Do you think PC's are practical in today's world?

[Philip OKeefe]

I'm using a similar approach to what Craig described. I keep my main DAW computer (Win XP) completely off the Internet, and NO ONE puts ANY disks into it except for me. And they get scanned immediately. Knock on wood, but it's never been infected with anything. And I back up regularly.

 

I have a second music PC (Win ME ) that gets used for softsynths and Giga - same situation there - completely off the net. My office PC has a dialup connection, but that never gets used either. For internet use, I have a fourth computer, running Win 98 se... if it gets hit (which, despite all the normal precautions, it does from time to time) nothing important goes with it. The kids can use that all they want, but the other PC's are off limits. I do all my downloads and software updates via the internet machine and after virus scanning them, I burn disks and sneakernet them to the other machines. Challenge / response copy protection is a bit harder to deal with than if I was directly accessing the internet via the appropriate machine, but the added security is well worth the extra hassle IMO.

 

In addition to the firewalls and virus protection, get a copy of Norton Ghost. Use it. Thank me later.

[Dak Lander]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

I use Mozilla (Firefox for browsing and Thunderbird for e-mail) and have had no issues with viruses, worms or spyware. Mozilla's email software also has a great spam filter.

 

I use Mozilla, a hardware firewall, avoid the known software containing spyware, and have Windows 2000 installed, and I've never had any real problems.

Lee, you using my computer 'thout me knowin'???

[Jokerelli]

I have had 3 computers since 1991 with very little to complain about. I had a hard drive and a power supply crash and a computer virus at different times on the second one a 350MHZ PII but those were the only major problems in very heavy usage over 13 years.

[trick fall]

It's been crazy lately at work with viruses and network issues. And our IT department is excellent. I had a virus get through twice even though I have the latest updates on whatever virus scan we use and it's always on and now at home my Mac is giving me some attitude! Sometimes I feel like ya can't win.

[Alndln]

My DAW PC's have no internet connection or explorers.My Internet PC has had only 2 incidents(1 virus,1 attempted remote takeover) which were nothing really(wiped out by Norton's).I do notice though that many people around me seem to have a myriad of weird problems on both Mac and PC.I used to build machines and help people a lot,but I got tired of it and these days I just make music and surf the net problem free.If that's not practical then nothing is.if I want to make music I turn my machine on and make music,when I'm finished I shut it off,same with my net PC.Very boring and transparent.That's been my PC world for the last 5 years.Although things have changed,my biggest nightmare with computers were my old Mac(Performa),not my C-64,or Amiga or PC.Iv'e come to the conclusion that people who have problems these days are destined to have them no matter what they use.Small solveable problems are one thing,but a string of show stoppers is indicative of my point.

[phaeton]

.Iv'e come to the conclusion that people who have problems these days are destined to have them no matter what they use.Small solveable problems are one thing,but a string of show stoppers is indicative of my point.

 

Well said, and essentially one of the same points i'm trying to make, though i beat around the bush too much.

[seanh_race]

computers "break" more today becuase of the plethora of software people try to run on them.

 

an old DOS pc ran a few things, one at a time, had no internet connection, and hardware that was all the same spec.

 

todays computers are a mismash of hardware, and software, that everyone expects to work in every combination. they're also running many programs, usually at once, and they're also connected to the internet.

 

the extra complexity is indeed causing PCs to be almost unusable for all but the best computer savvy users.

 

i try to explain it like this... a modern PC is as complicated (more complicated in many ways because of it's open architecture) than your average car. as such, you should expect to have to give it regular maintence. and unless you're a mechanic (computer savvy person) you can't really expect to maintain it yourself. so expect to pay to have it maintianed or make friends with soneone who will do it for you for free.

[Anderton]

<>

 

Excellent point and very well said.

[jcskid]

10 PCs here at work, behind 2 firewalls.

even the DAW and Video box's are on the network.

Explorer on all of them Mozilla on the main use internet computers. we switch back and forth with IE and Moz.

 

Nortons AV on the internet computers.(email ones)

 

never been infected with a virus, or worm.

 

even the 2 home computers including my wifes very "womaned up" computer has never had any virus...

 

now spyware yes. albeit no damage... once a month i run adaware..

 

i dont understand how people do have trouble...

