tedsorvino

Thanks Stickman. I’ve ctually read all related pages on that dite. Very very helpful. I’m just looking for first hand experience since I don’t care about poly aftertouch (on a weighted keybed???) and I care about equally balanced and softer keybed action. Actually the display issue is sorted since it was just a bad reset issue and somehow the naming of some critical parameters was affected. Took some time to rename the but it’s sorted.

Hi all. I bought a second hand A 80 controller. i know it’s way too old and obsolete but It’s a good and very well constructed controller and I really don’t need it for poly aftertouch but mainly for piano duties. I feel like this one deserves some good care. Things work ok in general. But I’m facing a couple of serious issues. 1) Some keys seem to travel deeper and making a louder and very dry release noise (comparing to the other keys) especially the middle octaves (normal since they have been used the most) black ones , like there is very little felt cushion below them. I know it’s a noisy action overall, but these particular keys sound and feel like there is a problem. Is there any particular felt cushion I could use to replace the old one? Could it be a plastic-rubber key contact issue? Plastic-rubber contact problems usually have to do with velocity. 2) The previous owner replaced the display with a nice blue one, but for some of the sections some strange characters appear. Could it be a lithium battery problem or something related with the display replacement? Since I intent on making any repair myself (I have past experience and quite good knowledge and also because of the excessive weight of the controller) please give me any related advice. Thanks

Hi everyone. My problem is quite technical, but not Gem specific. I'm using a good working NO sustain pedal ( on my recently bought old Gem S2 Turbo. The setting in both pedal ins on the keyboard is for NO footswitch (this setting can be changed to expression- continuous) pedal and cc edit mode (cc 64). So the mode is not program or performance change, or step advance. The thing is that whenever I use the sustain pedal (simple footswitch for that cc), the sustain function works, but whatever value I'm in the keyboard jumps to the initial value. For example when I'm in performace ( sound etc) 5 it jumps to 1. When I'm in value settings On it jumps to the first one. And so on. Which makes the sustain quite unusable. The only way to use it is when it's used in performance 1 since it's in the initial performance position. The same inputs are used for expression pedals. And that way they function perfectly well. But there is no cc 64 on that mode. I'm quite technical so I cleaned the input jacks carefully. I also opened the keyboard and there is no obvious problem on that particular pcb. The same thing happens to particular button on the bank/performance keypad, but there is a workaround there with other controls, and I suspect these buttons need cleaning (since I haven't touch those pcbs yet). So my question is: What can be the cause of this problem? Could it be a sustain input transistor or something like a buffer Ic or even demuxer etc? Thanks for your time

After all I bought a used GEM S2 Turbo that sports the older version of TP8/S with Poly aftertouch assignable to anything. Action wise the TP8/S can be considered solid. Not very different to TP9/S (I owned a Prophecy for a long time), slightly slower and a bit more "piano" like. Very good. The action works in a completely different way to the usual rubber contact actions. Every key has a very thin spring "rod" that regulates the pressure. The rods can become slightly dirty and not move properly after a long period of heavy use but they can be cleaned. If they break they can be soldered. Highly improbable to find spare ones. In my case only 4 keys out of 61 have a slightly lower velocitym which is quite normal since we 're talking about a 30years old keyboard. But in general the Gem S2 Turbo is an affordable and very interesting keyboard, a very very good controller and the poly aftertouch is a miracle. I had to add a usb floppy emulator in order to save my set ups, because weirdly enough there is no inner memory.

It seems like I have to research the lightest and cheapest available solution from the older romplers that sport these actions I'm looking for. Luckily enough I know most affordable old models that have those. For your interest, TP/8s alternative is shorter than TP/8s, so it's not the same keybed at all. All available data regarding actions and models can be found easily and the prices for early- mid 90s models are quite modest. Especially since I don't care about their sounds and other features I may find something defective on other parts than midi out in a really good price.

I agree with AnotherScott, Delaware Dave. Most companies don't enter into too much detail regarding their parts. If you want more info please enter the Fatar site or make a google research regarding their actions and code names and specifications, on this or other fora. Thanks for your input anyways, but I'm absolutely specific on my question and I wouldn't like to have a thread regarding general fatar action questions or answers. It's either Fatar TP/8s or TP/8o or Yamaha FS (or similar), 61 or 70 something.

Thank you AnotherScott for another thorough answer on actions. Doepfer is always overpriced for casual and studio use, since it's made for heavy touring and pro stage use. Very trustworthy for these purposes IMO. So Novation 61 and VMK 161 are the ones I'm looking for on the used market. PS. Please provide a link on the info regarding the Novation and the VMK, just to make sure. Since by what I'm reading the Novation SL mk1 and 2 uses the Fatar TP/9s (which is quite lighter than the TP/8s - used to have it on my old prophecy, not bad, not up to the M1 or SY 77 heights), and the VMK plus is having a TP40 something.

