arturia pigments 2 Team Test: Arturia Pigments 2

[Tusker]

I emailed a contact at Arturia regarding the Mini filter.

 

I spent last night re-creating some classic Moog basses including my version of Stevie Wonder's iconic TONTO bass sound from his early 70s output. The Multi-Mode filter works well.

 

That's great to hear. Loved that period.

 

[Tusker]

I wonder if the Mini filter is bugged because the output is at least 8db lower than the other filter models. And yes, the DRIVE control just seems to compress the signal... which is kinda what saturation does, but it should also add harmonics. Maybe the DRIVE isn't working correctly due to the low output?

 

The MultiMode filter seems the most Moog-like to me.

 

The oscillator output volume knob doesn't seem to have an intuitive relationship with resonance in any of the filter models. Increasing drive in the Mini filter scales back the filter resonance but doesn't add harmonics or low end the way one would expect. Perhaps some variables were mis-calibrated or eliminated when they ported over the code from the previous synths?

 

I have been keeping a log of the ways in which the Pigments analog engine doesn't quite exhibit behaviors I should expect from a hardware equivalent. These appear too numerous and detailed to have a productive conversation on the forum, but I imagine from a QC standpoint it could be helpful for someone to have a list. I am not sure what to do with them.

[Markyboard]

I've never attempted to duplicate a classic sounds like this on any synth but with my warped sense of failed humor I thought screw it, why not use the worst tool for the job?

 

LOL.

 

I love the way you tuned the throb beautifully with the audio rate modulation. Bravo. Soundcloud has it's limitations, so it's hard to draw conclusions. Still, how would you feel if I speculated that in this context the Pigments filter is a tad more accurate and the Massive modulations are a tad cleaner, but as digital tools, they are more similar then they are different?

This is a foolhardy brave attempt by both of us, and I owe you a beer.

 

I made a factual error in my original post, when I said that Pigments requires that you use an LFO. It doesn't. For clarity, the original post has been updated, so I wouldn't have to eat crow all over this thread, which it appears is now happening.

 

I re-read your description again and talk about eating crow... I was phase modulatnig one of the oscillators (wavetable single sample). The SVF I chose doesn't have an FM input, but a number of the other filters do. So I re-did the patch this morning and of course that took me to all kinds of places. Anyway this one's a little more burbly (2nd set of 4). I added on to yesterdays' samples and there's some more of my babbling in the Soundcloud description

 

Questions for you guys: Does a filter FM input modulate the cutoff or is it modulating the input/output of the filter? I would think the former but it sure doesn't sound that way to me.

 

Marky Soy Ya 2

 

 

 

[Jim Alfredson]

From one of the programmers at Arturia:

 

'This filter is exactly the mini V filter

 

there is no volume difference when the resonance is at 0

 

the Ladder filter is (in)famous for losing energy when cranking up the resonance

 

the Drive has a significant effect when the resonance is at 0, and less when it's higher, because the Drive is inside the filter circuitry.

 

it also dampens the Resonance because the signal is overdriven before the resonance feedback circuit, so it results in "less" resonance'

 

So there you have it.

[Tusker]

I re-read your description again and talk about eating crow... I was phase modulatnig one of the oscillators (wavetable single sample).

 

All these audio rate modulations are like cousins at the family reunion to me. You are going to get similar genetics and there are differences for AM, RM, bi-direction cross mod, filter FM etc. Each has their typical sideband profile. Still, so much depends on the signals being fed into the circuit that you can achieve similar effects a number of different ways. If it sounds good it is good, and you made it sound good.

 

I'm not at a place I can listen to the latest audio file, but looking forward to tonight.

 

Questions for you guys: Does a filter FM input modulate the cutoff or is it modulating the input/output of the filter? I would think the former but it sure doesn't sound that way to me.

