ot: BiLL Cosbys Comment

[henryrobinett]

Oh my god. I forgot. The Brokaw Company were briefly my PR firm! Melinda Slade . . . .

[henryrobinett]

Originally posted by nhcomp45@aol.com:

Nobody wants history to repeat itself. The Jews will never forget but they don't hate the modern day germans. The Blacks do hate the modern day Whites,and I didn't say to forget about it is the right thing.

Paul - I too am black. I don't hate white people. Most blacks I know don't hate white people. That's a blatant and false generality.

[henryrobinett]

Originally posted by Nawledge:

 

Henry, bout those sagging jeans, my father told me people were doing that way back in the fiftys and that it was nothing new, are you saying you never heard of it before gang culture/ youth culture?

I never knew nuttin' 'bout no saggin in the 50s. I was in the 60s. I'll ask my mom. She was mainly the 40s. I never heard of it before gang culture. Now zoot suits, yeah. Drapping, loose fitting pants, yeah. But no saggin'.

[henryrobinett]

Jode - I think, as usual we're on opposite sides of the poles on this one; so opposite we probably see more eye to eye than I'm comfortable with.

 

I don't believe in a victim mentality. It gives way too much power over to the perpetrator. I ain't nobodies mother fucking victim. But there is such a thing as racism. There are assholes and racists of every color and stripe. It's all about personal responsibility. I would like to see more white people take MORE personal responsibility, but I'm not waiting. It's like getting punched full on the jaw. I'm not going to lie down crying, waiting for the strings of sympathy to ring. I'm not going to whine about it and hope that the guy who punched me realizes what a cruel blow it was and give me his hand and apologize. FUCK HIM. He's an asshole. He's going to have to come up to any realization all on his own. I'll remind him once in awhile on my trip to the bank.

 

But if you're not part of the solution you're still part of the problem. Human values. Gangs. Niggah this and niggah that. Self loathing. Language. Guns. Misogyny. Ripping off your brothers. These videos suck.

 

I love people regardless of color. I have a special interest in black people. I see systematic, institutionalized racism every where. But it's we, ourselves that are doing ourselves in. We're playing right along. We're making it easy for the racists. They're going, "See? I told you so!"

 

Personal responsibilty means you look to yourself first before you start casting blame to others. Fix it in the mix? No. Fix it before the mix. Fix it in the tracking. I've been working on myself for years when that 60s vernacular brominde hit home with me: if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. I try to take responsibilty for my actions. I'll first look to myself with any conflict I may have. What did *I* do? What can I do? What happened, happened. I'm certainly not into letting anyone off the hook for their actions, but that's their karma. They have to deal with it. I have to deal with me. I have to deal with my people. As the circle of resposibilty widens I can take more and more responsibility for others as well, but it STARTS at home.

[videoeditor1]

So, is anyone up to providing a three sentence summary on Mr. Cosby's main argument?

[Duddits]

I know I may just be a cat, but look at all the things we can say to dilute Cosby's point --

 

Jeff: It's a class thing and an age thing, not just a race thing (yes, but...)

 

Nawledge: It's a discrimination thing, not just a responsibility thing (yes, but...)

 

Jedi: problems within the black community cannot be seperated from societal problems (yes, but...)

 

CP: Cosby shouldn't air dirty laundry in public (yes, but...)

 

All the "Yes Buts" are true. No one disputes that. But at some point it has to be OK to criticize failures within the black community without diluting them with an endless stream of "Yes Buts."

 

Although it may seem harsh (witness the backlash), Cosby's message is based on a belief that blacks can succeed as much as anyone else, whereas the "Yes Buts" often seem to say just the opposite. They say, the obstacles are out of our hands, and cannot be overcome. He says: get a grip, get yourself together, and look at what you can achieve.

[CP]

Henry, one of the problems with airing stuff publically, is that it empowers some to say what's on their heart, even though they don't have good intentions. Especially, when it comes to issues within a race or culture. For example, Bill Cosby's statements, as a whole, hit across a very broad segment of our community. A segment that alot of people would be happy to do without. So now that he has said this pubically, it is very easy now for a White person to come along and say, "See, I told you ......, even Bill Cosby agrees with me". They are not seeing that Mr. Cosby sees it from a different view than they do. That's my problem with him saying it pubically. Furthermore, in the example you gave about being the victim, it doesn't remove the fact that you are still the victim. You may not want to see yourself that way, or others to see you that way, but it doesn't change the fact that you are the victim.

