In ear choices - advice?

[Bob L]

My son decided new custom in ear monitors would be a great Father's day gift. This week I got fitted (they did the mold thing). I have been using Shure SE 215s. I've had no issue with them.

 

Here are the choices that the folks that did the mold have (or I supposed I could go elsewhere). The lowest price model is $400. A step up from that is $600 (for dual driver), and then they go up to $1,500. Are dual drivers "all that" for a keyboard player?

 

http://www.selectivesounds.net/custom-inear-monitors-earbuds-for-musicians.html

 

My son is an adult with a good job, but I still don't want to spend a ton of his money since I am happy with the Shure s(non custom mold) that I use now. I have really enjoyed using in ears the past 8+ years or so as I can hear my voice well (I sing lead in my cover band) and at the end of the gig my ears are no worse for wear.

 

Thoughts? Advice?

[Baldwin Funster]

Get the $400 ones. Then sneak the money back to his wife for when the car breaks down.

[stoken6]

Can you get "just the molds" to fit to your SE215s?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Stokely]

I'm probably going to be a minority opinion on this...

 

I started out with 215s also, did maybe 100 gigs with them. They had some bleed, but it wasn't bad, mostly low end and it meant I didn't have to worry about putting any kick or bass in my mix. Eventually one side has developed a somewhat loose connection so I decided to upgrade and keep them for backups.

 

I got customs from a place in town who also did the fittings...and on sale, so it was triple drivers for a great price. I honestly don't find them comfortable--they fit *exactly* but compared to the 215s they are big and blocky. The real problem--occlusion. When I sing, everything gets blocked out other than the "voice in my head", I guess because of the pressure. It's literally a show stopper because I do a lot of singing. I'd end up partially taking out one of them which entirely defeats the reason you use customs.

 

Quality wise, I never noticed a night and day difference between my custom triples and the Shures. It was not the mind-altering experience that I kind of anticipated

 

So I went back to using the Shures, and recently took a flyer on a set of "chi-fi" (meaning, chinese hi-fi earbuds of various brands) earbuds on Amazon. Five drivers a side for 60 bucks LOL! They actually sound pretty good, a little bright but clarity is fine. So those are now what I'm using with the trusty Shures and/or my customs as backups. I monitor my keys in stereo, and at home I use a nice set of Sennheiser open-backed studio phones...bottom line, I can hear myself great live with cheaper earbuds and I feel no need to go nuts. Our bass player has a set of 1800 dollar ones, I'd have to seriously be convinced that something like that would be worth it, heck even 400.

 

One option for customs is to get them "ported"--this wouldn't be good for a bass player but I stay out of the low end almost 100%...and it might get rid of the occlusion problem for all I know. Unfortunately to get mine ported now is almost the cost of the things.

[obxa]

I'm probably going to be a minority opinion on this...

 

Quality wise, I never noticed a night and day difference between my custom triples and the Shures. It was not the mind-altering experience that I kind of anticipated

 

.

 

Been round the block with this same situation. Many guys I work with have some of those boutique things like the Nashville1964's that cost $2000+. I've borrowed them on gigs... just like you said- it wasn't life changing.

 

I have done custom ear-molds for my Shure E5s and had that same occlusion problem. So went back to the silicone flange "Christmas tree" style buds. I've stepped on and broken my E5s so many times that I had Shure repair on speed dial, and finally downgraded to E3s.

A drummer friend of mine started a company here in Atlanta that makes a triple driver knockoff of a famous IEM that sells pretty cheap. . Those have been pretty good, if the seal is right.

 

With IEMs the seal and comfort is everything. I think it's a cheap investment on trying the various earpieces that are out there - and to also know that sometimes your ears can be different sizes from each other.

[Reezekeys]

I have the cheapest Shures 215s like Bob. I've had molds (earplugs only) and find the Comply foam tips I use on the Shures more comfortable. I think the foam blocks a lot of the stage sound although I suppose I'd get a few more DBs of isolation from molds - but I have no compaints. For giggles I once removed one of my Shures during a show to see the difference and it was dramatic, so I think these foam tips do a good job. As far as fidelity, or the idea of better sound with multiple drivers (along with the extra expense): I'm on a super-loud stage next to a guitarist's Fender Twin as he also stands in front of a monitor wedge blasting vocals. Having audiophile-quality ears is not uppermost on my mind. What I need for my in-ears to do mainly is block stage sound (i.e., act as earplugs) to save my ringing ears, while letting me hear myself with reasonable fidelity, volume, and lack of obvious distortion.

 

Before the Shures, I used even cheaper guys - the MEE M6s (about $50 iirc), and I liked those more than the Shures. One side went out during a sound check while I was on the road, so a quick trip to a Guitar Center is how I wound up with the Shures. Now I come to find out MEEs have a lifetime warranty so I may just take them up on that and relegate the Shures to backup duty.

[adamcz]

How do you get started with in-ear monitors? Where does the sound source come from?