 

I'm with you. It's the former. To me, modulating the filter cutoff has more potential for higher pitched sidebands to create bubbles, pseudo vocal effects, snarls. Modulating the input/output to a filter would be a type of amplitude modulation, emphasizing lower pitched sidebands (for a given signal pair). Depends on the context I think.

 

I like to do something like this to test a filter ...

 

[Markyboard]

From one of the programmers at Arturia:

 

'This filter is exactly the mini V filter

Never tried the mini V but I have no reason to doubt it.

 

there is no volume difference when the resonance is at 0

 

What, when cranking the Drive up? There's a huge difference - much lower volume/energy and attenuated highs approaching the max drive knob setting. They could have reversed the knob direction and I would have thought it to be more normal - seriously.

 

the Ladder filter is (in)famous for losing energy when cranking up the resonance

Of course - no dispute here.

 

the Drive has a significant effect when the resonance is at 0, and less when it's higher, because the Drive is inside the filter circuitry.

 

it also dampens the Resonance because the signal is overdriven before the resonance feedback circuit, so it results in "less" resonance'

 

Maybe it goes back to my comment about labels. Obviously the real mini doesn't have a drive knob but perhaps they should have labeled this one UNDERDRIVE.

 

 

So there you have it.

 

 

That's it, I'm revoking their driver's license!

 

Btw thanks for checking Jim. And in case people don't know of my sarcastic cynical nature I'm not really mad in the slightest(*). This is part of the fun in checking out these products.

 

* Just deeply disturbed

 

 

[Steve Nathan]

Late to the game, I just got it installed today (flawless on my 16" MBP/Catalina). Showed up in DP10 as expected without a hitch. Only had time to make sure it was working and whip through a few presets, but gut impression was that I was impressed by the sound quality. That said, it may be a good while before I can have any more to say. Those that know me, know that I'm earlobes deep into The AFM Pension cuts issue, and without slipping into politics, I'll just say that I get up every day with 29 hours worth of stuff to do. When I get a breath catching moment, I'll throw my 2cents in.

[Tusker]

Marky Soy Ya 2

 

Bravo Mark. Thanks for providing the insight of put the two next to each other (wavetable modulation versus wavetable + filter).

 

It seems to me that the modulation routing to the filter is lower resolution than the routing to the wavetable in Massive X. Does that sound like an accurate observation (pre-soundcloud) to you? It would make sense that Native Instruments focused first on bullet-proofing the wavetables, since wavetables are so DSP efficient.

 

Analog filters relish being tortured while digital filters don't.

[Markyboard]

Marky Soy Ya 2

 

It seems to me that the modulation routing to the filter is lower resolution than the routing to the wavetable in Massive X. Does that sound like an accurate observation (pre-soundcloud) to you? It would make sense that Native Instruments focused first on bullet-proofing the wavetables, since wavetables are so DSP efficient.

 

Analog filters relish being tortured while digital filters don't.

 

Good observation Jerry. But I think it's more because the oscillator modulating the filter is at half the frequency of that doing the phase mod. There's also some digital break up that could have to do with competing envelopes. That's one of the advantages of these soft synths; At least in Pigments and Massive X (Moog One also as I understand it) you can tweak the envelope shapes and such for days on end .

 

At one point I believe the selected filter FM was changing the tone frequency but I'm not hearing that this morning. This is why I asked about the Filter FM but it's very likely I had something else configured wrong. I can now fine tune that burble frequency/spacing. But I think I've beaten this one to death and then some.

 

And you're right on cue ...time to go torture some analog and perhaps even play some music while I'm at it.

 

[Tusker]

[And you're right on cue ...time to go torture some analog and perhaps even play some music while I'm at it.

 

Music is what drew us to these instruments in the first place brother Mark.

 

[Tusker]

It"s just a fad, they say. People are reconstructing the iconic THX Deep Note sound on all manner of synths. Pretty ridiculous. And since we are testing Pigments ⦠you knew I couldn"t resist.

 

But can a six oscillator synth sound like James Moorer"s 30 oscillator masterpiece? Not at all. It"s just a way of getting to know a synth, using just the one instance and nothing else.