 

Peace.

[Mr.WOW]

I know I may just be a cat,

Are you sure about this?

[Nawledge]

Originally posted by Nawledge:

The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting."

 

"People putting their clothes on backward: Isn't that a sign of something gone wrong? . . . People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn't that a sign of something,

 

. . and got all type of needles (piercing) going through her body? What part of Africa did this come from? We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don't know a . . . thing about Africa."

 

"With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap,

 

Brown versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem.

 

 

They are standing on the corner and they can't speak English."

 

"We as black folks have to do a better job. . . . Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us. We have to start holding each other to a higher standard."

 

People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake and then we run out and we are outraged, saying, 'The cops shouldn't have shot him.' What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand?"

 

" [/b]

this is not his entire statement, but I wanted to do an experiment the opposite of what most of the media is doing, most of them are not printing these statements that he said which I find rediculous, these statements don't bother some people, I think those people especialy since they only quote the other comments in his statement aren't dealing with the truth of Cosbys statement, there is nothing 'right' about some of these statements, only henry has explained why he feels what he feels about them, everyone else who supported cosbys comment didn't even mention them.

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by henryrobinett:

I would like to see more white people take MORE personal responsibility, but I'm not waiting.

Henry, I've asked a few people this before and never really gotten an answer. WHAT exactly would you like to see more white people do in terms of taking personal responsibility?

 

I try to do what I can to be an example of a person who isn't racist, and to call out racists when I see them. Beyond that, I'm not sure what I can do. I'm only a second generation American and a Jew at that... my family came here as well because we were persecuted and enslaved. And I know that anti-Semitism still exists even in the U.S... but I don't have any idea what to do about it and it doesn't seem to be affecting my ability to get on with my life and succeed. There will always be racist/sexist jerks in the world and some will never stop being jerks, while others won't stop until they see enough examples of who are happy and successful and don't care what they think.

 

So what else can we do?

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by Duddits:

I know I may just be a cat, but look at all the things we can say to dilute Cosby's point --

 

Jeff: It's a class thing and an age thing, not just a race thing (yes, but...)

True, totally true.

 

Again, Cosby was very clear who he was addressing. When I was reading it, I found that if I shifted the context slightly, I could hear a person of any race saying many of the things he said. That, really was my point: much of Bill's speech was entirely reminiscent of the classic rant of an older person bemoaning the cultural shift of the youth which they find distasteful or uncomfortable to their generation.

 

So, yeah. But.

 

- Jeff

[Nawledge]

Duddits nice post, i understand what you're saying but I think an important thing to not only not forget but to project is that all of the 'yes buts' you listed are all different points of view, not a lump of the same dilutions.

for instance you say theres truth, well the truth

cannot be a dilution its just truth as valid as what was truth within cosbys comment, the problem

I have is with the things I listed in the experiment above. he generalized, and in some places was down right wrong. baseball caps, peircings not only is there nothing wrong with baseball caps and piercings but they're more a part of white culture than black culture, yet jode is not mad at white people for them.

 

how black people name their children? henry believes that it was humour but the main thing about 'the cosby comment' was that he wasn't joking, he was angry and like jode said tirading, he's a comedian but this was not an act

 

telling people that their are no piercings in africa? wtf is cosby talking about....there are.

telling people they don't know nothing about africa, or that their not africans, something else that jode doesn't find offensive but I find it an alarming statement, crude and without right.

[Nawledge]

be back later

[henryrobinett]

Henry, I've asked a few people this before and never really gotten an answer. WHAT exactly would you like to see more white people do in terms of taking personal responsibility?

Lee - I think it's a sign of the respect I have for you that so far yours is the first post I've read since my last. No slight on you at all CP. I respect you too. Didn't see any other posters names other than WOW. Nuff said. LOL. Just kidding wow.

 

Lee I think you're doing it. Speaking out when you see it. Not participating in the degrading types of jokes. Recognizing that there's problems in the first place. Recognizing that the shrapnel of lost and wounded kids and lives are a symptoms of the processes involved in pulling ourselves up and attending to our own walking wounded. It's a process.

