I wonder why Apple doesn�t make an audio interface.

[Mike Davis]

First of all, greetings and happy new year. I haven"t posted in a while, but I check in from time to time. Hope everyone is doing well!

 

I"m due for a new laptop and could use an better audio interface as well. Of course I"m looking at the new M1 MBP. And I could be wrong, but it looks like most of the companies who make audio interfaces are not quite ready with compatibility. That"s ok, I can wait a month or two, but it got me thinking. Why doesn"t Apple make an audio interface to pair with Logic, and now, Zoom?

 

Cheers, looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

[Lady Gaia]

Apple certainly sells a variety of interfaces in their retail stores that work well with their hardware, but as a company Apple is all about focus. There's a common slogan repeated internally that goes "we say no to a thousand good ideas every day." If there isn't something absolutely unique that Apple brings to the category, they're generally reluctant to put time and energy there. Witness their exit from WiFi base stations and monitors as two examples of intentionally narrowing their focus. Generally speaking, if it can't be strongly differentiated with a unique and evolving user experience, it's unlikely that Apple will do it.

 

Admittedly I was on the software side of things there, which slants my perspective somewhat, but I worked pretty closely with the silicon folks and a lot of emerging hardware product lines.

 

Oh, and Happy New Year!

[Mike Davis]

Apple certainly sells a variety of interfaces in their retail stores that work well with their hardware, but as a company Apple is all about focus. There's a common slogan repeated internally that goes "we say no to a thousand good ideas every day." If there isn't something absolutely unique that Apple brings to the category, they're generally reluctant to put time and energy there. Witness their exit from WiFi base stations and monitors as two examples of intentionally narrowing their focus. Generally speaking, if it can't be strongly differentiated with a unique and evolving user experience, it's unlikely that Apple will do it.

 

Admittedly I was on the software side of things there, which slants my perspective somewhat, but I worked pretty closely with the silicon folks and a lot of emerging hardware product lines.

 

Oh, and Happy New Year!

 

Thank you for a great answer. I love the idea of saying no more than yes. I"m thinking Warren Buffet thinks in that direction too.

[ElmerJFudd]

They do - it"s called Apogee.

 

That"s not official, but Apogee's engineers work closely with Apple"s audio and Logic teams and their interfaces are tightly integrated with Mac OS/AMS/Logic.

[mauriziodececco]

To add to the conversation : usb class compliant audio interfaces that do no use drivers should work just fine with Apple silicon Mac

[Docbop]

Apple has a love/hate relationship with software and especially Pro audio and video in house and rather 3rd parties do it. I remember a couple time they said they were getting out of Pro applications. The last time was when I was work doing media and IT for the church around 2009 I think back when they were doing the now defunct Apple Servers. My IT boss was an Apple fanboy so had me researching Apple servers, but our media department and graphic department used lots of Mac Pros and Final Cut (audio was all ProTools). That's was when there was a lot of talk about Apple dropping Pro apps because the R&D costs just were too high. But then the computer side of Apple started pointing out to management how much the Pro application drive desktop computer sales and Apple started liking Pro app's again.

 

Apple is all about profit margins and making an audio interface margins are too thin and the market size is too small for Apple and easier to leave to 3rd parties. Apple under Tim Cook is starting to follow the old IBM model that Microsoft has followed of letting 3rd parties do things that wouldn't be profitable enough to do inhouse. Also the IBM POV is having a large group of 3rd parties making products for your products, makes them dependent on you staying alive. That's why when IBM has been in trouble they never die to many need them to stay alive.

[KuruPrionz]

As Lady Gaia points out, they probably don't feel like that is a market segment they need to compete in.

 

You can only get ONE MacBook Pro running Mac OS. It's that or a Billy G Box, which is a highly competitive market.

 

The same is true with interfaces, there are lots of options and at the same time, just a few similar form factors. If they offered Mac Only interfaces that is a relatively small market.

If they include PC users then they need to make something that is more or less similar to what is already accepted or gamble on the product selling well.

 

Meanwhile, they flip a buttload of iPhones and have good income from services so they don't really need to gamble at this point.

 

I will take Elmer J Fudd's word for it on Apogee, no reason to doubt him. So maybe keep an eye on the Apogee stuff, it might be early to run on M1.

Keep us posted how it all plays out!

[Mark Schmieder]

I've had enough job solicitations from Apple over the past year to think they might at some point do a "sort" of audio interface, although my guess would be that it wouldn't be "traditional" like the ones we usually discuss on this forum.