 

So here is a Pigments version (a relatively quick sketch) and the patch (hold down the D below middle C for about 30 seconds). Do you like the sound quality of this synth? Please feel free to take this patch and play with it or improve it.

 

How to make the patch? Essentially it"s a giant D major chord, preceded by a lot of random movement. All of Pigments" Modulators (Envelopes, LFOs, Functions, Randoms and Combinates) ⦠were put to work. Super easy. Function 1 served as the 'traffic cop' for all other modulators ⦠allowing them about 12 seconds of random movement then gradually reducing their influence during the 6 second slide toward that D major chord.

 

I learned that:

 

- I really like Pigments as a sonic sketchpad. It"s fast.

- the control key is very helpful to fine tune parameters. (does anyone know if there is a way to type in parameters?)

- A minor quibble is that you can probably hear a slightly plastic quality when oscillator pitches change rapidly. You won't hear that if you are using analog control voltage, but it would likely take several analog synths to pull this off. I guess it's a reminder to all digital luthiers that it's worth using a higher resolution or a smoothing/lag algorithm when dealing with pitch. I haven't had a chance to investigate the "lag" function in the Combinate modulator. It could be there is a solution to this question there.

- Pigments sounds very clean and beautiful but if I was allowed to I would prefer to use third party EFX from a daw. I wish the EFX had more real world parameter values (like herz, dB, etc) to help the programmer.

- I do think that if someone really wanted to nail the THX sound, using multiple instances of Pigments, it would not be a challenge for this synth. There is a lot of power under the hood.

- the modulators are cool!

 

Comments?

[Jim Alfredson]

I made some Tomita-esque strings today in about five minutes. Just one analog engine with the unison voices turned up to 8 (so 24 oscillators) and some gentle comb filtering to emulate a resonator bank. It sounds really good! I agree with Tusker that as a sonic sketchpad, Pigments is extremely intuitive and fast.

[Tusker]

Just one analog engine with the unison voices turned up to 8 (so 24 oscillators) and some gentle comb filtering to emulate a resonator bank. It sounds really good!

 

Sweet! That comb filter is something else isn't it.

 

I just wanted to clarify a question for us Jim, since readers might wonder in what sense Pigments could be a six oscillator synth, when you accurately describe it as being able to generate 24 detuned oscillators in just one of it's two analog engines? How could it be both a six oscillator synth and a 24 oscillator synth? The question might arise ...

 

But can a six oscillator synth sound like James Moorer"s 30 oscillator masterpiece?

So here's the answer: Both are correct. It depends on the musical purpose of the oscillators.

 

If you are playing polysynth chords, you could use unison mode to detune all six oscillators obtaining the chorusing effect of up to 48 oscillators (3 oscillators X 2 engines X 8 voice unison). So if you are playing Jump or Don't Give Up, it's up to 48 oscillators as Jim says! Huge! But if you want each oscillator to buzz around independently as they do in Deep Note, unison mode introduces symmetrical pitch distances between oscillators. So you get six pitch centers plus a bit of extra wiggle by modulating the unison voice spread. This can make certain moments in Deep Note sound more like six note chords rather than 30 random oscillators. As I mentioned, you could utilize multiple instances of Pigments and mimic the 30 oscillator score precisely. Still, even restricting yourself to one instance, most would agree that Pigments can generate an impressive emulation. It's a powerful synth.

 

Phew, I hate to drag everyone into the weeds, but hopefully that provides a bit of insight and an answer to the question.

 

 

 

 

[Markyboard]

You guys ...what a bunch of geeks

 

(edit:) in case this is needed...

[Dr Nursers]

Just FYI - Luftrum have announced a soundbank for Pigments 2:

 

https://www.luftrum.com/luftrum23/

 

I think I shall be partaking.

[Doerfler]

I think I shall be partaking.

 

Please let us know what you think if you decide to purchase.

