Yes and Fender Rhodes

[Mark Schmieder]

Tank was the song that first made me fall in love with the Clavinet (or maybe Superstition, depending on which one I heard first). Then the celtic fusion band Touchstone in the 1980's.

[Doerfler]

(I created a profile just to chirp up in this thread)

 

well, welcome, then. I saw Patrick on the "Relayer" tour with Yes summer 1976. Excellent for you to own this piano.

[GRollins]

...toured between 74'-76'.

 

Then it's likely that I've seen that keyboard as I saw Yes on the Relayer tour in November of '74.

 

I sometimes wonder what might have happened if Moraz had remained with Yes. All things considered, I preferred Wakeman, but Relayer was an interesting album and (at least for me) an improvement over Topographic Oceans.

 

Grey

[mcgoo]

... All things considered, I preferred Wakeman, but Relayer was an interesting album and (at least for EVERYBODY) an improvement over Topographic Oceans.

 

Grey

 

There. Fixed it for ya.

[AnotherScott]

... All things considered, I preferred Wakeman, but Relayer was an interesting album and (at least for EVERYBODY) an improvement over Topographic Oceans.

 

Grey

 

There. Fixed it for ya.

Okay, Relayer has its moments, but just as a single album, I would take sides 1 and 2 of Topographic over the 2 sides of Relayer. Minority opinion I suppose.

[mcgoo]

... All things considered, I preferred Wakeman, but Relayer was an interesting album and (at least for EVERYBODY) an improvement over Topographic Oceans.

 

Grey

 

There. Fixed it for ya.

Okay, Relayer has its moments, but just as a single album, I would take sides 1 and 2 of Topographic over the 2 sides of Relayer. Minority opinion I suppose.

 

Well, truth be told, I was just trying to be funny with my comment above. I do quite like sides 1&2 of Tales (especially side 1). I just can't get thru sides 3 or 4 without scratching my head and thinking "Really??? Dudes, wtf is this?"

[Mark Schmieder]

Some people say Topographic Oceans is why Punk Music had to happen...

[mate stubb]

Embarrassing Moraz story:

 

My wife went to a Moody Blues show once without me and was hanging out by the sound board. Having run sound for my bands for years and an ability to strike up a conversation with strangers, she gave the sound man a little grief that Patrick didn't play the orchestral ending to Knights in White Satin. They found this extremely funny and insisted that she get on the intercom and tell him herself.

 

Somehow they hooked her up to Patrick in the middle of the show (I guess he was offstage at the time.) He tried to explain that it was too complex to perform live, etc. but she told him that I had sequenced the entire thing.

 

As I heard this story the next day, I wanted to crawl in a hole! Sequencing was very new at the time (still pre-MIDI) and I was on the cutting edge briefly, but Patrick could make more music with 1 finger than I could with 10.

[GRollins]

... All things considered, I preferred Wakeman, but Relayer was an interesting album and (at least for EVERYBODY) an improvement over Topographic Oceans.

 

Grey

 

There. Fixed it for ya.

Okay, Relayer has its moments, but just as a single album, I would take sides 1 and 2 of Topographic over the 2 sides of Relayer. Minority opinion I suppose.

 

I'm not sure how to state this clearly online, because I'm accustomed to waving my hands in the air and gesticulating when I try to describe this sort of thing, but here goes...

 

I'm not much taken with New Age/Ambient music. A little goes a long way for me. I'm not against it per se, but it never really seems to go anywhere. There's this perpetual sense that something is about to happen, but it never really does. The music never resolves into this huge, impressive crescendo where you get a triumphant feeling that, "Yes! This is where we were going all along!" There's never a reason to pump your fist in the air and feel that someone has manged, through the magic of music, to articulate one of the elemental truths of the universe.

 

There are numerous places in Topographic Oceans where I get the same feeling. It sounds like it's winding up to start to commence to begin to initiate to...never mind, it tapered off and went to sleep. I expect more energy from Yes. A more emphatic statement. More rock, dammit! Stand up, boys! Be counted! Let's have a little testosterone, even if it's phrased in oblique, mystical, "Mountains come out of the sky and stand there" ways. There are some wonderful ideas in Topographic Oceans, but they're not developed.

 

There's also the fact that there's not much of the challenging, odd-time signature, virtuoso playing that I want to hear from Yes. Impress me. Make me want to sit down and work out what they did and how they did it, picking the notes out one-by-one until I master the riff and achieve my own sense of triumph at being able to follow in their footsteps. Lead and I will follow. No, it's more, "Get up, man. Get up! Quit resting. We've got miles to go and you're sitting on a log beside the path." It's mostly just mundane things, glued together with a ho-hum, "I suppose this will work. At least it's in the right key," attitude.

 

Must have been the cow in the studio that did it.

