Another Key Largo integration question

[SamuelBLupowitz]

I looked at a few of the older Key Largo threads, but nothing quite matched up with my questions and my needs, so I'm going to lay it all out in a new one.

 

My gig rigs have become relatively modular, since I play a wide variety of venues from clubs to outdoor festivals to corners of bars that don't actually have stages. So I'm anywhere from "multiple amps, a combination of vintage electromechanical and modern digital keyboards, and a laptop," down to gigs where I just have a single board. But my Motion Sound KBR-3D has been at the heart of all my rigs for the past few years; I run organ into the rotary inputs, other boards (or sounds routed separately) into the stereo clean channels, and the output from my Macbook running Mainstage into the direct stereo inputs in the back. I love having one multi-channel amp for convenience that also lets me put an actual air-moving rotary effect on the organ, and it mixes everything down (including internal mics on the horn) to two XLR outs in the back, so I can just run a stereo pair to the board without any need for a DI or extra channels.

 

Now that one of my bands started running IEMs, and I've never heard myself (or the band) better on a gig, I'm thinking that I could happily stop hauling any amplification at all to some of the smaller gigs. Bigger shows I'd like to keep using the Motion Sound, if only for the organ.

 

I'm thinking about if I replaced the Steinberg USB Audio/MIDI interface in my laptop case with, say, a Key Largo, how I might be able to make that work both with and without the rotary speaker on my gigs. I'm pretty sure the Key Largo can handle the audio from Mainstage over USB, and it can also take a MIDI cable from my Mojo to control various software instruments the way I've been with the Steinberg. That would still leave me with three stereo channels for my hardware boards (room to grow!).

 

Not sure about how much jury-rigging I'd need to do to output a mixdown from a rotary speaker INTO the Key Largo, though, if I was trying to keep my output to FOH to a stereo pair of channels and not add yet another mixer to my setup. The only outputs from the Motion Sound are XLR, and the inputs on the Key Largo are all quarter-inch. Don't know if I'd want to really get into Adapter Land there, but I'm open to suggestions and brainstorming. On those gigs using the Motion Sound, I suppose I could output the Key Largo to the Motion Sound as well, using the Key Largo's stereo (?) monitor outs, and continue to use the XLR outs on the amp for FOH, rather than the Key Largo. So it would basically be the same setup I currently have with the Steinberg.

 

Also, do any of you utilize the send/return of the Key Largo to use as a feed from the PA to your IEMs, or is that not really what it's for? Just curious if the Key Largo would also allow me to ditch the Behringer P2 headphone amp I'm using to receive my in-ear feed. I'm currently the only one in the band running in stereo, because I called dibs. :wink:

 

Anyway, this seemed like the right place to talk through some of these ideas, and potentially get some feedback and thoughts that would occur to me on my own. Thanks all!

[Stokely]

Whew, that seems complex...I can't be much help despite owning a key largo, since I have simplified my own setup. I haven't yet tried to use the interface, but ironically I want to test it out both with an old macbook that isn't being used much and with an ipad. Not optimistic it will work with the ipad but one way to find out!

 

I'd probably go with adapter cables if you end up going from amp to KL and avoid those end-of-cable adapters. I had something similar made up at Redco using their custom cable thing. The downside to cables with the ends is that you probably don't have a bunch of those as backups sitting around.

 

I used to run a submixer with a pre-fader send on it specifically to combine both keys and a FOH monitor mix (without keys) for in-ears. The KL wouldn't work for that since the send is post fader, not sure if that is the goal. Also ironically, I'm currently using the P2 as well, but I get EVERYTHING (keys and all) back from FOH. The KL only submixes to FOH right now. It works well since we now have a digital mixer where I can control my own mix easily.

 

Sorry I can't be of more help. I don't have anything like the amp you have in my rig and that seems to be the complicating factor.

[mate stubb]

I'd use a small direct box to get the leslie signal into the mixer.

 

The aux return of the KL is not suitable for FOH returns, because you can't prevent the FOH signal from going back out the main and monitor outputs and you'll get a loop. That is the reason I switched to the KL-8, which has a switch to remove the aux return from the main output.

 

In order to combine FOH with your own signals for your personal monitoring, you need an extra small mixer, or combine the signals in your P2.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

Whew, that seems complex...

Yeah, I've learned that I actually enjoy the "puzzle" aspect of this sort of thing; I find it really satisfying to Give My Creation Life.

 

I used to run a submixer with a pre-fader send on it specifically to combine both keys and a FOH monitor mix (without keys) for in-ears. The KL wouldn't work for that since the send is post fader, not sure if that is the goal.

Right, I'm realizing that running an aux feed from the PA back INTO the Key Largo would create a horrifying Feedback Loop of Doom, and we don't want that! The effects send/return adds to the main stereo output; it doesn't work the way that a separate monitor in/out would.

 

Also ironically, I'm currently using the P2 as well, but I get EVERYTHING (keys and all) back from FOH. . . . It works well since we now have a digital mixer where I can control my own mix easily.

Yes, that's the situation I currently have with the P2, and it works fine. I was just keeping an eye out for opportunities to minimize little gadgets as I accumulate big gadgets. As I said above, I like the puzzle. :grin:

 

Sorry I can't be of more help. I don't have anything like the amp you have in my rig and that seems to be the complicating factor.

No apology necessary, this is exactly what I was looking for. I actually think the amp wouldn't complicate things too much because it has those XLR outs and quarter-inch ins, which means I could send the Key Largo INTO the amp from its Monitor Out if I wanted to merge it with the actual rotary speaker signal. I'd just be doing my final summing to stereo from the amp, not the Key Largo. Now, what would change that is if I decided to use an actual Leslie in place of the Motion Sound... but that's been discussed on another thread.

 

[SamuelBLupowitz]

I'd use a small direct box to get the leslie signal into the mixer.

 

The aux return of the KL is not suitable for FOH returns, because you can't prevent the FOH signal from going back out the main and monitor outputs and you'll get a loop. That is the reason I switched to the KL-8, which has a switch to remove the aux return from the main output.

 

In order to combine FOH with your own signals for your personal monitoring, you need an extra small mixer, or combine the signals in your P2.

Perfect, everything I needed to know. Thanks!

 

[nursers]

Yep what mate_stubb said: I had the exact same IEM issue as you Samuel and upgraded to KL-8 and love it to bits

[danstein]

The only outputs from the Motion Sound are XLR, and the inputs on the Key Largo are all quarter-inch. Don't know if I'd want to really get into Adapter Land there, but I'm open to suggestions and brainstorming.

 

I don't own one, but it looks like the Key Largo inputs are balanced 1/4-inch. So going from XLR outs on the Motion Sound into the 1/4-inch inputs doesn't require an "adapter" per-se, just a cable with (female) XLR on one end, balanced (TRS) 1/4-inch plugs on the other. Maybe that's a pedantic difference, but cables like that are not hard to come by. And unlike real adapters, they don't increase the likelihood of poor connections/signal loss.

 

I don't know if that helps you solve your set-up, but thought I'd point it out.

[Stokely]

All good stuff. I'm sure you have your methods down, but what really helps me with planning stuff like this is drawing out signal flow. I do this sort of thing for work too with databases so it's kind of second nature Writing down the flow of signal and the types of connections at each point has both uncovered flaws in my thinking at times, and showed me simpler shortcuts to what I was thinking. Hard to keep it all my head I guess.