MIDI CC range scale/expand

[SHaka40]

Ok MIDI veterans, I'm trying to figure out how to use one control CC number and split

its MIDI range across multiple plugin parameters...

 

For context: I was given an old Hammond XB-2 for close to nothing. Yes it's vintage and doesn't hold a candle to current clonewheels, but I found out that the version 2 firmware apparently added MIDI output from the drawbars...so the plan is to use it as a controller for my DAW. Recording the MIDI to a track, it looks like all 9 drawbars transmit on CC#80...I don't remember specific values, but for example the 16' drawbar transmits values of 52-60...the 8' drawbar transmits 61-69...etc. So when I use MIDI learn for a drawbar in my plugin--I'm using NI B4, or its current version which runs right in Kontakt (Vintage Organs?)--a full drawbar movement only moves the software drawbar one notch.

 

So the goal is the figure out how to "extrapolate"--for lack of a better term-- a MIDI value change of 9 digits, to translate to 0-127 on the software side.

 

I have no idea if this is even possible. I know that within NI's plugin I can scale the MIDI input so that a change of 0 to 128 only changes the software parameter a certain percentage of it's full range. This gives the physical controller a more fine/precise adjustment; it's essentially the opposite of what I need to accomplish...anyone know if it's possible?

[J. Dan]

You'll only have a resolution of 9 either way. Say it transmitted 0-8 and you multiplied by 14. As you moved the slider, you'd get 0, then a jump to 14, 28, 42, 56, 70, 84, 98, 112, 126.

[Reezekeys]

Piece of cake with Plogue Bidule. But you may not want to pay $95 just to do that. The demo runs unrestricted until Jan 7 but it only runs as a stand-alone app so youd need to use virtual midi ports. The paid version runs as a plugin too.

[Tusker]

You are getting excellent advice here. Perhaps your XP-2 also outputs NRPNs which you could harness and convert into CC's using Bidule or something similar?

 

Using something like Midi Ox or MIDI monitor, you might be able to find out what else (if anything) is being sent by the XP-2 when you move the drawbars. Hoping this helps.

 

 

[Markay]

Thats how all HS's, event current ones, send drawbar midi. Logic's Vintage B3 and Acousticsamples B5 (available for Windows and OSX) include premapped HS templates.

[Markyboard]

Assuming it's implemented the same as the XK-3C, each drawbar only transmits 1 CC number over the 9 value range you describe. Drawbar control does receive on 2 different CCs but no NRPNs in play here for transmit or receive.

 

Dan's right - you cant increase your resolution per drawbar.

 

 

[Markyboard]

Thats how all HS's, event current ones, send drawbar midi. Logic's Vintage B3 and Acousticsamples B5 (available for Windows and OSX) include premapped HS templates.

 

XK-5 actually does it right.

[Markay]

Wot, use up all those other CC's on one per drawbar? They must be getting lazy.

[Markyboard]

Thankfully.

[Tom Williams]

With 127 CCs available, it sounds to me like HS intentionally made it hard for their stuff to interact with other keyboards and/or modules. Naughty, naughty.

[hardware]

MIDI Translator Pro isnt free but whatever you can dream up it will do.

Bidule is also good too.

 

What I like about Scope DSP MIDI Devices and Bomes MIDI Translator Pro are the treatments like Curve Modifiers, and Lag Processors, etc.

 

I can send a single CC# from an Expression Pedal, knob, switcher button and make drawbar movements just by stomping on the pedal or pushing a button, faders move from start to destination at the rate of speed I want, etc.

9 buttons on my K4 Controller make it easy to set drawbar combination presets.

Take out 16/5 @ 1/4, + 8 for that Santana Caravannsierra Sound, etc.

 

If youre going to mess around with MIDI make it work for you.

Its so far advanced now with 3 rd party apps, 38 years and still reigns supreme.

Touch OSC is nice, but if you play multiple parts having to screw around with an iPads surface takes away a hand.

Nice convenience for a sound man or for editing, but MIDI is the performers best friend.

[J. Dan]

Plenty of ways to do it with software or even MIDI solutions boxes, but as I said earlier, you will only have 9 values transmitted from each drawbar. Those values can be sent on any CC you want over any range you want, but you will still only get 9 values transmitted. I doubt that's what you had in mind.

[Reezekeys]

you will still only get 9 values transmitted. I doubt that's what you had in mind.

I think Sean just wants to control the drawbars on NIs B4. That could be exactly what he had in mind. Depends if B4 uses all 0-127 values or does its own quantizing to the nine drawbar values (I wouldnt know but I bet Sean does).