 

They're a tight-lipped company though, and even my former co-workers who now work there, can't say what they're working on. I'm merely extrapolating from job descriptions (I don't think I applied for any of them, but I long ago lost track as 2020 was a blur of 100+ hours a week in the job search once the COVID lockdown killed the live sound industry).

 

There's also some stuff that I DO know (whether I'm supposed to or not; I assume with Apple that everything is more secret than the US Military, and I'm not exaggerating as I have experience with both), but can't share here. And like Google, Apple has lots of projects that don't necessarily make it to market but might still serve as feasibility studies for later market pushes.

 

Ultimately, it is fruitless to try to predict Apple; more so than any other company. Be prepared to be surprised, have low expectations, and don't be disappointed if your laundry list was ignored. :-)

[AnotherScott]

One more variable to consider... Even people who are using Macs for music don't necessarily need an interface. MIDI I/O and audio out work fine without one. You only really need it for audio in. (Or if you need more than 2 channels of output.)

[analogika]

It wouldn"t be done with âan' audio interface.

 

Mainstage needs a decent stereo interface with sustain pedal and MIDI, *maybe* something like a Key Largo (six channels in plus FX send).

 

Logic needs anything from two to sixty-four inputs and anything from ⦠to ⦠outputs.

 

Are they gonna build one interface for all, or a whole line of interfaces? There's a whole universe of scalable complexity to develop and support.

 

As for Apogee working closely with Apple...the Metric Halo guys actually wrote part of the FireWire stack for OS X after spending a long time trying to work around some low-level obscure bugs. There"s probably a bunch of other developers working on close terms with Apple's OS engineers.

 

Emagic actually HAD interfaces (that are still supported by Apple), but they were killed after Apple bought them.

[Mike Davis]

Thanks everyone! Keep it coming. I"m learning a lot here.

[KuruPrionz]

One more variable to consider... Even people who are using Macs for music don't necessarily need an interface. MIDI I/O and audio out work fine without one. You only really need it for audio in. (Or if you need more than 2 channels of output.)

 

This is also true, last night I was goofing around with my Fishman Triple Play and recorded 4 tracks onto Waveform 11 through the USB port. I listened to them with headphones. If I wanted to, I could convert them to audio and drop plugins on them. Then I could mix them on headphones and call it done.

For that matter, the built in microphone for my 2014 MacBook Pro could be worse, I could easily cut a vocal track or two with that.

 

Not the freedom of selecting mics and or DIs for the intended purpose but somebody determined to do so could easily create viable recordings with just the computer and a few widgets.

I have a CME XKey 25 and an Akai MPK25 as well, straight into the USB connector and done.

 

More than one way to skin a cat and more than one cat that needs skinning.

 

Last but not least, if I didn't really need a new computer right now, I would wait. Thunderbolt 4 is on it's way and is supposed to be fully compatible with USB whatever it is. Plus, the M1 chips are just the beginning, there will be more and much faster options available in the foreseeable future. Worst case you could buy a used M1 when somebody who has to have the latest and greatest flips it to get something new. Save a nice chunk of $$$ if one is patient.

[AnotherScott]

One more variable to consider... Even people who are using Macs for music don't necessarily need an interface. MIDI I/O and audio out work fine without one. You only really need it for audio in. (Or if you need more than 2 channels of output.)

 

This is also true, last night I was goofing around with my Fishman Triple Play and recorded 4 tracks onto Waveform 11 through the USB port. I listened to them with headphones. If I wanted to, I could convert them to audio and drop plugins on them. Then I could mix them on headphones and call it done.

For that matter, the built in microphone for my 2014 MacBook Pro could be worse, I could easily cut a vocal track or two with that.

 

Not the freedom of selecting mics and or DIs for the intended purpose but somebody determined to do so could easily create viable recordings with just the computer and a few widgets.

Right. In a sense, Apple does already make an audio interface, it's built into every Mac. The audio out half of it is certainly quite good, and that's all many people need.

[El Lobo]

The new I-interface will be incompatible with non-Apple software.

It will only work with the proprietary connector, which is unavailable at this time.

The I-interface will come in a very elegant box that you"ll never want to throw away.

Inside, there will be a card that simply says 'Hello' and, hidden away, will be a very small tool for rebooting your I-interface.

It has only one input ... but they're planning to get rid of that in version 2.0.

The second generation I-interface will be incompatible with the first generation.

The I-interface2 will be released a few months after the I-interface so that everybody will feel the need to upgrade.

The I-interface2 will be called the Pro model.

I work at Apple and can neither confirm nor deny any of this information.

I found an I-interface prototype in a bar, and I sold it on Ebay for $17,960. Now Apple has sent the lawyers after me, so I've left the country.

