Roland RD-88

[LX88]

Still fiddling with the PHA 4 action at Costco.

 

How do you like the key texture ? That us one thing I am noticing...its different.

 

Dont know if I will be seeing RD 88 anytime soon.. For Now Costco about the only game in town for anything Roland

[LX88]

Has anyone determined whether or not thal sample is the same as FP10/30/60 ?

 

I guess I don't have anything better to do other than wonder whether this is or isn't a Santa Claus.... During the Covid 19 19 down time.

 

Guitar Center seems like a sinking ship at this point but it was the only place we had to demo gear. Not that I would have seen an RD 88 anyway. GC was often light on Roland offerings.

[LX88]

Picked up an FP10 at Costco. The PHA 4 action feels good to me.

 

Also... The headphones that come in the Costco bundle seem surprisingly good. ISK HP 2000. They sound good with both FP10 and the vintage RD300gx

 

I am jealous of you guys with RD 88s....but I will not buy sight unseen.

 

More comments on Costco thread...thumbs up PHA 4.

[allan_evett]

Here is an update I just posted at the RD-88 thread in the MPN GearLab reviews:

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3072886#Post3072886

[ChazKeys]

Just bumping this thread - has anyone managed to load an EXZ expansion into the RD88? The only Expansion that doesn't give me Incorrect File error is the pre-installed Stage Piano 1 - had to delete it first then re-install. I have deleted the licences, done a Factory Reset, even tried installing Fantom expansions. 

 

 

Even 'downloading' a bank from Roland Cloud is a pain because all the Expansions except Stage Piano 1 are in the category Multi-series. That means they install into Zenology so you have to root around on your computer to find the EXZ file. On Mac it's in the Application Support/Roland Cloud folder. On a PC you will find it inside Users/AppData/Local/Roland Cloud.

 

The Roland video Sep 2020, is out of date because you don't see a list of expansions for RD88 only for the Multi-Series and if you do click on install that's just what it does. No  File Save button appears. Current OS is 1.13. I suppose 99% of users aren't going to bother but there are a couple of sounds I'm after in those Expansions.

 

I have had no problems importing sounds from Zenology sound banks. So at least that works.

 

This is a screenshot from the video showing the Expansions for the RD-88:

 

 

 

This shows how it looks now - note the 3rd entry for the EXP001 Stage Piano 1 for RD88.

Anyone?

 

 

 

 

 

[Fleer]

Did you purchase the versions for your RD-88? If you’ve got Zenology Pro, they’ll work in your DAW but not in your hardware unless explicitly bought. 

[ChazKeys]

No I just have Z-Pro. Where can you buy them? They are not listed on the Axial site.

 

Here's another screenshot from Roland Cloud:

 

 

Confused

[Fleer]

I believe you should check under Hardware in Zen Pro. 

[Fleer]

If this doesn’t help, try sending a PM to Brian McLelland in GearSpace. He’s a Roland Cloud webmanager of sorts. 

[ChazKeys]

Thanks I'll get in touch with him. I have contacted Roland Support so I'll wait on their reply first. Under hardware in RC it says "Available in you LIbrary" but you also have the option of buying a Lifetime Key. I wonder if I bought a Key for say Vintage Keys, it would provide a download link like the one for Piano 1 RD-88? $19.99 worth a punt?

 

 

 

[ChazKeys]

BTW if anyone uses CTRLR I have started making a panel for the RD-88 - mainly for quick and basic editing. If anyone's interested in a copy when it's finished let me know. 

 

Progress so far:

 

[ChazKeys]

7 hours ago, Fleer said:

If this doesn’t help, try sending a PM to Brian McLelland in GearSpace. He’s a Roland Cloud webmanager of sorts. 

 

Thanks for your help Fleer - I finally worked it out. You just have to buy a lifetime key then a Download link appears in Roland Cloud. My problems with this stems from thinking all the Expansion were free! Maybe they were back in 2020 - anyway it's not obvious how to purchase them for the RD-88 but I know how it works now!!

[Fleer]

Yeah, that’s how I thought about it (but wasn’t clear in my wording). Great to know it works!

[ChazKeys]

4 weeks into owning the RD-88 and very impressed with the power to price ratio. £919 from Thomann. The action is far superior to the CP73 it replaced - shame they don't sell a 73/76 version. But remarkably compact for an 88. The CP73 keys felt really cheap and they were stating to 'clack' - that's when I discovered they weren't individual keys just like the P121/125. RD88 is easier to play than the RD-64 and the action is lighter than the (stiff) Nord E6 waterfall keybed. Built in speakers are a big bonus for me too. Of course if Acoustic Piano is your thing then the CP wins.

 

I having been working on an editor because the interface for such a powerful machine is terrible. I'm surprised Roland even bothered to provided so many editable parameters as it is too long winded to access them - the Parameter Guide runs to 63 pages.  I understand why there are 90 MFX effects, 7 Reverb models etc. as it maintains compatibility - but how many users are actually going to adjust the Diffusion parameter on the Integra7 Plate Model? 

