about it too much. My understanding is that it was around before omicron, and omicron is such a badass in terms of infectiousness IHU didn't get a chance to get a toehold. But what do I know?

[KuruPrionz]

You don't have to be a genius to predict that viruses can mutate and stick around. Figuring out their impact is a different matter.

 

Hmm... https://www.yahoo.com/news/covid-variant-ihu-46-mutations-031400156.html

 

I wouldn't worry about it too much. My understanding is that it was around before omicron, and omicron is such a badass in terms of infectiousness IHU didn't get a chance to get a toehold. But what do I know?

 

It is simply another mutated mutant that is mutating, that's all. Some of them will fizzle, others will thrive. That's part of the life of mutations, no?

[Jazzmammal]

There's no way people can live normally with this degree of uncertainty

 

Of course we can, this is where we disagree. Life has always been filled with uncertainty, we take a relatively huge risk every day we get in our cars and drive somewhere. There are plenty of other medical conditions that can kill us, disable us, have nasty long term problems besides COVID. Me and many other people simply cannot live our lives worring about stuff like that. Of course we'll take appropriate precautions like vaccines and seatbelts but if it happens, it happens. The unknown is exactly that, unknown. I take the view I'll worry when there is something real and documented to worry about. My worry about Omicron is minimal for now.

 

I get more news concerning lots of things including COVID by watching the financial shows than I get from the regular news outlets because they're interviewing the people who are really in the know about all this stuff like the CEO's of Pfizer, Moderna, Regeneron, etc. Along with mall operators, retailers, auto companies. These interviews can last 5 to 10 minutes, not a 15 second soundbite. I'm not hearing Omicron is going to throw the economy back to 2020 which is what I meant. A short term hit of say 20% for a month or so is nothing, that can be made up throughout the year.

 

Here's a good interview with CDC Director Walensky:

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cdc-covid-guidance-rochelle-walensky-testing-requirement-supply/

 

The rapid test is not reliable enough and the PCR is so sensitive it can detect traces of the virus long after the symptoms are gone and you're no longer transmissible. Given that, what's with all these requirements by various employers, government institutions and some countries who require negative results before you can go back to work or enter the country? My drummer friend had a rapid test and as of this afternoon he's bascially fine now. I haven't asked him if he's had a second test to try to confirm it or if he's now negative and what good is that anyway given what the CDC said? He may not have had COVID at all, who knows. Here's another article about Whoopie Goldberg and her bout with COVID:

 

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2022-01-05/whoopi-goldberg-covid-19-omicron-the-view

 

What I take from this is basically what I just wrote yesterday. As she says, the only thing we can count on is the vaccines work, if not to actually stop infection, they keep the symptoms mild. The fact her family members are so paranoid they force her to keep her door shut sounds ridiculous to me. She just said she took every precaution after she was fully vaxxed and yet still got it so what's the point of all that paranoia? Obviously, she did it to keep the family happy and I would too but that doesn't mean I agree with it. We all know COVID is much more transmissible than the flu and keeping away from someone who's sick with the flu or a cold has marginal results at best so just relax, go about your business and trust the vaccines to keep you out of the hospital.

 

Bob

[Notes_Norton]

COVID is obviously a lot more dangerous that driving around without seat belts. Just look at the numbers.

 

And if you think millions dying, including doctors, nurses, truck drivers, meat packing workers, store clerks, mechanics, musicians, airline pilots, and so forth is going to make our economy healthy, I respectfully disagree.

 

The US has taken mostly a 'live with COVID' approach, especially in the early days when the last president hid for 6 weeks hoping it would go away, then went out maskless, told people to use bleach or malaria meds, and created a no-vax cult that coughed at mask wearers and called them sheep. What did it get us? The most COVID deaths of any country in the world, including countries that have a billion more people than us.

 

The only economy this is helping is the undertakers.

 

There is no good answer. Ignoring it is bad, locking down is bad, and it's too late for herd immunity. We have to live with it, and the right answer seems to be somewhere between the two extremes.

 

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