 

[Adapted from the iSax parody on Sax On The Web. Apologies to all.]

[ElmerJFudd]

The new I-interface will be incompatible with non-Apple software.

It will only work with the proprietary connector, which is unavailable at this time.

The I-interface will come in a very elegant box that you"ll never want to throw away.

Inside, there will be a card that simply says 'Hello' and, hidden away, will be a very small tool for rebooting your I-interface.

It has only one input ... but they're planning to get rid of that in version 2.0.

The second generation I-interface will be incompatible with the first generation.

The I-interface2 will be released a few months after the I-interface so that everybody will feel the need to upgrade.

The I-interface2 will be called the Pro model.

I work at Apple and can neither confirm nor deny any of this information.

I found an I-interface prototype in a bar, and I sold it on Ebay for $17,960. Now Apple has sent the lawyers after me, so I've left the country.

 

[Adapted from the iSax parody on Sax On The Web. Apologies to all.]

 

I just don"t think they are interested in this.

 

Apogee and plenty of others take care of low, mid and high end pro audio io.

The market is small and completely functional and decent sounding interfaces have been driven down in price to $99.

 

If Apple wanted this, they"d just buy Apogee, like they bought eMagic. But there the goal was Garage Band (more so than Logic Pro) because it"s fun for even beginners to dabble with music. And that drives Mac and iDevice sales. They went for Beats because it included Jimi Iovine and Dr. Dre along with the huge consumer market for headphones (which also drives sales of their hardware as media delivery devices).

[Reezekeys]

One more variable to consider... Even people who are using Macs for music don't necessarily need an interface. MIDI I/O and audio out work fine without one. You only really need it for audio in. (Or if you need more than 2 channels of output.)

 

The headphone output works as an audio input if you use a TRRS connector. I think it's meant for electret mics (it has a bias voltage on it). I'm curious what the audio quality is. Might come in handy for someone wanting to put a scratch vocal or guitar part on a tune. The new M1 macs are supposed to have better quality built-in mics too.

[El Lobo]

ElmerJFudd, I hope it was clear that I was just making jokes about Apple's product development and marketing style. I agree that Apple is probably not interested in an audio interface, for all the reasons already cited.

[ElmerJFudd]

ElmerJFudd, I hope it was clear that I was just making jokes about Apple's product development and marketing style. I agree that Apple is probably not interested in an audio interface, for all the reasons already cited.

 

Yes, of course. But also describing the typical Apple approach.

Which is what further prompted my thoughts on why they probably wouldn"t be interested.

[jazzpiano88]

I'd probably use this :

[video:youtube]

SSL Audio Interface

[Joe Muscara]

My guess is that the audio interface companies that complain about how Apple updates macOS every year don't "work closely" with Apple, while the ones that simply say, "we recommend you don't upgrade macOS until we release a compatible version of our software" do.

 

That's just a guess and maybe a bit of a vent on my part though.

They went for Beats because it included Jimi Iovine and Dr. Dre along with the huge consumer market for headphones (which also drives sales of their hardware as media delivery devices).

and to get a head start on streaming as well as streaming radio. IIRC, Beats 1 had some big names already. Beats Music already had human staff curating playlists, which still seems to be generally better than automated.

[analogika]

They went for Beats because it included Jimi Iovine and Dr. Dre along with the huge consumer market for headphones (which also drives sales of their hardware as media delivery devices).

and to get a head start on streaming as well as streaming radio. IIRC, Beats 1 had some big names already. Beats Music already had human staff curating playlists, which still seems to be generally better than automated.

This. The Beats acquisition was about streaming, as it was obvious that the "buy and own" business model of iTunes was no longer going to work.

 

The fact that they got a working and profitable hardware brand with the purchase ensured that they basically couldn't lose money on the acquisition.

 

Beats headphones are reportedly still developed by a completely different team than Apple's own offerings, though they share some key digital components these days.

[AnotherScott]

One more variable to consider... Even people who are using Macs for music don't necessarily need an interface. MIDI I/O and audio out work fine without one. You only really need it for audio in. (Or if you need more than 2 channels of output.)

 

The headphone output works as an audio input if you use a TRRS connector. I think it's meant for electret mics (it has a bias voltage on it). I'm curious what the audio quality is.

My limited experience is that audio in on a Mac sounds terrible for line level recording (e.g. to record the audio output of a keyboard), so an interface is probably always required for that. But if your only need for audio in is microphone (vocal, acoustic guitar, etc.), maybe there's a solution there, further obviating the need for an interface. I never tried that.