 

That we've got to try and fix ourselves. This applies to everyone. Know though that help is welcome. That acknowlegement of the crimes go along way towards healing. Most of us have lynching or something simlar racist debacle in our histories. That denying guilt, denying culpability only enrages. Sometimes the only thing you can do with an angry man is to acknowlege and continue to acknowlege until he can calm down. Understand. That's all most black people want. They want their plight to be acknowleged, appreciated and understood. That when the pain get unbearable and when a black person starts unloading about the cruel world the best thing to NOT do is to roll your eyes and get angry and tell him you had nothing to do with it. Hell! He knows that! That person doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about. The best thing one can do is listen. Listen and let him/her know you are listening. And ask questions if you don't understand. You might have too hold on to your jacket, but it'll be OK. Once he/she realizes you're not his/her enemy; that you really are concerned - that's all. The world hasn't been this way since a brief moment in the 60s.

 

Life is a series of personal encounters. This is the only way things are going to change. I think people forget. That's all the world really is. It's not TV, or the news or magazine or internet articles. It's our personal involvement and encounters with each other. Respect , decency and responsibility. That's all anybody really wants.

[henryrobinett]

Originally posted by CP:

Henry, one of the problems with airing stuff publically, is that it empowers some to say what's on their heart, even though they don't have good intentions. Especially, when it comes to issues within a race or culture. For example, Bill Cosby's statements, as a whole, hit across a very broad segment of our community. A segment that alot of people would be happy to do without. So now that he has said this pubically, it is very easy now for a White person to come along and say, "See, I told you ......, even Bill Cosby agrees with me". They are not seeing that Mr. Cosby sees it from a different view than they do. That's my problem with him saying it pubically. Furthermore, in the example you gave about being the victim, it doesn't remove the fact that you are still the victim. You may not want to see yourself that way, or others to see you that way, but it doesn't change the fact that you are the victim.

 

Peace.

OK CP. I DO see what you're saying. But I think the main thing that keeps the bullshit in the air is the continual lies that bandy about. Lies confuse because they hide/mask - you can't really place where the bullshit REALLY is without astral travelling or reading minds. It harms us more than it does an outsider looking in. It's time to take the masks off. I've found that when the process is followed till it's conclusion, if one person takes off the mask eventually your opponent will too, unless he's just purely evil or psychotic. Pure honesty is always best. Always.

 

Yes people might interprete Cosby differently. That is if we don't open the door and show how those statements can be similar or dissimilar. I am kind of in a panic mode here. I don't care who thinks what as long as we cure the cancer. We've got to shake ourselves awake.

 

Victim - No, I disagree. I've really worked over this concept for some time. Doesn't make me right - BUT you have to allow yourself to be a victim. "Victim" is a point of view. Yes, there are bad things that can happen to a person. It's his attitude and what he does in the wake of that action that determines whether or not he's a victim.

[the stranger]

Originally posted by Jode:

However, I am absolutely saying that black pop culture, taken at large, is full of garbage. From the Harlem Renaissance to "Thass juss mah baby'daddy" in less than a century. It is all fucked up, and it is sadder than sad. I am no stranger to black people or their culture, but I have watched their popular culture decline steadily in my lifetime. It peaked with Roots when I was a child, and it has been on a rocket sled to hell ever since.

Black don't have any monopoly on declining culture. So black have two channels of garbage out of how many channels of garbage?

Popular culture has been on the decline, regardless of what culture it represents. Whoever said the media just sells what sells nailed it. It doesn't have anything to do with color, and everything to do with selling the people garbage on every front.

 

Originally posted by Jode:

But the big difference is: white culture doesn't celebrate the trailer park. But hey, give Kid Rock and the like a few more years, and we'll see. (And I like Kid Rock. Maybe this isn't just a black thing, but a human impulse that drives us toward the bottom. The pull of moral gravity?)

Jerry Springer.

[fantasticsound]

I have to agree with Henry and Jode. Jode's last long post was clear as a bell and right on the money, IMO.

 

Black people are not a single group. They do not share common beliefs, religeon, etc. any more than whites. But the overly general heading of "racism" rallies the masses behind national "leaders" who are, only in name.

 

At the same time, a large part of the white majority are not racist. That doesn't mean they don't have prejudices. We all have prejudices. But we don't have to allow them to make us do evil things. The national black leadership create such a frenzy around any real or false occurance of racism that it dilutes the power of a real incident to affect people towards change.