Hi everyone. I'm aware of most older keyboards that sport this brilliant synth action, but I would like to ask if there is any controller (just board without sounds) with the Fatar TP/8s. 61 or 76 keys. Also any ideas about controllers with the waterfall TP/8o, since that action is also something I like. Please be specific only on those 2 particular Fatar actions since I know most other actions available by the italian company. By the way, is there anything similar (or really close) to the Yamaha FS action? I'm also aware of most older models that sport that one, but since weight is an issue and I don't want any 80s-90s sounds I would like to ask if there is something equally feelgood and solid on any midi controllers. Thanks in advance

This thread has helped me a lot so far on choosing keybeds. So after owning some keyboards I 've made my measurements following the OP ideas(and I 've a really good picture and first hand experience what these boards are all about). So I think I can add them if somebody cares about such things. I don't think action measurements really say a lot about an action feel, but they give an idea. M- AUDIO HAMMER 88 After owning the Hammer 88 for 6 months I aggree on the OP measurements. Downgeight: 73g - 71g throughout the keybed. Upweight: 47g. A really good and pro grade piano controller. The problem with the Hammer 88 action is the space between the keys. It's quite narrow. Especially if the player's fingers are not thin. But in general it's not bad at all - especially if we take under consideration that it's a cheap Medeli action. And it's a cheap keyboard anyways. The newer model has the newer triple sensor Medeli action. It feels identical. KAWAI MP6 I own the Kawai MP6 for 3 months. Really good action. Quite wide space between keys. Even better than the MP7 for piano duties (doesn't matter that it's a double sensor one). A bit heavier, otherwise very similar. Not good as an organ at all. The electric pianos are the highlight of this board. Downweight measurements: Lower side 92g, Mid Side 80g, Higher Side 74g. Upweight 47g all over the keybed. KAWAI MP 7 The last Kawai model on that plastic MP series is the MP7 and it has a triple sensor action. Otherwise it's very very similar action to the MP6 one (virtually the same) BUT instead of the very bass side, they 've placed a lower mid side in its place and they've extended the higher side towards the middle and added an even lighter higher side, if that makes sense. (I own the service manual for both MP 6 - MP 7 so this is something official). The Downweight measurements should start around 88g and finish around 70g. The Upweight should be around 45-47g It's made with the all-around player in mind (really good for organs too), that's why it's lighter. MP7 SE has exactly the same action. The only difference between MP 7 SE and the original model is only 3 newer and better sampled piano KAWAI MP11 Now I'm the owner of an original MP11 for about 2 months. The best PIANO action I 've ever played on a digital board. Great for pianos (acoustic and electric). Nothing else for this wooden action. Quite lighter than the VPC 1 (which has the same action as the MP10). That's why some classical piano players prefer the heavier VPC 1- MP 10 one. A bit limiting as a midi controller comparing to MP 6 - MP 7 but really capable at this end as well. The MP11 action has 4 different sides. Downweight measurements : Lower side 90g, Low mid side 86, High Mid Side 78, Higher Side 71g. Upweight measurement: 42g throughout the keybed. MP 11 action feels fantastically comparing to the excellent action of MP 6 (and MP 7) because it keeps the same weight all along the length of the long key. The space between the keys is not as wide as the MP6. But it's very very well balanced so even with fatter fingers it works greatly. The differences between MP 11 SE and the original model is 3 newer and better sampled pianos and a better optical (active) triple pedal.

Hi everyone. After quite a lot of research, I decided to buy a second hand MP6, the price and the state of the keyboard were perfect and it works equally really well as a midi controller and as a stage piano. The piano sounds (acoustic - electric) are more than good and it's really easy to do basic tweaking with really good results. Also, the velocity - touch customization is really great, if you understand the difference between sounds and setups and how the system works. But ...on the way the system is working is where I 've started to realize the problems appear. I think I would like to have - or better is needed- a dedicated MP 6 (or MP series) editor - librarian program in order to program the set ups, since the screen is really small and needs quite a lot of forward, backwards movement in order to program something correctly, and mistakes can easily happen. Of course nothing seriously bad can happen and the programming is not that difficult, but still it could have been easier - and I think it's easier on MP7 - MP 11. But anyways a software would make things much much easier. So since there is no dedicated Kawai program for any MP series keyboards (as far as I know), has any of you any idea, if there is any kind of midi quest, sound diver etc. type of "universal" librarian- editor program that is working in any degree with the MP 6? I say any degree because sometimes even if a keyboard is not in the software's fully supported keyboard list, some of its midi capabilities can be tweaked through the program. According to Kawai the MP6 can do sysex dumb but some users claim that the file format is not a common one. I would also like to ask if any of you have the specific MP6 service manual to share, (I can find online the MP4 one and it can give quite an idea of what goes on under the hood) since the instrument is old enough - regardless of how good its condition is at the moment- and certain simple problems may arise in the near future. I would be grateful if you can help me with one. Thanks in advance