 

[Dr Nursers]

I think I shall be partaking.

 

Please let us know what you think if you decide to purchase.

 

Absolutely

 

[Jim Alfredson]

He's fantastic (Luftrum). I wonder if Electric Himalaya will do one? He was one of my favorite sound designers from Alchemy.

[Doerfler]

He's fantastic (Luftrum).

 

I wasn't familiar with him so I checked out his site. Seems like a very cool dude, raises lots of money for charity, has a family, not much ego.

[Markyboard]

Looks like version 2.01 was just released. I can't copy/paste from the release notes but you can see them in the Arturia Software Center tool.

[Tusker]

Looks like version 2.01 was just released. I can't copy/paste from the release notes but you can see them in the Arturia Software Center tool.

 

Thank you for this brother.

 

Release notes (from website)

 

V 2.0.1

 

New Features

Pigments 2.0 presets are now NKS compatible

No more time limit on user samples

Add non-voice-stealing poly mode

Sample engine crossfade has been improved

MPE support has been improved

Micro tuning support has been improved

Minor GUI improvements

 

Bugs

Sample loop points are now correctly saved

No more crashes with Ableton Live during preset scan

Parameter smoothing has been improved

Samples too quiet are no longer normalized

Poly aftertouch is working again

Minor bugixes for the function in loop mode

Free run sources are now reset by the sequencer on each start

 

[Markyboard]

After coming up with a hardware solution for the KC Brainstorming Modulations Thread I was curious to see how I would approach this in software.

 

I stated previously that the Pigments "Functions" are really cool. I would now say that used with the "Combinators" they are the answer to just about any type of modulation you could ever dream of. However, one thing I could not figure out is what setting the "gate source" to another function does; eg. function 1 gate source set to function 2. Seems there should be a threshold control associated with this but I'm probably not understanding something.

 

 

Anyway if you happen to be affected by switching to Daylight Savings Time this weekend rest assured, it has nothing on Pigments as far as lost time goes.

 

 

[Dr Nursers]

Well said Markyboard

 

My mini-review on the Luftrum sound set for Pigments is that:

 

(a) as always Luftrum do a beautiful job and this set is no exception

 

(b) there's enough 'new' stuff in there compared to the default Pigments 2 patches to make the price of the Luftrum sound set worth it. I'm not talking radically better or different but interesting enough to make me want to delve a lot deeper.

 

[Markyboard]

Thanks David. I like the way we each focus on our area of interest to give this product a thorough shakedown. If anything this tells me Pigments will keep just about anyone happily busy for a very long time.

[The Real MC]

From one of the programmers at Arturia:

 

'This filter is exactly the mini V filter

 

That explains a lot. Back in 2005 I played with the Mini-V at NAMM and as an owner of an RA Moog Minimoog I was unimpressed by their Minimoog filter.

 

When I was playing with Pigments I thought that lame anemic sounding "mini" filter sounded familiar... the same one in the unimpressive Mini-V.

 

there is no volume difference when the resonance is at 0

 

Which defeats the elusive "minimoog bass sound" because on a real Minimoog if you increase the resonance and spike the filter with the EG, the resonance actually decreases at the low extreme of cutoff frequency due to imperfections in the circuit. So as resonance falls off, the bass patch increases in volume. That's a big reason for the beef of the Minimoog bass, which Arturia defeated.

 

the Ladder filter is (in)famous for losing energy when cranking up the resonance

 

Infamy can be useful. Yes it loses energy with increased resonance. But in the digital domain where clipping is nasty, such "infamy" can keep the gain staging under control.

 

After dealing with health issues I'm finally getting around to exploring Pigments, and not all negative... more later.

 

 

[The Real MC]

Late start on the team review...

 

I haven't yet learned my way around Logic Pro to use Pigments as a plugin so I'm playing with Pigments as a standalone app with CME USB controller. Loaded on MacBook Pro (8GB RAM) and on MacPro (mid-2012 twelve cores with 96GB of RAM), both running OSX High Sierra.