 

I've never mistreated anyone of another race. I HAVE been mistreated by other races simply because I'm white. This is not a common occurance, but it has happened more than a few times in my life. If I acted, as a white, the way Farrakhan gets many blacks to act in the wake of such experiences, I would hate black people.

 

But I don't.

 

I rail against anyone who mistreats another or discriminates based on frivolous reasons such as the color of ones skin or their ethnic origin.

 

White society has the same problems of youth that Cosby's tirade addressed in the Black community. The difference is I and my parents didn't have to fight so much as blacks did to have access to the opportunities to be successful. I can totally understand why Cosby chose, at a celebration of rememberance of victory against racism and discrimination, to demand that those who have benefited should strive to be more than the pop culture says is cool. But make no mistake, there are plenty of white folks who need the same speech, and not just "white trash".

 

Why do you think so many public schools are considering dress codes that include school uniforms. It's not to stop individual creativity. It's to allow kids to use that creativity in areas where it matters for their current and future success.

[henryrobinett]

OK Naw - Clearly I don't get it. I'm an old fart. I'm really not. I feel almost as young as my own kids. I hang out with kids all the time. Young at heart. I can only hope with some - "wise in time" (a song I wrote). But I'm 48 years old. I don't get the saggin'. I don't even get the piercing. I'm a musician and a lot of my friends do it. I'm certainly not in judgement. Don't bother me in the least. But I don't get it. Doesn't interest me. I don't get the expensive shoes my boys want. I buy 'em. Material things generally don't concern me, other than guitars and microphones! Spiritual things concern me. The manner in which we conduct ourselves concern me.

 

So please tell me what I'm missing here Naw. I respect you quite a bit. I think you can articulate this problem that clearly I don't see. How exactly did Bill Cosby's comments offend you so much? What specifically wasn't true, beyond the falsness of his exaggerations? I assume his hyperbole was humor. People have gotten shot in the back of the head for stealing a pound cake. Do you think he made that up? Do you think it's time we started calling on ourselves to start taking more responsibility for our condition or not? Please help me. What can I not see?

[hmurchison]

I support Bill's comments whole heartedly.

 

No black in America has ever ever had to face slavery. America is a country that rewards you handsomely if you are one of the best in your field.

 

Yes you are at a disadvantage if you are lower income but sacrifice and hard work will get you where you want to be.

 

I've gone to school with blacks whites asians latinos. There are brutish kids in every race. Bill is only speaking on the issues that confront the black community and these issues are definitely prevalent. How many "I hate hip hop" threads have we seen here? That's primarily because this genre has distilled down to a ghetto cesspool and is embarassing.

 

I think every black that makes it should give back to their community. Acting like they are absolved from this duty is folly. Look at Hollywood. If you're jewish and have some skills you stand a good chance of having some doors opened for you. Control is power and when you let others control how you are perceived then you have no power.

 

blacks have been beasts of burden too long. It's time to wake up and start making some changes. The NAACP can kiss my azz.

[henryrobinett]

Originally posted by hmurchison:

I support Bill's comments whole heartedly.

 

No black in America has ever ever had to face slavery. America is a country that rewards you handsomely if you are one of the best in your field.

Not true. America rewards some people handsomely in SOME fields if you are one of the best in your field. I can point out many musicians and jazz musicians in particular who are among the very best who can barely make a living.

 

Yes you are at a disadvantage if you are lower income but sacrifice and hard work will get you where you want to be.

It could, maybe. You cannot generalize. You can work your ass off and get nothing. I've seen this too.

 

I think every black that makes it should give back to their community. Acting like they are absolved from this duty is folly. Look at Hollywood. If you're jewish and have some skills you stand a good chance of having some doors opened for you. Control is power and when you let others control how you are perceived then you have no power.

I don't think it's necessarily incumbent upon blacks to help blacks but to help whites and whites help mexicans and mexicans help the french. People - it's humanity not little groups of disparate people.

[Lee Flier]

Right on Henry.

[Groovepusher Sly]

Originally posted by Jeff Da Weasel:

Again, Cosby was very clear who he was addressing. When I was reading it, I found that if I shifted the context slightly, I could hear a person of any race saying many of the things he said. That, really was my point: much of Bill's speech was entirely reminiscent of the classic rant of an older person bemoaning the cultural shift of the youth which they find distasteful or uncomfortable to their generation.