 

Scott

[Rim]

seanh_race beat me to it, but that is a very good point. Comparing the original PC and XT to the computers today are like comparing the tricycle you had as a kid to your average modern car.

 

I actually started on a Mac in college almost 20 years ago and I admit when I first worked on a PC, I was totally clueless. I don't think the PC was designed for your average person. Sure, there've been a lot of strides in making them user- friendly, but apparently, not enough for many folks.

 

Personally, I haven't had a problem that I can remember in over 10 years that I would hold the PC or even Microsoft responsible for. Sure, I've installed one or two bad applications that crashed itself, but nothing major. Of course, as someone said, a lot has to do with knowing what to do and what not to do.

 

[To Duke,]

 

As for yours and your friends' experiences, I don't know if you've been buying the cheap stuff and at least you've bought some used stuff. Name brands are usually more expensive for a good reason - more reliable parts used, more testing done, better support. Also, if you're not that experienced with PCs and Windows, you may not recognize where the source of your problems are and it would be easy to blame it on PCs or Microsoft, which is not always the source of the problem.

 

[end of post directed to Duke]

 

I will agree that Macs are easier to use and are less prone to have problems. But in my very limited experience (1 week of trying to support Macs), I've found it was harder to troubleshoot than a PC. Of course, it could be that my PC experience far outweighs my Mac experience. As far as Linux, I wouldn't call it user-friendly. Sure, it's now fairly easy to load up many Linux distros like RedHat and I guess if you don't need anything else, then you're good. But I think it takes more effort to troubleshoot Linux than the PC.

 

So here's my take on these three OSs: Linux, Mac, Windows

 

Ease of use, in order of easiest to hardest:

Mac

Windows

Linux

 

Cost, in order of most expensive to cheapest:

Mac

Windows

Linux

 

Hmmm, funny how you pay for convenience.

 

So which OS is for you? It depends on your personality. If you don't mind paying for convenience and your time is worth more than money, then Macs may be for you. If you're a tinkerer, love getting under the hood and want new things to be always available, then Linux can be for you. If you're somewhere in between, then Windows may be for you.

[Dylan]

Most of my PC problems over the years were due to flaky hardware. Mainly el-cheapo motherboard/CPU bundles from Frys that were dirt cheap (and for a reason). Ever since upgrading to 2000 and now XP life has been very good to me. I keep all of my boxes online including my DAW and have yet to get a worm or virus. I use a free Yahoo e-mail account for e-mail, which has NAV built-in. I support 300+ users on Outlook and Ive yet to encounter anyone getting a virus that was a direct result of a security hole in the program. We also use a corporate version of NAV for Exchange that scans messages before their distributed to the users e-mail boxes for work. Ive found that if you install all of the Windows critical updates on a regular basis, run Ad-aware once in a while and use a pop-up blocker like the Google toolbar then you are usually going to be fine. Regarding the comments about Macs being more reliable. Ill agree that there are less virus and spyware issues to worry about; however, the hardware reliability factor is going to be the same as any other mainstream. The components used on both platforms are identical these days expect for the motherboard and CPU. The chances of having a hard drive fail on PC are the same with a Mac, etc.

[Thomas Wilburn]

Originally posted by Dylan PDX:

Most of my PC problems over the years were due to flaky hardware. Mainly el-cheapo motherboard/CPU bundles from Frys that were dirt cheap (and for a reason). Ever since upgrading to 2000 and now XP life has been very good to me. I keep all of my boxes online including my DAW and have yet to get a worm or virus. I use a free Yahoo e-mail account for e-mail, which has NAV built-in. I support 300+ users on Outlook and Ive yet to encounter anyone getting a virus that was a direct result of a security hole in the program. We also use a corporate version of NAV for Exchange that scans messages before their distributed to the users e-mail boxes for work. Ive found that if you install all of the Windows critical updates on a regular basis, run Ad-aware once in a while and use a pop-up blocker like the Google toolbar then you are usually going to be fine. Regarding the comments about Macs being more reliable. Ill agree that there are less virus and spyware issues to worry about; however, the hardware reliability factor is going to be the same as any other mainstream. The components used on both platforms are identical these days expect for the motherboard and CPU. The chances of having a hard drive fail on PC are the same with a Mac, etc.

Bingo.

 

Outlook, like any Internet communication program, is exactly as much of a danger as you allow it to be.