 

Of course you can use Zenology Pro to create patches and export them - works fine but they don't always sound identical. Probably because you have System Effects, Master EQ etc in the RD-88 that might need adjusting or turning off.  Anyway Zenology -> RD88 is another feature that needs more research. For instance, how does ZenCore deal with a 4 partial tone inside the RD88? TBC

 

I wish Roland had released an iPad editor AND made the USB interface class compliant. Real pain switching between Generic/Vendor. But if you can't justify/afford an RD1000 or Fantom it's an OK compromise.

 

A few pics from my iPad editor - I reckon it would need around 10 pages(!) to cover all the functions - 3 Internal zones, 3 External zones, Scene effects, System effects, IFX, Sympathetic Resonance, Master EQ, Compressor etc.

 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

3 hours ago, ChazKeys said:

Zenology -> RD88 is another feature that needs more research. For instance, how does ZenCore deal with a 4 partial tone inside the RD88? TBC

 

Aren't all ZenCore tones based on 4 partials? That would cover all the sounds in the RD88 except the SN piano/EP, and all the Zenology stuff that is not SN or a model expansion (IOW, everything there that is compatible with the RD88).

 

Nice work on that iPad editor. What environment did you use to create it? I'm hoping to see someone do something for the AX-Edge, where Roland's iOS editor is so lame.

[ChazKeys]

[Aren't all ZenCore tones based on 4 partials? ]

 

That's right! I keep forgetting that many of the Sounds are Zen Core and not just samples. That's why you can hear phase sync and PWM on some of the synth sounds - although that could be done with a wavetable.  I intend to create some complex analog patches in Zenology and see how they port to the RD88.

 

[UPDATE]  The penny has dropped! I am finally getting to grips with Zenology and the RD88. Most recent patch: 106 PWM synth pad with various parameters mapped to the assignable knobs on the RD-88. Didn't realise you could map those to synth parameters on the RD. Very cool.

 

The iPad editor I still use is TB Midi Stuff.  It has not been updated for 7 years and only works iOS 12 or earlier. Fortunately, my iPad Mini 2 is still going so that's OK. The App is still available for download but you do need an older iPad. TBMS is very good at handling Roland SysEx and it supports custom images for controls via file sharing if you want to create your own drawbars, faders etc. It has so many features that I haven't seen on other editors. Custom tooltips is another that springs to mind.  

 

There was news a while ago about V3:

 

http://www.tbstuff.com/2020/07/31/tb-midi-stuff-v3/

[AnotherScott]

9 hours ago, ChazKeys said:

[Aren't all ZenCore tones based on 4 partials? ]

 

That's right! I keep forgetting that many of the Sounds are Zen Core and not just samples.

 

I think they use the ZenCore nomenclature to encompass both the VA synth sounds (essentially an updated SuperNATURAL Synth) AND the sample-based sounds. And the 4-partial architecture is common to all of it.

[ChazKeys]

Just a note about using the RD88 as controller keyboard.

 

 You can set Midi channel and key range BUT you cannot transpose the note out. Coarse Tune is an option but that is an RPN  message not recognised by many devices.

 

I reckon this works fine with another Roland device but could be an issue if you want to use this as a controller for an iPad.

[AnotherScott]

5 hours ago, ChazKeys said:

You can set Midi channel and key range BUT you cannot transpose the note out.

 

So if you hit the front panel Transpose button, are you saying that the internal sound transposes, but the MIDI Out remains at the original pitch?

[ChazKeys]

9 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

So if you hit the front panel Transpose button, are you saying that the internal sound transposes, but the MIDI Out remains at the original pitch?

No -  if you Transpose the keyboard then MIDI Out notes are also transposed - so that's OK. The problem is there is no Transpose or Note Shift in the External Zone Edit page. Only Coarse Tune - which is not the same as Octave Shift or Transpose. The CP88/73 have an Octave Shift and a Transpose in the Zone setting page. But on the RD if you want to control an external synth there is no way to shift the octave up or down - you would have to do it at the synth end.  A bit of an oversight given the number of  other Zone edit parameters that are available. Only a problem if you are thinking of using it live as a controller.

[AnotherScott]

4 hours ago, ChazKeys said:

The problem is there is no Transpose or Note Shift in the External Zone Edit page. 

 

Ah, yes, The lack of an octave shift parameter for an external zone is indeed a surprising (and unfortunate) absence. That's another big surprise for me, after learning it has no 5-pin MIDI In.

 

The CP88/73 you mention has a somewhat related MIDI limitation of its own... it has the problem I mentioned in my previous question. If you hit the front panel transpose button, the MIDI Out remains at its original pitch. You can get around it by making the adjustments you talked about in its Zone settings page. But that only helps if you're setting things up in advance. If, on the fly, a singer asks you to drop a song a whole step, and you hit the button, the internal sounds will transpose, but the external sounds will not.