 

On some points it could be an age thing. But not when he's talking about being able to speak english, not wanting to get an education, women having babies out of wedlock, women having babies and not knowing who the father is, mothers AND fathers not parenting their kids, (a lot of them can't because they don't know how, but that's another story), thinking illegal activities are a day job, (and glorifying that behavior in music & videos), etc., etc.

These are sociological and American cultural issues that effect us all, and these things are greatly magnified and intensified in urban minority communities.

Part of the problem is that some people today see these behaviors as normal. There are two or three generations that don't know any better. Dr. Cosby can remember when americans, (particulary black americans) had more sense, morals, and respect for themselves than they do now. I think that Dr. Cosby speaking out on these issues, where ever he does it, is an attempt to start telling it like it is. Simple as that.

Sly

[hmurchison]

I don't think it's necessarily incumbent upon blacks to help blacks but to help whites and whites help mexicans and mexicans help the french. People - it's humanity not little groups of disparate people.

Yes in theory Henry that is true. But America is pretty different by design. We are obsessed with catagorization and structure. As a minority you DO have to unify in some areas. The idiot box is talking to too many of our youth of all ethnicities. Perception is reality and I'm not wrong for wishing to see the perception of black and in particular males to improve. I AM affected by this personally as is all of us within our own respective groups.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by Groovepusher Sly:

On some points it could be an age thing. But not when he's talking about being able to speak english, not wanting to get an education, women having babies out of wedlock, women having babies and not knowing who the father is, mothers AND fathers not parenting their kids, (a lot of them can't because they don't know how, but that's another story), thinking illegal activities are a day job, (and glorifying that behavior in music & videos), etc., etc.

These are sociological and American cultural issues that effect us all, and these things are greatly magnified and intensified in urban minority communities.

Yes indeed. But I think it's with Crosby's age and experience of a more polite (for lack of a better word) era that he has a comparison point from which to draw.

 

I also agree with your well-said statement of it being "greatly magnified and intensified in urban minority communities". However, the behavioral issues are rampant even among white middle- and upper-class kids. honestly, it could be the greatest drawback (and worst legacy) of the "anything goes" era of the late Sixties and Seventies. By having a more permissive upbringing than other generations before it, people honestly don't know what's right or wrong in some cases, because no one led by example.

 

The other element is the glorification of bad behavior, but that's a rant that I have neither time or energy to discuss at the moment.

 

Finally, one thing we do need to be careful about is the seperation of socially positive behavior versus cultural homogenization. This is the area that upsets people. To Cosby, the African-influenced naming of children indicates a negative aspect of modern times, while some people may consider it their right as part of a cultural heritage that shouldn't be blended in with the rest of white society.

 

Tough issue, really. No right or wrong ways to approach some of it.

 

- Jeff

[Groovepusher Sly]

Originally posted by Jeff Da Weasel:

Yes indeed. But I think it's with Crosby's age and experience of a more polite (for lack of a better word) era that he has a comparison point from which to draw.

 

Which Crosby, David or Bing?

 

Just kidding

Sly

[Dan South]

Originally posted by Nawledge:

ok not sure if this is all of it but most of it I think.

 

People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an education, and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around. . . . The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting."

 

"I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit. Where were you when he was 2? Where were you when he was 12? Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn't know that he had a pistol? And where is the father?"

 

"People putting their clothes on backward: Isn't that a sign of something gone wrong? . . . People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn't that a sign of something, or are you waiting for Jesus to pull his pants up? Isn't it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up . . . and got all type of needles (piercing) going through her body? What part of Africa did this come from? We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don't know a . . . thing about Africa."

 

"With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap, and all of them are in jail. Brown versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem. We have got to take the neighborhood back. . . . They are standing on the corner and they can't speak English."

 

"People used to be ashamed. . . . [Today] a woman has eight children with eight different 'husbands,' or men or whatever you call them now."

 

"The idea is to one day get out of the projects. You don't just stay there."

 

"We have millionaire football players who can't read. We have million-dollar basketball players who can't write two paragraphs."

 

"We as black folks have to do a better job. . . . Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us. We have to start holding each other to a higher standard."

