Monitoring Set-Up for Singing Keyboard Player

[BbAltered]

Hello. In the soul-dance band, I play keys and sing two songs and contribute b/u vocal for a bunch more tunes. As I think about moving to IEM, I am trying to figure out the best way to monitor myself in live settings.

 

Currently, I send a stereo keys signal and a mono mic signal to the PA (which is run by our bass player), and take a single mono signal from the band mixer back to my monitor. This mono return carries my keys sound, my vocal sound, and any other instrument or vocal from the band mixer I want to have in my monitor. This kinda works, but I cannot balance the level of my keys or my vocal against the other band instruments and vocals. That mixing would have to be done by the bass player - who is busy playing bass and can't really attend to my specific monitoring needs in real time.

 

No - we do not do a decent sound-check before a show - any soundcheck we do generally a hurried effort occuring in the 15 minutes immediately proceeding the first song, and is generally limited to making sure everyones' monitor is on and functioning.

 

In a perfect world, I want to be able to raise or lower my keyboard sound and vocal sound myself, independently of what monitor signal I am getting from the other band members. So I need a keyboard mixer that can 1) input a stereo line signal from the keys, input a mono mic-level signal from my mic, input a mono line signal from the band mixer, and output a mono line keys signal to the band mixer, and output a mono line vocal signal to the band mixer. Alternatively, the keys mixer can output one mono signal carrying both my keys and my mic to the band mixer (tho' I am pretty sure at some point there would be complaints from the bass player about how the keys and vocal are both in one channel in the band mixer). (Mostly I am using a single keyboard; some gigs I'll bring a second keyboard so any mixer I get should have an additional pair of line inputs for a second keyboard.)

 

Does anyone else play keys and sing who can advise me on the best way to monitor myself and provide decent signal(s) to the band mixer?

 

I have been looking at those smaller Mackie mixers to be my keyboard mixer. The Mix8 has two mic-level channels, two stereo line channels, a main stereo output, a "control room" stereo output, one mono aux output, and one (stereo) headphone output. So this would allow me to have my mic and one or two keyboards in stereo, and a feed from the band mixing board. I can monitor using the headphone out, and use the single aux out to send a (pre-mixed vocal and keys) signal to the band PA. Sadly there are no channel direct outs which would help to send separate keys and keys vocal to the band mixer. Also sadly, the headphone out and CR out is serviced by the same knob, which makes it difficult to use both simultaneously. To avoid feedback, I would have to use the Aux output to send signal to the band mixer (this allows me to make sure I am not sending the signal I get from the band mixer back to the band mixer).

 

Or is there a better way to do this? Any advice or experience is helpful.

[Chris Link]

I send mono signals to the board through a double DI box, feed my monitor mix (we can do our own) to a Rolls mixer with a volume limiter (very important IMO) and am hard-wired to my IEMs since I don"t move around and don"t need wireless. If you want to have stereo monitoring it would get a little more complicated.

 

I upgraded to some Westone IEMs that have the port that drops the ambient volume (12 bD if I recall). Enough bass, drum and lead guitar come through that I usually don"t need them in my mix at all. The ambient sound eliminates that 'in a box' feeling that total isolation can give. And since I"m on the end of the stage and stationary, I can hear people who seem to gravitate toward me to make requests, etc. No more popping an ear bud out to have a conversation.

 

I"ve been very happy with this set up. I hope this is of help.

 

https://westoneaudio.com/product/am-pro-30-earphones/

[Chris Link]

I looked at using a single mixer to send to the PA and as an IEM mixer. There"s always chance of screwing up and sending feedback to your ears which could be devastating. If you do it that way, invest in this simple limiter between your mixer and ears.

 

http://preservear.com/

[stoken6]

If you want a utility mixer that can do what you want, check out the Rolls PM351. It has three channels: instrument, mic and monitor. The first two have thru connections to send to the desk, and the third is for a return from the desk. Precisely three knobs, allowing you to do what you need.

 

No limiter though, so you might want to add something for that.

 

Alternative suggestion: what is the FoH desk that you use? Most modern digital desks have an app allowing you to control your own monitor mix.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Chris Link]

Here is the Rolls with the limiter.

 

https://www.rolls.com/product/PM55P

[stoken6]

Yep, the PM55P doesn't have independent control of microphone and instrument.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[BbAltered]

If you want a utility mixer that can do what you want, check out the Rolls PM351. It has three channels: instrument, mic and monitor. The first two have thru connections to send to the desk, and the third is for a return from the desk. Precisely three knobs, allowing you to do what you need.

 

No limiter though, so you might want to add something for that.

 

Alternative suggestion: what is the FoH desk that you use? Most modern digital desks have an app allowing you to control your own monitor mix.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

Good suggestion Mike. I have not considered the Rolls PM351 - the thru connections should be very useful. The crux of the matter as I see it is the potential for feedback between what I send to the band mixer and what I receive from the band mixer.

 

The band mixer is a analog 16 channel Allen + Heath board. So no remote controlling of monitor mixes. The band has like 5 vocal mics and 2 horn mics, 1 mic on the kick, and sometimes a mic on the guitar cab (a lotta live mics on stage - windy outdoor concerts are a bitch). We are outgrowing this mixer: it only has 4 aux outputs so only 4 monitor mixes in a seven person band.

[wineandkeyz]

I have been looking at those smaller Mackie mixers to be my keyboard mixer. The Mix8...

 

My thought would be the Mackie 802VLZ4 and a mic splitter:

- Connect your keyboard to one of the stereo outs and send the Main Mix output to FOH

- Connect your mic to the splitter with one output to FOH, the other to Channel 1 of the 802VLZ4

- Bring a monitor send from the band mixer to Channel 2 of the 802VLZ4

- Press the MUTE/ALT 3-4 button on Channels 1 and 2

- In the CONTROL ROOM SOURCE matrix, press the MAIN MIX and ALT 3-4 buttons

- Make sure the ASSIGN TO MAIN MIX button is NOT pushed to prevent a feedback loop

- Monitor yourself using the either the headphone or CR OUTs. You'll be able to adjust your mic and the monitor mix relative to your keyboards.

[ShadowMan]

I have used Rolls gear for years, and love their MX28 mixers. In fact one has been incorporated into my live rig for as long as I can remember to sub-mix my keys and provide an IEM feed.

 

On recommendation I got a PM351 a year or two back to add in the PA mix to my IEMs - but found the audio fidelity on the mix from it has a bad high frequency roll-off. Maybe I got a lemon, but I rarely use it.

 

Just my .02 centsâ¦