[ChazKeys]

Update on RD88 editor I started creating with TB Midi Stuff. I know the RD88 has been out a few years now but the power under the hood is impressive. However, the interface makes it almost impossible to access its features. You can get quite quick at basic edits like keyboard mapping but trying to adjust the effects is too long winded for most people. Part of the the problem is the sheer number of effects slots. If this has been covered earlier I still think it's worth repeating.

 

System Effects has 4 slots - Chorus/Delay + Reverb + EQ + Comp. 

Scene Effects has 4 slots - Chorus/Delay + Reverb + Insert Effects (91 in total) + Sympathetic Resonance

Zone Effects x 3  has 2 slots - Master Effects (91 in total) + EQ

 

The sheer number of effects and routing possibilities is mind boggling. I have only really got to grips with it after creating the editor. I still have 2 panels to complete for Upper 2 and Lower MFX.  

 

I gave up on adding the 3000 tones/sounds. Because of the category feature it is actually relatively painless to look for and audition sounds.

 

I'll add a screnshot of  Canvas layout in TBMS at some point. Just to repeat only works up yo iOS12. I ended up buying an iPad 4th Gen running iOS10 because the editor is stable on that version.

[allan_evett]

Hey, fellow RD-88 followers... I've checked in on this thread, from time to time, though my original RD took a permanent journey to a new owner - a little over a year ago. I replaced the RD-88 with a YC88 for my main stage piano, though I did pick up a Casio PX-S3100 this past summer. Having a lighter 88 with on-board speakers was still a missing item in my toolbox, and for that the core piano sound and playability of the PX is very strong.  But the onboard control setup (especially assignable pedal choices) and MIDI capabilities fell short for my use right now. Great stage piano though, and a big thanks to Mike Martin and staff at Casio for their help! And my CT-S500 remains an awesome teaching tool and super-compact live keyboard. 

 

So it's back to an RD-88, inbound as of today.  I do have a full back-up of my original RD, so that'll restore everything to where I left off in 2021.  Apparently the MIDI Designer Pro 2 RD app is now complete, plus there's the new app ChazKeys has been developing; so I'll be wanting to dive in to those.  And I will no longer joke about my KC brother Tonysounds' repeated adventures with the Nord Stage.

[Fleer]

Welcome back, Kotter

[Fleer]

Just to be sure: can anyone confirm that the RD-88 has the full Zen-core engine with four partials per tone?

[Ibarch]

4 hours ago, Fleer said:

Just to be sure: can anyone confirm that the RD-88 has the full Zen-core engine with four partials per tone?

 

Yes it does. 

[RDM]

 

[MarkusB47]

Sorry to bump this topic but great info on the RD88 which I’ve been monitoring for awhile. I have a question that I haven’t seen answered in my research so hopefully the RD88 owners here can help. I understand you can change the USB to Generic so that the RD88 can work with an iPad but does this mean it can serve as an audio/midi interface? In other words, if I connect an iPad, can the RD88 control apps as well as receive audio from them and pass that audio to its audio out jacks. I’m currently using an RD64 connected to an iConnectAudio4+ audio/midi interface. This gets me the midi control of apps but I have to use separate audio outs to hear the iPad sounds through my amp. I would like to do away with the iConnectAudio4+ if possible (one less item for gigs). My Korg Kronos can do this with a single USB cable so all my sounds both from the Kronos and iPad go through the Kronos output jacks. Can the RD88 do this? I hope I explained things well enough so you see my end goal. Thanks for any help/clarity you can provide.

[Ibarch]

2 hours ago, MarkusB47 said:

Sorry to bump this topic but great info on the RD88 which I’ve been monitoring for awhile. I have a question that I haven’t seen answered in my research so hopefully the RD88 owners here can help. I understand you can change the USB to Generic so that the RD88 can work with an iPad but does this mean it can serve as an audio/midi interface? In other words, if I connect an iPad, can the RD88 control apps as well as receive audio from them and pass that audio to its audio out jacks. I’m currently using an RD64 connected to an iConnectAudio4+ audio/midi interface. This gets me the midi control of apps but I have to use separate audio outs to hear the iPad sounds through my amp. I would like to do away with the iConnectAudio4+ if possible (one less item for gigs). My Korg Kronos can do this with a single USB cable so all my sounds both from the Kronos and iPad go through the Kronos output jacks. Can the RD88 do this? I hope I explained things well enough so you see my end goal. Thanks for any help/clarity you can provide.

 

No, the RD-88 needs a driver in order to have USB Audio. This works for mac and Windows but not for iPads. IPads only get USB Midi. 

[MarkusB47]

Thanks for the quick reply, Ibarch. That’s disappointing. Roland still seems reluctant to open that door. It was the only reason I didn’t pick up the RD2000 which was even more disappointing as I love that interface.