 

I come from the prog/classic rock world with an extensive sound design background dating back to the 1970s. I initially browsed Pigments using the presets, then dove into creating my own sounds. I started with new preset with bare patch no FX, just the way I like it. FX are often the last modifier I apply, I prefer to achieve most of the sound design with the patch dry.

 

To test the intuitive design of the interface, I did my sound design while referring to the user manual as little as possible. Some actions required a referral to the manual but for the most part the interface is very intuitive.

 

I'm pretty much an outboard guy. I own Andromeda which is king of modulations in analog polysynths. Also own vintage analog monosynths & polysynths like Moog and Oberheim as well as plenty of vintage pro audio outboard FX. Pretty tough crowd here.

 

Pigments has a VERY extensive feature set, so today I focused on emulating my favorite analog sounds which I have no learning curve. As today was "learn my way around Pigments interface" day, I will explore other features later.

 

Don"t rely on Pigment's CPU meter, check the Activity Monitor app (OSX) or Task Manager (Windows) for the true load on the CPU. It was easy to approach 50% on my MBP with just one engine, and OSX struggled to run other apps like Safari while Pigments was open. MacPro did not suffer from this, it multithreaded merrily.

 

Be careful with laptops. According to what Activity Monitor reports, Pigments puts a heavy demand on the battery and it prevents sleep mode (for very obvious reasons). Always have the charger plugged in.

 

So let's start with the "acid test" of my sound design toolbox... choir patches test the modulations and quality of the filter resonance. If the filter(s) can get a decent choir sound, then they can pretty much do anything. It took some playing around to get good results; not great but the filters show promise. The least impressive was the anemic cold "mini" filter, and I own a vintage RA Moog Minimoog that is a tough customer. A choir patch will test the modulation because the modulation depth has to be real fine. I've played digital synths where the mod depth was too coarse and was unable to get a decent choir sound. Pigments does have fine enough resolution to meet this test.

 

When adjusting a control, I like the popup that tells me the value of the control. Nice for modulation depths.

 

THANK YOU for using REAL WORLD VALUES on the controls not just abstract values.

 

This is the first Mac application I used that doesn"t use cmd-S for a save operation. I intuitively reach for this but Pigments uses a different hot key (uh, is there one?). It dawned on me later that this may had been a deliberate decision because it is a plugin where cmd-S is reserved for the host DAW. Pigments does use cmd-Z for undo (Thank you!) but how about a hot key to revert to the selected patch after multiple edits (without pressing cmd-Z multiple times) so I don't have to move my mouse to the menu.

 

I like the level meter by the Master Volume, easy to glance if clipping internally. Handy for balancing the volume on my user library patches.

 

Envelopes: better name for 'ADR' is 'unconditional contour'. That initially confused me at first, and was one of the few referrals to the manual

 

One thing I REALLY don't like: VCA envelope resets to zero with repetitive strike on same key. VERY annoying with release tails like pads, calliope, celeste, tine pianos, choirs. Still searching the user manual how to correct that.

 

Analog Oscillators; With pulse waveshape, width control will not set <50%. There"s a world of sound design here that I can"t get to. Boooo. When I want to design patches that use PWM between <50% and >50%, LFO will not modulate pulse width <50%. Boooo.

 

For patches where I need filters with resonant color, 'Multimode' work better than 'SEM' (!). I own Oberheim polysynths (FVS, OBX, OBSX) and the Pigments SEM simulations have weak resonant color. 'Multimode' or 'Matrix 12' sounds closer to legacy Oberheims. Still need to play around more to find a filter that can approach my Memorymoog patches.

 

Formant filters are quite good! If only I could get an oscillator pulse width <50%â¦

 

LFOs: phase sync available? I have sound design tricks using two LFOs where frequency of both are controlled from master LFO, while the slave LFO is phase sync"d to get phase offset of 90deg, 120deg, 180deg, etc. When applied to oscillator pitches this gets a chorus effect that you can't get from a standard modulated delay.