[ElmerJFudd]

[video:youtube]

 

[video:youtube]

[Stokely]

Hmm, I always figured somehow an audio interface was "taking the burden" off the computer when it came to D-A...never really considered that for "in the box" composing and mixing one might not be required at all (unless you wanted XLR outs to go to speakers or something).

 

I know the UAD ones do this to some extent.

 

I have an interface for the preamps if nothing else. I'll try pulling up a big recent Logic project I was mixing without the interface connected and see if there's any difference (processing wise, and sound quality wise).

[KuruPrionz]

One more variable to consider... Even people who are using Macs for music don't necessarily need an interface. MIDI I/O and audio out work fine without one. You only really need it for audio in. (Or if you need more than 2 channels of output.)

 

The headphone output works as an audio input if you use a TRRS connector. I think it's meant for electret mics (it has a bias voltage on it). I'm curious what the audio quality is.

My limited experience is that audio in on a Mac sounds terrible for line level recording (e.g. to record the audio output of a keyboard), so an interface is probably always required for that. But if your only need for audio in is microphone (vocal, acoustic guitar, etc.), maybe there's a solution there, further obviating the need for an interface. I never tried that.

 

 

There are also some XLR to USB "line lumps" available. Shure makes one, the converter is powered by the USB port. Not sure about phantom power, guessing it's possible. Would limit the user to one microphone at a time, which is 1 more than nothing. I haven't tried anything but MIDI in via USB at this point and that seems to work fine.

[uhoh7]

Emagic actually HAD interfaces (that are still supported by Apple), but they were killed after Apple bought them.

 

We live in a time when perfectly good hardware is rendered unusable by lack of software which can keep up with Apple's constant mindless updates of the Linux-based MacOS. Emagic expensive MIDI splitters being one example, and all our old ipads and iphones being another. This only the beggining of what's coming.

 

IOS14 has been even more damaging than Catalina to the general public. It would OK if "going back" was easy. It's often impossible as most know. Many of us must listen to nags about updating our OS everyday because Apple has made it impossible to even turn that off.

 

I help people with apple gear all the time, and I use Mainstage at times, but I can understand the revival of hardware immune to careless changes.

 

One interface solution I see used alot is the "Unmentionable" made XR18 mixer that is truly 18X18. It's not that hard to get two channels of audio into a DAW, but if you want to do more than that the options thin and the price rises. I may get one of these. For now I use a IK pro-duo, which is quite the swiss army knife for two channel AND MIDI, in both IOS and MACOS.

 

Apple has become the epitome of monopoly, and why the muckrackers enacted anti-trust legislation. Their hardware is slick and sleek. It ignores the real world worries of us, not mention the terrible waste of needlessly obsolescent hardware. Nothing offends the Gods like Hubris.

 

Mainstage, Logic, and Preview are examples of software "well done"---at the moment. I could write a long list of current apple software which is not well done, at all. But to what end?

 

What I love about acoustic instruments: they always power on and never ask you for a password to play them.

[Marzzz]

One more variable to consider... Even people who are using Macs for music don't necessarily need an interface. MIDI I/O and audio out work fine without one. You only really need it for audio in. (Or if you need more than 2 channels of output.)

Eddie Jobson on tour used a pair of MBPs running MainStage (one for each keyboard, and actually a third one for his violin), and took the sound output directly from the headphone out, thru a DI and into the PA. This from a musician known to be OCD about his stage setup.

 

FWIW, I am currently using a Clarett 8Pre TB, and it sounds great- clear, quiet and clean. If/when I upgrade my MBP to the new 16" with the M2 chip coming out later this year, I may consider upgrading the interface, but it doesn't seem to be a priority at this time.

[ElmerJFudd]

I remember the shift to OSX from OS9 as well as the inclusion of Audio Unit Validation in Logic, and the shift to multi core support. All did wonders for stability without needing a third party DSP solution (ProTools HD, UAD, TC Powecore, etc.).

Apple has always had a team of developers in house doing audio and midi. The stock hardware is good.

They develop their own drivers for Mac hardware and work with third party developers to solve issues they are having with their hardware (class compliant or otherwise). It"s this kind of stuff that commands the price tag. Equivalent machines that you don"t build yourself are also not cheap. Brand PC"s can be added to and tweaked up, but that also requires time and money.

[Docbop]

Apple's constant mindless updates of the Linux-based MacOS.

 

 

Just to clear up OSX is NOT based on Linux it is based on FreeBSD specifically DragonFly BSD, it is another branch of the UNIX tree of OSes. Steve Job NEXT computer's OS used parts of FreeBSD too.

[Mike Davis]

Apogee is teasing this on their Facebook page:

 

https://www.facebook.com/apogee.electronics/posts/10158527949506072