M-Audio Hammer 8 anyone?

[Fleer]

It"s what I could fathom from different forums:

M-Audio Hammer 88 - Medeli K6 (Kurz SP6 and KM88)

M-Audio Hammer 88 Pro - Medeli K6S (Kurz PC4)

(Medeli K6S is a graded K6 with aftertouch)

[Mighty Motif Max]

Just ordered the Hammer 88 Pro (not the regular one). It will have a graded action, but it should be similar to this board. I'll let you know how I think it compares to those various actions in time.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Commenting on the Hammer 88 *Pro*, which has grading and aftertouch, I will answer my own questions about action comparison.

 

...

 

Can anyone who's played the Hammer 88 contrast the action with any of the following?

 

- Yamaha Balanced Hammer (BH) action (Motif XS/XF8, S70/90XS, Montage 8, CP73)

- Yamaha NWX (CP88, P515)

- Yamaha GHS (MOX8, MOXF8, MODX8, MX88, P115, P125, P121, P45)

- Yamaha GH3 (CVP-305/405, maybe other Clavinovas)

- Yamaha NW-GH3 (CP4)

- Yamaha GHE (CP40)

- Roland Ivory Feel G with escapement (FA-08, Juno DS88)

- Roland PHA-50 (RD-2000)

- Fatar TP-100 *as used in* the Nord Electro/Stage HP boards (because implementation varies and that's the only version I've played)

- Korg NH (Krome & Kross 88)

- Kawai RHIII (MP7SE, ES8)

- Casio Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action II (PX5S)

- Casio "Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action Keyboard II w/Simulated ebony and ivory keys" (PX-560)

- Casio Smart Scaled Hammer Action (PX-S1000/3000)

 

I need to have a reference point for its quickness and solidity (i.e. speed and feel). For reference I'm happy with the speed and response of the Yamaha BH and GHS, and the Kawai RHIII, while I find the Nord TP-100, Roland Ivory Feel G, and Korg NH to be slow and mushy, to the point where I would avoid them. IIRC the GHE is plasticky but not mushy, and the NW-GH3 (CP4) was not my favorite. Straight GH3 is heavy (I grew up with it). I find the NWX to be a stiff, heavy action, and the PHA-50 to be very unusual feeling - loose but slow. The Casio Tri-Sensor Hammer Action II variants I find kind of in the other extreme - fast, but plasticky and loose. And then the PX-S1000/3000 Smart Scaled Hammer Action is super unpleasant for me *personally* (as has been debated endlessly).

 

I played the Korg RH3 once on a Grandstage, but I don't remember enough about how it felt to include that.

 

Thanks to anyone who can compare the Hammer 88 to *any* of those. Much appreciated!

 

Okay, action comparison time for in the event M-Audio fixes things and people are interested in this model.

 

- Yamaha Balanced Hammer (BH) action (Motif XS/XF8, S70/90XS, Montage 8, CP73)

The Hammer 88 Pro action is both heavier and slower on the return than the BH action. It also is more plasticky, but not to the degree of, say, a Yamaha GHS action. It has a good weight to it and doesn't feel cheap. The BH action is just faster and quicker on the return, and a little lighter. BH is better overall for most things. Note that the Hammer 88 Pro action is graded while the BH is not, but the Hammer 88 Pro's grading is light, so it doesn't amount to much realistically.

- Yamaha NWX (CP88, P515)

The Hammer 88 Pro action is lighter than the NWX and not as stiff. I found the NWX to be heavy and stiff, and really didn't like it. IMO the Hammer 88 Pro's action is better overall than the Yamaha NWX.

- Yamaha GHS (MOX8, MOXF8, MODX8, MX88, P115, P125, P121, P45)

The Hammer 88 Pro action is slower and heavier than the GHS, but not as plasticky feeling. I'd say the GHS is a better overall compromise action, and if a person is playing a lot of high-tempo music like ragtime or fast classical the GHS is a little better because the return of the keys is faster. But the Hammer 88 Pro action feels more like a grand piano and it feels more substantial.

- Yamaha GH3 (CVP-305/405, maybe other Clavinovas)

The Hammer 88 Pro action is lighter than the GH3 with a faster return, and better in almost every way except feeling substantial. The GH3 has always been a little heavier than I like.

- Yamaha NW-GH3 (CP4)

The Hammer 88 Pro action is similar in weight to the NW-GH3, but a little slower on the return. The NW-GH3 is a little faster action overall, as well as being textured a little more like a piano.

- Yamaha GHE (CP40)

The Hammer 88 Pro action is actually similar to the GHE as seen in the CP40 (which felt different than the GHE in the CLP-130 which is a decade older). I'd say the Hammer 88 Pro action bottoms out softer than the GHE, but is slightly slower. The key gloss/texture is almost identical between the two. The Hammer 88 Pro action has less noticeable grading.

- Roland Ivory Feel G with escapement (FA-08, Juno DS88)

The Hammer 88 Pro action is about equal in weight but has a *faster* return than the Ivory Feel G with escapement. It feels similar in terms of bottoming out. I'd say the Hammer 88 Pro action is better overall because I've always found the Ivory Feel G to be a little sluggish.

- Roland PHA-50 (RD-2000)

The Hammer 88 Pro action requires a little more initial pressure when playing, but it has a significantly faster return than the PHA-50 action does. The PHA-50 is just slow and sluggish on the return, so the Hammer 88 Pro action is much better in that regard.