[zephonic]

I also have the 215"s and they sound fine, but I wanna get custom moulds because they get uncomfortable when I have them in for a long time.

[Reezekeys]

I also have the 215"s and they sound fine, but I wanna get custom moulds because they get uncomfortable when I have them in for a long time.

Have you experimented with different tips and sizes? I find the "christmas tree" soft silicone tips less comfortable than the foam tips after a while. Years ago, when I got custom molds made for special earplugs that had replaceable filter modules, I remember my ears hurting a bit after wearing them for more than 20 or 30 minutes. Of course ymmv.

[tunaman]

I use Ultimate Ears. I bought my first set nearly 10 years ago, and it was life changing when coupled with the AKG IVM4500. Last year, my band mates and I took advantage of discounts during NAMM. I bought a new set, a couple of steps up from the model I started with. Our guitar player and drummer went with the lowest cost model, and our bass player went a couple grades higher than mine.

 

Our singer already had them.

 

Good IEMs are worth their weight in gold, as they will help save your hearing for years to come - awesome to listen to very low levels while maintaining projection for FOH.

[Bob L]

adamcz - I use a low end Behringer mixer for my keyboards. The main output goes to the board, the monitor (Ctrl room output ) goes to a Behringer Powerplay P1. I get a monitor feed (same as would go into a wedge ) that goes into the second channel of the Powerplay P1. That monitor channel is for me (we each have our own mix) and has everything but keyboards. With the Powerplay, I mix the monitor channel (vocals, guitar , drums, etc.) with the monitor feed from the mixer that has just keyboards. This has worked well for me for a very long time. To use this technique you need your own monitor feed from the board that does NOT have keyboards.

[Stokely]

I am doing something pretty similar to what Bob L is doing, mainly because I'm doggedly determined to listen in stereo Our monitor feeds with the current board we are using are mono and there are not enough for me to use two. I bring in my keys and the monitor mix (sans keys) into my submixer, then send ONLY the keys to FOH using a pre-fader send. To make this work the send has to be pre-fader. I'm monitoring the main stereo (control room) sound, which is keys + monitor.

 

I've also done many gigs where I don't bother with this, my keys come back in the monitor mix into a wired pack. I only do this when we are running sound ourselves, I don't trust sound companies with this arrangement and I like to have a bit more control. Our mixer has an app so when we use it I can adjust everything from my ipad.

[stoken6]

How do you get started with in-ear monitors? Where does the sound source come from?

There are a number of ways.

 

One option is to take a (pre-fade) aux/monitor send from the mixing desk, plug it into a headphone amp and then IEMs. Modern digital desks tend to have plenty of monitor sends, as well as an app to allow you to control your mix from your phone/tablet.

 

Bob L and Stokely are doing something a little more sophisticated, running their own personal mixer to mix their keyboards with a (keyboardless) monitor send from the front-of-house desk. I use a Rolls PM351 as a personal mixer - this has a built-in splitter/DI that allows me to plug my keys (and mic) into the PM351 and from there to the desk.

 

You may want to add a limiter to protect your hearing.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Reezekeys]

IMO the Rolls is an inexpensive and very workable way to get an iem system going. I use the PM55P, a somewhat cut-down version of the PM351. The XLR input takes the feed from the monitor desk, and my keys feed goes into the 1/4" TRS input from the pass-thru on DI boxes. Each input has its own level control, and there's a built-in limiter. In a perfect world I would get a stereo feed from the monitor desk but logistics (and the PM55P's feature set) won't allow that. I do get to hear myself in stereo, at any level I want, so I'm happy.

[Chris Link]

Here"s something I posted recently on this topic.

 

'Upper and lower KBs to Radial ProD2 direct box. (I"ve never had an overwhelming need for stereo.) Individual monitor mix controlled with iPad to Rolls PM55P. I like that is has a volume limiter built in.

 

Westone AM Pro 30 with the -13 dB ports. I typically get enough drums, bass and lead guitar without adding them to my mix. Keys, vocals and non-amped acoustic guitar and fiddle adjusted as needed. I gotta say it"s a little unnerving the first time playing without an amp, (IIRC, I brought one along) but it certainly streamlines set up and minimizes carrying stuff.

 

The ambient ports help with that 'in a box' feeling that I used to get with more complete sound isolation. It also helps to not have to pull a earpiece out to converse. I"m out on one end and seated so people with requests and such seem to find me pretty often. The drummer and lead singer use IEMs in stereo and say that helps a lot with the boxed in sensation.

 

If I weren"t using this Rolls, I would use a limiter such as this. I got one when I was thinking of using the same mixer to send keys and receive my monitor feed. I decided it was too easy to screw up and changed to my current set up.

 

https://preservear.com/

 

I"m about paranoid enough about tinnitus and hearing damage that I might use it with the limiter on the Rolls.'

[Chris Link]

I use these with some custom molds that I had made to use with my previous Shure IEMs.