[J. Dan]

Certainly reasonable consideration. I somehow interpreted it as being a control surface for multiple DAW plugins but I could certainly be wrong. Every authentic clonewheel only has 9 authentic values per drawbar, so that could work if that's the intended use!

[mauriziodececco]

Just another option: if you use Logic or Mainstage, you can write a little JavaScript script that remap the controllers in any way you want, including remapping them to different controller numbers.

 

OK, you need to know how to code in JavaScript ...

 

Maurizio

[Markay]

With 127 CCs available, it sounds to me like HS intentionally made it hard for their stuff to interact with other keyboards and/or modules. Naughty, naughty.

No different to any other hardware manufacturer like Roland or Casio that use midi as they choose to control their internal sound engine. Many send note only data to midi out.

 

I don't recall any past claims from HS suggesting their products are designed to be midi controllers intended to run 3rd party software.

[Markay]

The issue the OP has if they wish to use a midi translator they need to be able to map the following:

 

Using the OP's example

 

For the 16' drawbar:

 

CC#80 value 52 mapped to say CC#21 value = 0,

CC#80 value 60 mapped to say CC#21 value = 127

With the CC#80 values 53, 54, 55 thru to 59 converted to equal increments between 0 and 127 for CC#21.

 

Then for 5 1/3 drawbar;

 

CC#80 value 62 mapped to CC#22 value = 0

CC#80 value 70 mapped to CC#22 value = 127

With the CC#80 values 63, 64, 65 thru to 69 converted to equal increments between 0 and 127 for CC#22

 

And so on for the other 7 drawbars.

 

I found it much easier and simpler to just use the template that the good folks at Acousticsamples provide with B5 with all the heavy lifting done.

[Markyboard]

MIDI Translator Pro isnt free but whatever you can dream up it will do.

Bidule is also good too.

 

Every time I've had need for one of these tools I quickly realize they don't work as a plugin to my DAW software. If the OP uses B4 in MainStage or similar this may be an issue.

 

I don't recall any past claims from HS suggesting their products are designed to be midi controllers intended to run 3rd party software.

 

I'm sure you also don't recall any past claims from Markyboard that he wouldn't complain about it incessantly.

[Markay]

You need to move on and focus on the big issues, like a holiday involving a long flight with warm weather and new frontiers to explore on arrival.

[Markyboard]

Damn...now that's hitting below the (equatorial) belt.

[SHaka40]

OP here...So Reezekeys is correct, I'm only trying to figure out how to control B4's drawbars...so I really don't need more than 9 MIDI values from the physical drawbars...it's just figuring out how to map/translate those 9 values to work with NI's software.

 

If the drawbars were each on a different CC, it would be fairly straightforward. For the example I gave in the OP, if drawbar 1 transmits values 52-60...I would simply convert: 52=0...53=14 (or whatever NI interprets as drawbar setting '1')...54=28 (or whatever NI interprets as a drawbar '2')...and so on. But then what to do with the other drawbars? I would need to not only do the math above, but also reassign CC numbers...so MIDI values 51-59 get translated as above and stay on CC80...MIDI values 61-69 (physical drawbar #2) get translated to the same new values as above but reassigned to CC81 so it doesn't effect plugin drawbar #1...MIDI values 70-78 get the same translation but reassigned to CC82...and so on

 

Can any of the software solutions that have been mentioned thus far do this?...or am I missing something? I don't typically use MIDI beyond regular plug n' play...so it's entirely possible I'm misunderstanding the basics.

 

-Thanks

[SHaka40]

Just realized Markay posted pretty much exactly what I posted as far as what I'm ultimately trying to accomplish and what would need to be translated...so yeah...what he said

[Reezekeys]

OP here...So Reezekeys is correct, I'm only trying to figure out how to control B4's drawbars...so I really don't need more than 9 MIDI values from the physical drawbars...it's just figuring out how to map/translate those 9 values to work with NI's software.

 

[......]

 

I would need to not only do the math above, but also reassign CC numbers...so MIDI values 51-59 get translated as above and stay on CC80...MIDI values 61-69 (physical drawbar #2) get translated to the same new values as above but reassigned to CC81 so it doesn't effect plugin drawbar #1...MIDI values 70-78 get the same translation but reassigned to CC82...and so on

 

Can any of the software solutions that have been mentioned thus far do this?

Yes, Bidule. Its not very easy for a newb (theres no real manual or other documentation- just an out-of-date help file). I could work something up for you quickly though. Id just need the info on exactly what values are going in and what values you need to see coming out.