- Fatar TP-100 *as used in* the Nord Electro/Stage HP boards and Acuna (because implementation varies and that's the only version I've played)

The Hammer 88 Pro action is both lighter and faster than the TP100LR as found in the Nord Electro/Stage HP and Acuna, and superior in every way in my opinion. It's not as mushy, not as slow, and not as plasticky.

- Korg NH (Krome & Kross 88)

The Hammer 88 Pro action isn't as plasticky as the NH action. It doesn't have that annoying plastic squeak to it either, and it isn't anywhere near as mushy. I think the two are similar in terms of key return time, but the Hammer 88 Pro is a better action overall in my opinion. The NH requires less initial pressure to depress a key downwards.

- Kawai RHIII (MP7SE, ES8)

The Hammer 88 Pro action isn't on the same level as this action, unsurprisingly. The Kawai RHIII is smoother, faster, lighter, less plasticky, has better repetition, and feels more like a piano than the Hammer 88 Pro ever will. However, I'd say the Hammer 88 Pro action is 77% of the way there. It's not bad in its own right, the Kawai RHIII is just another level of premium.

- Casio Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action II (PX5S)

The Hammer 88 Pro action feels less plasticky than the PX5S's action. It's a little slower, but feels more substantial and solid, closer to a piano. I think it's superior but I dislike the PX5S action a lot.

- Casio "Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action Keyboard II w/Simulated ebony and ivory keys" (PX-560)

The Hammer 88 Pro action isn't textured, it's just a gloss finish, so that's one primary difference. The PX-560 action is looser to play than the Hammer 88 Pro's, but not in a good way IMO. The Hammer 88 Pro action is a little heavier.

- Casio Smart Scaled Hammer Action (PX-S1000/3000)

The Hammer 88 Pro action wins in every way against the Casio Smart Scaled Hammer Action. It has even playability front-to-back of all the keys, the white and black keys have similar weighting, it's smoother, bottoms out more nicely, and it doesn't strain the wrists when playing fast music the way the PX-S1000/3000 does. The Hammer 88 Pro action is slightly heavier and does require a little more strength initially, but it's more like a piano in that way and it doesn't have the bizarre wrist strain issue that I and some others find that Casio action to have. The Hammer 88 Pro action is better in every way.

 

 

That should about cover it.

[Mighty Motif Max]

It"s what I could fathom from different forums:

M-Audio Hammer 88 - Medeli K6 (Kurz SP6 and KM88)

M-Audio Hammer 88 Pro - Medeli K6S (Kurz PC4)

(Medeli K6S is a graded K6 with aftertouch)

 

Hi Fleer,

 

I just got my PC4 today. Let's clear something up: the action in the Hammer 88 and Hammer 88 Pro is NOTHING like the action in the PC4. I know they look similar internally, but they are so different from each other that the only similarity really is that they are both weighted and 88-notes. The M-Audio action has sharp edges, it's smooth but a little heavy and slow for some things (better than the TP100LR though), and it has a different travel and texturing. The PC4, which I think (?) you have too is lighter, faster, has more side-to-side wobble, has no sharp edges that I notice, has a different key finish, and a different travel. Different weighting and pivoting too. The PC4 has something that you can hear hit some pad or mechanism inside when playing, but the Hammer 88 Pro action does not do that. I'd say the Hammer 88 Pro action wins as being a little closer to an acoustic piano, but the PC4 action is better for playing lots of instrument parts. The PC4 seems to be ever so slightly harder to press down at the rear of the keys, but the Hammer 88 Pro action is totally even across the key front to back.

 

 

Thought you and others might find that interesting given how similar the actions seem physically!

[Fleer]

Yeah, thank you very much for that comparison. Was thinking about the M-Audio but not anymore. Love my PC4 though!

[tedsorvino]

Hi all. After 8+ months of daily use of M- Audio Hammer 88 (not Pro) for AP and EP vst, I would like to add my opinion.

 

It's not as light as CP 73 action (and the older Motif BH - which is a longer key action), but not as heavy as any Nord Fatar weighted action or any SL Fatar one. Much better than cheaper model (I mean below 800 euros- 1000 dollars) Yamaha GHS and Roland PHA. Not as light (and fun) as Kawai ES 110. More substantial than any Casio. But in general it shouldn't be compared to any plastic DP. This is a really pro metal construction. And it's way more appropriate for any stage or studio as a weighted keyboard controller because of the really excellent midi editor, specific capabilities and midi connectivity.

 

It's a very good and "quality" all around controller with balanced weighted hammer action (not graded action - really useful for controlling loads of vsts other than pianos) . Nothing to do with anything that M- Audio had produced before (I had the old keystation pro 88 - really horrible action but an excellent surface controller for its time). The only problem I have is that the action is not as even as I like it to be all along the key. Towards the end it feels heavier and uneven, and it becomes harder for some chords and bass note runs (especially for longer fingers) . I would also prefer longer keys.

[StevieDeepD]

I've had the Hammer 88 (non-Pro) for awhile now. I had heart surgery last year, and it's a little easier to haul around now that we're gigging again. After reading some comments from Escape Rocks in the MODX thread, I use it to control a MODX6, which provides all the sounds. I'll probably add my MainStage computer back in eventually, but it's pretty nice to set up with a small, light footprint. As for playability, I owned a D1, and I think the M-Audio is a little heavier touch, but it doesn't bother me.