 

". . . We cannot blame white people. . . . ."

 

"The incarcerated? These are not political criminals. These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake and then we run out and we are outraged, saying, 'The cops shouldn't have shot him.' What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand?"

 

"

So, what's the problem? Bill Cosby is a Renaissance man in the true meaning of the word: author, comedian, screenwriter, and actor, a well-spoken intellectual who has always risen above race. He was just COOL. Always. I remember 'I Spy'. I remember Bill on Johnny Carson. I remember 'Fat Albert'. I remember his children's programming and his frequent guest appearances on Sesame Street. I remember his monologues on many television programs. The man is brilliant, an example for every thinking person, not just for Blacks or Whites or Asians or fill in your favorite minority here.

 

So, why are you shocked that he takes low-class slobs to task, people who can't speak English or dress themselves properly, much less take on the challenges of raising well-adjusted children or having a career.

 

News flash: In the 50's and 60's, people WERE beaten up (and worse) for trying to get an education. But those people persevered, because they realized the excellence was the ticket to a better future. A lot of people today seem to have forgotten those sacrifices. Education and opportunity are now viewed as entitlements, and people take them for granted; and I'm not just talking about African Americans.

 

What are today's "tickets to a better future?" The Lottery? The proceeds from a lawsuit? A new credit card? I see a lazying down of ALL Americans, not just people of color. Maybe it was Watergate. Maybe we've never regained our national pride after that scandal. Maybe we're all pessimists. Or maybe we've seen too many overnight sensations in the worlds of sports or entertainment, so we assume that, if we have the goods, that life will bring fame and fortune to our door.

 

Mr. Cosby knows that fame and fortune and a successful future are the fruits of vision and dedication, not some lucky roll of the dice, and definitely not some social entitlement.

[Tedly Nightshade]

Um...

 

Slavery exists in the United States today. Some folks are living just like they did in plantation days, and then there's all these sweatshops and that- Lincoln's amendment to the Constitution only specifies that race can not be a criteria for enslaving someone- it in no way rules out enslaving people by any other criteria.

 

By the way, anybody read Kwame Toure (aka Stokely Carmichael) in his autobiography, just out? Really interesting stuff, and one thing you see is that not much has changed since then, and most of what has changed has changed for the worse in a big way. Kwame has a very persuasive case about his deep love for Africa- he spent the rest of his life there after leaving the US in the 60s.

 

HIGHLY recommended!

[CP]

Originally posted by Ted Nightshade:

Um...

 

Slavery exists in the United States today. Some folks are living just like they did in plantation days, and then there's all these sweatshops and that- Lincoln's amendment to the Constitution only specifies that race can not be a criteria for enslaving someone- it in no way rules out enslaving people by any other criteria.

 

By the way, anybody read Kwame Toure (aka Stokely Carmichael) in his autobiography, just out? Really interesting stuff, and one thing you see is that not much has changed since then, and most of what has changed has changed for the worse in a big way. Kwame has a very persuasive case about his deep love for Africa- he spent the rest of his life there after leaving the US in the 60s.

 

HIGHLY recommended!

Thanks Ted. I will definitely check it out.

[henryrobinett]

Originally posted by hmurchison:

But America is pretty different by design. We are obsessed with catagorization and structure.

I reject this out of hand. Categorization may be a habit but it is wrong, wrong wrong and leads to misguided thinking, racism and fuckedupism. It's plain wrong. It's one of he more villainous habits we humans can embark upon.

 

Plus I don't see anything uniquely american about this habit.

 

As a minority you DO have to unify in some areas.

As a minority I don't have to do jack. What areas do I have to unify? We as a people have to unify. As a human people have to unify.

The idiot box is talking to too many of our youth of all ethnicities. Perception is reality and I'm not wrong for wishing to see the perception of black and in particular males to improve. I AM affected by this personally as is all of us within our own respective groups.

I'm not wrong for wanting to see the attitudes of whites improve either. Get me the fuck out of your categorizations. I think that's just plain bullshit. It's not blacks as much as it's ALL OF US. I can work on my group. You work on yours. Or we can work on all of us together. But get off the high horse please. I will not be talked down to.

[henryrobinett]

OK. So I've had my little spat. Nothing going on here folks. Move along now. Everything's alright.