 

Don't get me wrong. I don't hate Topographic Oceans. There's not enough substance there to hate; it'd be like trying to hate a vagrant breeze for not being a stronger wind. It's just that I keep feeling that--especially after having just come off of Close To The Edge--I had expected and hoped for more. Much, much more.

 

Grey

[GRollins]

Some people say Topographic Oceans is why Punk Music had to happen...

 

I've heard that as well and if I'm honest, I can say that Punk might have had a point.

 

Grey

[AnotherScott]

Actually, to me, the only great Yes albums are The Yes Album and Fragile. CTTE is half a great album. I love And You and I and Siberian Khatru. But the "title track" of the album just doesn't work for me. And it's not that I didn't give it a chance. Heck, at one point I was in a Yes tribute and had to learn it! It has its moments, but in total, it's just not that good, IM (apparently not widely shared) O.

[Mark Schmieder]

CTTE is why I got into Yes. Chris Squire's interesting bass line near the beginning, and how it evolved during the song, was what hooked me and probably a big reason why I eventually became a bassist. I had not previously heard such rhythmic motifs in pop/rock and it blew me away, as someone coming more from the classical and jazz worlds where such a playing style and phrasing would not be unheard of.

 

The problem is that the success of that song encouraged them to do Topographic. Or rather, Steve Howe in particular, as he was the driving force behind that concept and many of its barely-developed motifs. It feels as half-baked as most of his solo albums. But then, I've rarely been fond of music that is written primarily by a guitarist, as such music more often than not has little soul, passion, groove, or feel. Like Newage music.

[mcgoo]

... CTTE is half a great album.... But the "title track" of the album just doesn't work for me. ... It has its moments, but in total, it's just not that good...

 

BLASPHEMY! Stone him, I say! Ban him from the forum and break the keys off his QWERTY keyboard!

[GRollins]

Or rather, Steve Howe in particular, as he was the driving force behind that concept and many of its barely-developed motifs. It feels as half-baked as most of his solo albums. But then, I've rarely been fond of music that is written primarily by a guitarist, as such music more often than not has little soul, passion, groove, or feel. Like Newage music.

 

Everything I've seen indicates that it was Jon Anderson's concept and that he talked Steve Howe into it with varying degrees of reluctance, depending on which version of the story you hear. The two of them talked the rest of the band into going along. Wakeman, famously, was very reluctant and ended up leaving the band over T.O. Blame Jon.

 

Grey

[Mark Schmieder]

Hmm, could be. I know from my own life experience that "who did what" gets very hazy over time, but whether it was mostly Jon or Steve, I think what is clear is that Squire and especially Wakeman had way less input into Topo than the previous albums. This is probably why Relayer seemed like a shot in the arm, in spite of its flaws, because there was new blood, new instruments (including the Rhodes), and a lot of outside stylistic influences that shook things up. This then allowed for a rejuvenation of band energy and creativity when Wakeman came back into the fold with the excellent "Going for the One" album, which also broke new ground.

[Marzzz]

Everything I've seen indicates that it was Jon Anderson's concept and that he talked Steve Howe into it with varying degrees of reluctance, depending on which version of the story you hear. The two of them talked the rest of the band into going along. Wakeman, famously, was very reluctant and ended up leaving the band over T.O. Blame Jon

That is my understanding also- Jon was reading something in the eastern spiritual vein, which inspired TFTO. It has its moments, but in general I find it pretty tedious, especially sides 3 and 4. If they had done this ten years later, it would"ve made a very good full-length CD, but as double vinyl there was a lot of filler.

 

FWIW, I really liked Drama, which also seems to receive some disdain.

 

Back to Rhodes for a moment, I had one but considered it as a piano substitute. And damn that thing was heavy!

[AnotherScott]

I mentioned liking the first two sides of Topographic over the 2 sides of Relayer... I also liked Relayer more than Going For the One... and I liked Drama better than either of them. I don't think too many share my opinions, though.

[Mark Schmieder]

Drama is my favourite from that set. I notice that you tactfully left Tormato off that list. :-)

[mcgoo]

... I also liked Relayer more than Going For the One... and I liked Drama better than either of them. I don't think too many share my opinions, though.

 

Funny... after I (jokingly) was horrified at your opinion of CTTE, I'm right there with you about Drama. I thought it was brilliant.

 

... I notice that you tactfully left Tormato off that list. :-)

 

Tormato, on the other hand, IMNSHO was a dreadful piece of crap. I really tried to like it because I was such a fan back then, but I failed miserably. Drama never got a fair shake in my view, probably because of Trevor Horn not being Anderson. I think he did a nice enough job of covering Anderson live, but unlike the later non Anderson Yes singers, he brought his own style to the band.... and I like what he & Downes brought to the band. I prefer stylists over cover artists.