[Jeff Leites]

Occasionally weird things happen for reasons I'll never know. With some research, I'm able to get things working right again, but I really don't understand how the average (non technical) person keeps his P/C up and running. I still have a weird problem where horrizontal lines are sometimes missing when using IE (but not any other browser). I'd probably stop using Netscape if I could figure out why.

[Joe Cole]

My wish, that PC's were mature products like a home appliance. Turn on the TV, bang, it's on, change the channel, bang, done.

 

As many have said, if at all possible, keep your DAW away from the internet. I run Cubase VST on a 98 machine, and Sonar on this XP laptop (with external gear), but soon I will be running all my software (including Nuendo 2!!) on a third machine that will never see the net.

[Philip OKeefe]

It's kind of like that clip that someone had linked to regarding tech support - some people are just "12:00 flashers" - every appliance in their house is constantly flashing "12:00" because they're technophobes and can't (or won't) learn how to program the clocks on 'em. No matter how simple they make the technology (and while using a PC - or a Mac for that matter - isn't all THAT hard, it's not that simple either), no matter how well written the manuals are, some people are just going to have a problem with it.

[jcskid]

you talking about me again?

 

alright i confess, i know a puter inside and out but dont know how to program my cell phone or use a PDA. my wife has to do it.

 

i can use the microwave does that count?

 

Scott

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by phaeton:

...Bottom line Neil, is yeah, it fucking sucks, man. I understand your frustration, and i feel your pain. I'm waist-deep in this shit every day and i hate it. I used to adore computers, i used to love video games. But there is just too much pain involved, and it's pain that doesn't have to be there. I don't suffer from these problems myself (I use Linux and FreeBSD), but instead i suffer from everyone else's...

BTW - I've been meaning to ask you Phaeton...

 

What did I say that you're responding to in this quote??

 

I mean, there's at least one other Neil around here (NMcGuitar), but he doesn't post much in the SSS. Mostly the Guitar Forum.

 

I get into plenty of arguements and discussions here... But I'm miffed what I said on a thread I haven't previously replied to.

 

Or... will the other Neil please stand up?

[John Sayers]

I think a PC (or Mac) is similar to your car - if you can't service it yourself regularly you should take it in to be serviced by a professional. Yeah - I'm always being called on to be a free service tech but hey - when you check someones puter and there is 58 megs of critical updates at Microsoft update site you realy wonder why you should bother.

 

We realy have to accept that computers are not infallable - they are sophisticated electronic equipment and like cars need regular, paid for servicing. Firewalls and virus scanners are like seatbelts and good tyres - both necessary to maintain safety standards.

 

cheers

john

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by Joe Cole:

My wish, that PC's were mature products like a home appliance. Turn on the TV, bang, it's on, change the channel, bang, done.

I'm afraid the above statement is a pipe dream.

 

Mature is not the proper term. Simple would be more accurate. TV's are simple The architecture is closed save for a few video and audio inputs and outputs.

 

A TV does what the manufacturer designs it to do. OTOH, computers, almost by definition, are open architecture. The manufacturer doesn't have a clue what you'll be using the computer for. They can't optimize it for your use while making it cost effective by leaving out that which you don't need.

 

And even if they were to create somewhat pre-setup systems, in the end you may be using one of 10 or 15 different types of multi-track software, 2-track editing software, various types of plug-ins... and that's just to handle audio production.

 

Some retail outlets and manufacturers' sales departments have attempted to provide a service to determine your needs and properly setup a system for you, but unless you're prepared to lock in to a specific set of software tools then you will eventually run into some kind of conflict between two or more programs that the sales staff can't begin to be careful to avoid.

 

Not to mention the rate of change in computer technology. Open architecture may create ease of use issues, but it also allows you to upgrade those parts of the computer YOU need to be better than that which you originally purchased. Plus, if your TV breaks, unless it's a particularly expensive set, you're better off chucking it in the trash than to spend well over half it's worth or more to diagnose and repair the problem.

 

If your computer has an equipment failure you may be able to replace the offending hardware or software inexpensively yourself. How many of us know how to repair circuit mounted TV components, LCD or CRT displays? How many TV manufacturers even sell replacement parts that can be replaced by the consumer?

 

This is hardly the whole defense of computers not being plug and play like your TV. Therefore, an easy to use computer will always be based on the software and hardware implementation.