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AmPro30--westone-am-pro-30-ambient-earphones-clear

[Reezekeys]

Feeling the "disconnect" of ears plugged with iems was a concern and took me more than a few gigs to get used to. I'm wondering if the ports on those Westones that allow ambience also increase the overall dbs getting to my eardrums. I have moderate tinnitus and when I'm using my ears the idea is to block as much stage sound as possible, at the same time keeping my iem level as low as possible as well. I can't get the iem levels down too low or the bleed from the stage sound overwhelms and makes it harder to play. It's a balancing act and compromise I've adjusted to. I'm not that bad off since I always get my own mix - but anything I get from the monitor desk is mono, and with iems that means the band sounds like it's all "inside my head." That's what took the most time getting used to.

[Stokely]

That's honestly why I love stereo so much--even with mono instruments you can pan them apart, which helps you turn down possibly since they aren't all in one spot.

 

It's the reason I want to monitor my patches in stereo as well, besides the fact that yeah they do sound better! But having keys panned a bit left and the rest of the band a bit right would help even if my keys were mono.

 

If you are hearing that much bleed with IEMs, sounds like you need a better fit (or a quieter stage volume). I'd get a bit with my Shures, but even right next to a drummer it was almost all low end stuff, which was fine. I use the harpoon tips, they seem to block a bit more than the regular foam ones.

 

As I mentioned, my big beef with my customs is not the canned feeling/sound, it's occlusion that is pressure based...singing literally blocks everything else out, it's awful.

 

Our bass player has started wearing a small mic that he mixes into his own in-ear mix. I could use an extra mic I have and simply hang it out front somewhere to get a bit of the mains/room sound, but so far haven't bothered. Our guitarist uses too much fx so the one benefit of that is that my monitor mix no longer sounds as canned as it did LOL!

[Reezekeys]

If you are hearing that much bleed with IEMs, sounds like you need a better fit (or a quieter stage volume). I'd get a bit with my Shures, but even right next to a drummer it was almost all low end stuff, which was fine. I use the harpoon tips, they seem to block a bit more than the regular foam ones.

The bleed I was referring to is all low end. For all I know it's the stage vibrating through my bones to my inner ear. My foam tips do a good job sealing my ears. I'm not sure how they compare to the harpoon tips, but for me the foam tips are more comfortable. The harpoons hurt a little after playing a 90 minute show. And yes, the stage volume could stand to be lowered for sure - but the main guys are in their 70s and have never used in-ears. It's a very loud stage and I'm not in a position to ask anyone to turn it down. Not that I would; It's all been fine since I went to in-ears.

Our bass player has started wearing a small mic that he mixes into his own in-ear mix. I could use an extra mic I have and simply hang it out front somewhere to get a bit of the mains/room sound, but so far haven't bothered. Our guitarist uses too much fx so the one benefit of that is that my monitor mix no longer sounds as canned as it did LOL!

I used to do that, in a typical (for me!) poor-man's fashion: I have an old Tascam SD card recorder that, when put into "record standby", let you monitor the onboard stereo microphone. I placed this on stage, then took its headphone output into my MOTU MicroBook IIc's stereo miniplug input and mixed it in with my keys and monitor feed. It worked, but honestly didn't sound that great. Then the MOTU shit the bed in the middle of a show and I abandoned my tech-y setup and just used the plain headphone out of my laptop and got the Rolls.

 

[Chris Link]

 

I'm wondering if the ports on those Westones that allow ambience also increase the overall dbs getting to my eardrums. I have moderate tinnitus and when I'm using my ears the idea is to block as much stage sound as possibleâ¦

 

IIRC, the ports drop the ambient level by 13 dB. I"ve actually checked stage volume occasionally and it rarely tops 100. 85 is comparable to 'heavy city traffic or noisy school cafeteria' so I consider that okay.

[stoken6]

The ambient ports help with that 'in a box' feeling that I used to get with more complete sound isolation. It also helps to not have to pull a earpiece out to converse. I"m out on one end and seated so people with requests and such seem to find me pretty often.

Actually that reminds me of the best things about IEMs - being able to point at them and shrug when being pestered by audience members.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Chris Link]

The ambient ports help with that 'in a box' feeling that I used to get with more complete sound isolation. It also helps to not have to pull a earpiece out to converse. I"m out on one end and seated so people with requests and such seem to find me pretty often.

Actually that reminds me of the best things about IEMs - being able to point at them and shrug when being pestered by audience members.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

Very true. But I"d bet most people don"t get that you can"t hear what they"re saying and just talk louder and slower as though you just aren"t getting it.

[Chris Link]

One thing to keep in mind is what could be called 'buyer bias'.

 

If you just spent a lot of money on IEMs (or pretty much any purchase) you have a tendency to convince yourself (and everyone else) that it was money well-spent. With a non-returnable item like this, that tendency is magnified. Pretty much no one has made a side by side comparison with a bunch of options. I suppose you have to rely on the overall user reviews and evaluations from the various audio review sites.