 

How about LFO frequency tracking the keyboard⦠YES! Little known but excellent sound design trick from my toolbox.

 

Matrix 12 filter in 12dB lowpass⦠judas is that good for Oberheim brass sounds. Bump the pitch of one of the oscillators with the filter EG⦠FAT EG curves really help here. Matrix 12 LP 12dB sounds more authentic than the SEM LP!!! SEM BP works good for OB brass too. Some patch variation and add chorus FX: instant Rush 'Subdivisions'. Not an easy timbre to get outside a real Oberheim, much less a software synth⦠*applause* :clap:

 

I only wish the EGs had an extra D/S stage, but this is already powerful software.

 

Had to try "Tom Sawyer". First off, it's a unison multivoice sound. Pigments is halfway there, a big step towards authenticity is emulating the "imperfections" of the OBX that was the source of that sound. See, the OBX filters don't track very well between voicecards, and the EG timings aren't exactly the same either. But imperfections can be a good thing, as the imperfect tracking and EG timing resulted in high resonant filters sweeping out of sync, which gave "Tom Sawyer" that grinding timbre that sounds like a tablesaw cutting wood. To emulate these "imperfections", I searched Pigments for "voice number" modulator that could be use to offset filter cutoff or modulated the decay transient of the filter EG... no luck.

 

So far I like it. The more I use it, the more I like the interface especially with a trackpad as the only controller. This is the first synth plugin I've had major flight time with. I've sampled too many that came up short but Arturia had been listening to customer input and coming up with softsynths that are getting closer to the real thing (but that "mini" filter has to go...).

 

More to explore, more to come.

 

 

[Tusker]

Late start on the team review...

 

More to explore, more to come.

 

 

... and we are off again!

 

Awesome review!

 

It will be fun to kick around examples of when the extensive modulators can give us workarounds for any shortcomings in the synth engines (asymmetric PWM is a possible example) and when they cannot.

[Doerfler]

Michael, fantastic input and review.

[The Real MC]

Late start on the team review...

 

More to explore, more to come.

 

 

... and we are off again!

 

Awesome review!

 

It will be fun to kick around examples of when the extensive modulators can give us workarounds for any shortcomings in the synth engines (asymmetric PWM is a possible example) and when they cannot.

 

I'm pushing towards that boundary. While building choir patches I threw in quite a few subtle modulations. Used all three LFOs at different rates for pitch modulation, PWM. At low mod depths. Even tried a trick for a string patch where two LFOs (borrowing from the ARP String Ensemble: one at 1hz, the other at 6hz) are jointly modulating one oscillator. Route key note to decay rate for the Oberheim brass. I couldn't hear any glitching, but at the same time I'm not in a DAW and not using other processor heavy tools like FX yet. But the fact it could seamlessly pull off all those modulations... nice.

 

When I was on the Andromeda sound design/beta test team, I designed a decent piano sound - FOR AN ANALOG SYNTH. That used a LOT of modulation such that it reached the limits of the CPU, as it was the only patch that sometimes crashed the Andromeda. That's a future trial for Pigments.

 

Other reviewers lament at the lack of analog warmth. I was finding that too, until I hit on the Matrix 12 filter while testing for Oberheim brass. Now THAT'S analog warmth.

[Markyboard]

Michael, fantastic input and review.

 

 

+1!

 

 

 

 

How about LFO frequency tracking the keyboard⦠YES! Little known but excellent sound design trick from my toolbox.

 

No doubt some people don't know about it but on some synths it happens automatically when you assign an LFO to modulate the pitch or the external filter cutoff input.

 

Glad this thread is still alive. Still never heard about the strange oscillator pulse waveform that appears to have something else riding on top of it. Also the response that the low pass filter is "exactly the same" as the Mini V filter; the Mini V Filter doesn't have a drive control best I can tell from the manual so there's that .