[Raymar]

I've been through a few PCs, an Atari which still works but I can't find a floppy disk drive for it, a couple of PCs, and my current PIII w/W98SE which is on its second hard drive.

 

Recently the thing wouldn't boot up, turned out that the ribbon cable from the HD needed to be pushed down a little bit on the motherboard.

 

I had to do a thorough scandisk a few days back, and that took 28 hours! Then I had to do a serious defrag, now it runs like a champ again. In a few months I'll reformat the drive and re-install everything to get rid of excess crap on the drive.

 

Spyware was a problem but my Earthlink Spyware blocker took care of that, and I haven't had to remove any spyware for weeks now.

[Joe Cole]

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

Originally posted by Joe Cole:

My wish, that PC's were mature products like...

I'm afraid the above statement is a pipe dream.

 

Yeah...I know. But we can always dream.

 

I am very grateful that computers have allowed me to build my modest studio at home for less the one gazillion dollars.

 

The one part of the studio experience that is not so great for a newbie such as I, only 3 years in, is that much time is spent away from the craft of playing an instrument, writing a song, and properly recording it, and spent with figurng out how this "brand new toy" I added to my setup interacts with the rest of the gear.

 

It would be nice to not have limitations though....

 

Now there's a pipe dream.

[Henchman]

Originally posted by Joe Cole:

The one part of the studio experience that is not so great for a newbie such as I, only 3 years in, is that much time is spent away from the craft of playing an instrument, writing a song, and properly recording it, and spent with figurng out how this "brand new toy" I added to my setup interacts with the rest of the gear.

Which is why I tell people who are songwriters to stick with 4-tracks and all-in one solutions like the Roland stuff.

I have seen numerous musicians output plummet through the floor after getting into the computer thing, becasue they think they can learn in a few weeks what really takes years to master.

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by Joe Cole:

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

Originally posted by Joe Cole:

My wish, that PC's were mature products like...

I'm afraid the above statement is a pipe dream.

 

Yeah...I know. But we can always dream.

 

I am very grateful that computers have allowed me to build my modest studio at home for less the one gazillion dollars.

 

The one part of the studio experience that is not so great for a newbie such as I, only 3 years in, is that much time is spent away from the craft of playing an instrument, writing a song, and properly recording it, and spent with figurng out how this "brand new toy" I added to my setup interacts with the rest of the gear.

 

It would be nice to not have limitations though....

 

Now there's a pipe dream.

Yep! That's it in a nutshell.

 

You've just outlined one of two main reasons hardware sequencers and drum machines still exist in MI retail. It's a lot easier to combine a hardware sequencer and hardware synths than it is to combine software sequencers and soft-synths. You'll almost never have a conflict between hardware, but software? Plus, tactile surfaces designed to run the gear are far easier to learn than software menus and typing keys.

[phaeton]

Interestingly, my gf brought over Pink Floyd: Live At Pompeii, and they all give a talk about "becoming slaves to our equipment and gizmos"...

 

 

You ever notice how stuff just comes up ironically by coincidence?

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by phaeton:

Interestingly, my gf brought over Pink Floyd: Live At Pompeii, and they all give a talk about "becoming slaves to our equipment and gizmos"...

 

 

You ever notice how stuff just comes up ironically by coincidence?

Hey, Phaeton...

 

Go back about 3 of my posts for a question..

[LiveMusic]

See, here's another example. Believe me, I know how to save a friggin file. I just opened up a lyric file I've been working on. The damn thing is EMPTY. As in, zero bytes. I am so effin mad, I could scream. How in the hell did it get EMPTY? I have no clue. The good news is that over time I have learned to print out hard copies often. However, I have no digital backup for several days work. A lot can happen lyrically in several days. Yeah, sure, I should backup daily or whatever. But crap like this is stupid. It should know better than to save a friggin empty file that has existed for months.

[phaeton]

The REAL Neil says:

BTW - I've been meaning to ask you Phaeton...

 

What did I say that you're responding to in this quote??

 

Eeep!! I seem to have confused "LiveMusic" with "FantasticSound".

 

Perhaps in my mind, I associate going to see live music in order to enjoy the fantastic sound? (or i could make up a story about how i grew up with 2 identical twin brothers named Duke and Neil)..

 

Oh well.. I blew it. My bad.