Hi all. After 8+ months of daily use of M- Audio Hammer 88 (not Pro) for AP and EP vst, I would like to add my opinion. It's not as light as CP 73 action (and the older Motif BH - which is a longer key action), but not as heavy as any Nord Fatar weighted action or any SL Fatar one. Much better than cheaper model (I mean below 800 euros- 1000 dollars) Yamaha GHS and Roland PHA. Not as light (and fun) as Kawai ES 110. More substantial than any Casio. But in general it shouldn't be compared to any plastic DP. This is a really pro metal construction. And it's way more appropriate for any stage or studio as a weighted keyboard controller because of the really excellent midi editor, specific capabilities and midi connectivity. It's a very good and "quality" all around controller with balanced weighted hammer action (not graded action - really useful for controlling loads of vsts other than pianos) . Nothing to do with anything that M- Audio had produced before (I had the old keystation pro 88 - really horrible action but an excellent surface controller for its time). The only problem I have is that the action is not as even as I like it to be all along the key. Towards the end it feels heavier and uneven, and it becomes harder for some chords and bass note runs (especially for longer fingers) . I would also prefer longer keys.

Not a bad suggestion Ledbetter, but I have to admit that I was never attracted to hammond and drawbar organs as a player (I can take my farfisas) - I 've played and recorded with all the original ones. I do prefer electric and upright pianos (not even grands). And that particular Nord, even if I 've played it and feels brilliant for semiweighted action key, is really focused on organ players. Yes the price is good and it's a really pro quality instrument, owned by a fantastic player - close friend of mine, but I think it is more of an "exotic" board for not gigging casual piano players like me. I mean firstly I need a better solid, light - weighted keyboard with piano feel and sounds ( and as I mentioned before, as many connectivity options as possible for studio use), than the one I already own, then it may be something even closer to a good acoustic piano ( a Kawai style heavier thing) and then may be something "exotic" with semi weighted keys for a different flavor and new sonic experiences - I may even grow liking playing organs till then, since I love listening to them played by fantastic players. But not for now I think.

Very good thinking Scott. Unfortunatelly it's quite improbable to be able to play one at least from my group of musician friends. I may find some really experienced pro musicians who may have first hand experience with something from that series of mo-motifs-s 70-90xs with balanced action, from their past decade days. The only objection I've got is that Roland is my second favorite action and I quite disliked the panel with the pads and the batteries and the plastic construction is not ideal and shouts modern toy. And on the other hand possibly the Yamaha may be closer to my favorite action, their panel seem way more pro and their stylish metal constructions are pro grade. Sound wise as far as I've listened all have a ton of useless sounds (especially the yamahas) and few really good classic ones. I was never a fan of their DX 7 piano sounds (and I owned one 20 years ago). By reading all of their manuals the midi capabilities of all are more than decent. Roland has an edge there because it's a more modern machine. But the connectivity and the control capabilities of S70xs is beyond most current controllers. Mo8 can be found easier, so the prices can go quite low. What is a good current price for each one of these models in the used market?

Thanks Scott for your input. Even if I have another dedicated controller for program changes, with loads of sliders, buttons and knobs, I think front panel buttons and sliders is always a good option. But no way my main buying concern. Nowadays all these are more relevant in a live situation I think, since they can happen inside any modern DAW. As I mentioned before I'm really happy with my Hammer 88. A very simple and very well constructed weighted piano controller. The only thing I need is an even better, light (weighted) keybed that feels great to me, on a solid board, reliable connectivity, good midi functionality and some really good classic sounds on the side as a plus. Of course a nord style of interface - like the CP 73 or Nord- would be a different story.

Sorry Mike. But I don't ask for any other suggestions. I just need opinions on those particular models I mention on the OP. Thanks anyways. PS. My opinion on ES 110 is that it's a brilliant action but far from a pro board. No way a good controller. No velocity layers and many other midi capabilities. More of a great plastic toy or student board. Casio PX 5S is the only pro Casio PX and not of my liking. Not a better action than Hammer 88 IMHO. But that's beyond the scope of my post anyways.